SmashCAP 3: Typing Discussion

[Wave⁂]

SmashCAP3 - Type Submission

Fire / Ice

tl;dr: this typing is incredibly bad defensively and incredibly good offensively.


Defensive
Resistances: Ice (x2), Grass, Bug
Weaknesses: Ground, Rock (x2), Water, Fighting

Defensively, this Pokemon is a wreck. Bug is fairly uncommon attacking types; switching into resisted attacks will be difficult. Grass is a move type that might only be seen once once on a team, usually solely for Swampert. The double Ice weakness, however, is more useful. Ice attacks are on all teams because they check the beasts that are Salamence and Gliscor. It would be fairly easy to switch into Scarf Jirachi's Ice Punch, Weavile and Mamoswine's Ice Shard, Starmie's Ice Beam... the list goes on and on.

Weaknesses to Ground, Rock, Water, and Fighting are all quite horrible. Ground, in the form of Earthquake, is the most commonly used move in the game. Stealth Rock cuts this Pokémon's HP in half upon switching in; Rapid Spin support is very useful. Any other Rock attacks will OHKO this Pokémon. Water, found in Surf and Waterfall, makes up roughly 15% of all offensive attacks. A Fighting weakness is also bad. Close Combat and Superpower both hover between 5 and 6% of all used moves.

The faint light that shines behind these weaknesses are its teammates. Many Pokémon are immune to Ground and Fighting attacks. Vaporeon stands alone as an OU Pokémon who is immune to Water; Quagsire and Poliwrath are two less common Water Absorbent Pokémon. As previously stated, Stealth Rocks can be Rapid Spun away.


Offensive
Super-effective: Bug, Grass, Ice, Steel, Dragon, Flying, Ground (one or both)
Ineffective: Fire, Water (both)

Offensively, the Fire / Ice typing is simply amazing. Steel, Flying, and Dragon are all very common types, and are all hit super-effectively. Less common, but still often seen in OU, are the Ground and Bug Pokémon. The Pokemon who resist the offensive combination essentially boils down to Heatran and bulky waters. The glass cannon that is Infernape is excluded. Bulky Waters could be dealt with by moves such as Thunderpunch, Thunderbolt, Leaf Blade, or Hidden Power. Scarf Heatran has a ridiculous weakness in that being locked into a move is very bad because its common move's typings are offensively weak. Non-Scarf Heatran are easily outsped and OHKOed by the likes of Infernape, Flygon, and Swampert.

Going even more in-depth, this Pokémon has "anti-metagame" merits. Scizor, Salamence, Latias, Jirachi, and Metagross are are hit super-effectively by this Pokémon's STAB attacks. Those who aren't harmed by a Fire / Ice combination, such as Tyranitar, Swampert, and Gyarados, are maimed by Grass or Electric attacks, which one would obviously carry for damaging bulky Waters. Then there are Pokémon like Gengar and Infernape who are OHKOed by almost anything.

 

[ss118]

Give it wonder guard and a fire-type pursuit.

Go die, Scizor.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Current submissions
Tery's Fighting / Ice
Annoying's Fire / Ice

Also, enough with the Wonder Guard. As hilarious as that would be the point is to make Zook a fun yet completely usable Pokemon, not a "Hey I'ma bring in my Dragon / Fighting Pokemon with Wonder Guard with unresisted coverage and lololol on your team" Pokemon.

Also, the type submission does not have to be an offensive route, like many things, each submission is unique and up to you. Your submission reflects the way you want SmashCAP 3 to turn out.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Wait, who said Zook would be WonderTomb? If we give him Wonder Guard, he'll have some spectacularly bad typing like Fire / Ice or something.

 

[UltiMario]

Either typing is terrible defensively.

So it doesn't really matter.

Unless another legitimate idea is brought in that's a good defensive typing

 

[JOE!]

Well, heres a silly one:

Rock/Bug (with wondergaurd)

only can be hit by Water, Steel and (ironically) Rock

along with the typing comes interesting coverage from both bug and rock fronts....

 

[UltiMario]

Rock/Bug offensive coverage:

SE: Grass, Psychic, Dark, Fire, Ice, Flying, Bug (both)
NVE: Fire, (1/4)Fighting, Poison, Flying, Ghost, (1/4)Steel, Ground (Both)

If by "interesting" you mean "mostly useless", then yes, it sure is interesting.

 

[JOE!]

ok...

then tell me wtf are we aiming for here?

 

[Circa]

My submission - Normal / ???

Special Note: The ability, whatever it's named, will function like a Trace for typing. Upon switching in, its secondary type will become that of the opposing Pokemon's primary type. In the event that it tries to copy a Pokemon of the primary Normal type, it gains no secondary typing and this ability functions in the same way as Adaptability. This activates just after switching in, so Stealth Rock damage is a constant neutral no matter what the secondary type becomes. Also, because there are no primary Flying-types outside of Arceus, it should be noted that this Pokemon will never become Normal/Flying when used outside of Ubers.

Offense (Definite type)
Super Effective - N/A
Not Very Effective - Rock, Steel
Immune - Ghost

Defense (Definite type)
Weaknesses - Fighting
Resistances - N/A
Immunities - Ghost
* - Takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock

This was actually an idea I had a long while ago for a Kecleon evolution that could actually function in a standard competitive environment. Although this is a gimmick, it's not what you would necessarily consider a bad gimmick. In fact, I'd say it's quite the opposite. The mixture of being Normal-type and also being given the ability to become every other possible type in the game (bar Flying at this point in time) allows us to give it a ridiculously diverse movepool, possibly rivaling even that of Arceus. Now, why isn't this broken beyond belief? Well to put it quite simply, because we actually have control over it.

This is kind of a hard concept to actually explain the usefulness of past just 'movepool', and I don't think I quite have the time to try either. I just think it's a good idea for a Zook Pokemon. It's both creative and unique, and definitely something fun for us to mess with as we try to make a gimmick that is actually usable in OU. A single set could function in a completely different manner, just because of what its secondary typing becomes. Even something as simple as a mixed sweeper set, which would be meant to run great no matter what its secondary typing becomes, could function differently or gain some necessary KOs just by picking up a specific secondary STAB (or nabbing the 'Adaptability' boost). It's a mixture of fun and serious with a good amount of depth, which is what I believe this specific CAP needs to be.

Also, the reason why I chose Normal as opposed to some other typing is because it's a decent medium for everything, which gives it at least some sort of consistency. It probably won't matter much offensively (considering how its movepool will likely be), but in the event that you want to run a defensive set it would probably be really nice to have that consistency going for you. Also, Zook is a person, which is normal.

Idk. Love it or hate it, that was my idea. I was hoping to talk about typings and other such things, and how each could help or hinder it, but something unexpected came up that will likely take me the rest of the day to do.

 

[Wave⁂]

Good potential in the metagame as a Dragon / Rotom-A / Gengar counter.

 

[Riddle]

Final Submission

Dark/Fighting. Amazing type coverage access to priority good for wall breaking. With high special attack and Nasty Plot its basically the ultimate wallbreaker.

 

[Circa]

Good potential in the metagame as a Dragon / Rotom-A / Gengar counter.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the Dragon counter, but I knew it could basically **** Rotom-A and Gengar so long as it was given the stats to do so.

And it sort of grants Zook's wish to be Normal/Ghost, which is cool too.

 

[mood4food77]

normal/ghost with levitate would be a pretty legit defensive typing

 

[Wave⁂]

normal/ghost with levitate would be a pretty legit defensive typing

Yeah, legit in the same way the Dark / Ghost is legit.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Type Submissions
Tery's Fighting / Ice
Annoying's Fire / Ice
Writer's Normal / ???

Riddle, I'd just like for you to write out the details behind your submission, like the others.

I think we could get the poll up by tonight, what do you guys think?

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

I like how they have the type chart working out so if you make any pair with 3+ immunities you're going to have not many resistances.

 

[mood4food77]

i mean, 4 immunities is nothing to scoff at

ghost/steel has a good amount of resistances

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Deadline for all typing submissions (see Tery's, Annoying's Writer's examples) are due tomorrow 5/18 at ~4:00 PM Eastern

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Would someone care the make a public poll to decide on SmashCAP 3's typing:

Terywj
[collapse=Fighting/Ice]My submission - Fighting / Ice

Offense (Both types)
Super Effective - Normal, Ice, Rock, Steel, Dark, Dragon, Flying, Grass, Ground
Not Very Effective - Bug, Flying, Psychic, Poison, Fire, Ice, Steel, Water
Immune - Ghost

Defense (Both types)
Weaknesses - Psychic, Flying, Steel, Fighting, Fire
Resistances - Bug, Dark, Ice
Immunities - N/A
*- Takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock

The most pressing concern is the weakness to Steel, meaning Scizor can switch-in and Bullet Punch the life out of SmashCAP 3. However, paired with a strong movepool, a mixed set with Fire Punch could force Scizor into some mindgames. Also, utilizing a strong Special Attack score, and preying on Scizor's weak Special Defense stat with a STAB Fighting-type move can also help out SmashCAP 3. That aside, the Fighting-, Flying-, and Psychic-type weaknesses aren't immediately threatening due to the scarcity of Psychic- and Flying-type moves, but a weakness to Fire-types is also a letdown. Fighting / Ice trades off great offensive capability for poor defensive type combination.

Offensively SmashCAP 3 is no pushover - being able to score supereffective hits against 9 different types, including Dragon, Steel, and Flying. SmashCAP 3 will be able to threaten Pokemon like Salamence, Tyranitar, Gliscor, Flygon, and Breloom with its supereffective STAB moves. Also, if we orient SmashCAP 3 to that of a special attack, preying on these Pokemon's weaker Special Defense stat will also benefit it.[/collapse]

Annoying1359
[collapse=Fire/Ice]Fire / Ice

tl;dr: this typing is incredibly bad defensively and incredibly good offensively.


Defensive
Resistances: Ice (x2), Grass, Bug
Weaknesses: Ground, Rock (x2), Water, Fighting

Defensively, this Pokemon is a wreck. Bug is fairly uncommon attacking types; switching into resisted attacks will be difficult. Grass is a move type that might only be seen once once on a team, usually solely for Swampert. The double Ice weakness, however, is more useful. Ice attacks are on all teams because they check the beasts that are Salamence and Gliscor. It would be fairly easy to switch into Scarf Jirachi's Ice Punch, Weavile and Mamoswine's Ice Shard, Starmie's Ice Beam... the list goes on and on.

Weaknesses to Ground, Rock, Water, and Fighting are all quite horrible. Ground, in the form of Earthquake, is the most commonly used move in the game. Stealth Rock cuts this Pokémon's HP in half upon switching in; Rapid Spin support is very useful. Any other Rock attacks will OHKO this Pokémon. Water, found in Surf and Waterfall, makes up roughly 15% of all offensive attacks. A Fighting weakness is also bad. Close Combat and Superpower both hover between 5 and 6% of all used moves.

The faint light that shines behind these weaknesses are its teammates. Many Pokémon are immune to Ground and Fighting attacks. Vaporeon stands alone as an OU Pokémon who is immune to Water; Quagsire and Poliwrath are two less common Water Absorbent Pokémon. As previously stated, Stealth Rocks can be Rapid Spun away.


Offensive
Super-effective: Bug, Grass, Ice, Steel, Dragon, Flying, Ground (one or both)
Ineffective: Fire, Water (both)

Offensively, the Fire / Ice typing is simply amazing. Steel, Flying, and Dragon are all very common types, and are all hit super-effectively. Less common, but still often seen in OU, are the Ground and Bug Pokémon. The Pokemon who resist the offensive combination essentially boils down to Heatran and bulky waters. The glass cannon that is Infernape is excluded. Bulky Waters could be dealt with by moves such as Thunderpunch, Thunderbolt, Leaf Blade, or Hidden Power. Scarf Heatran has a ridiculous weakness in that being locked into a move is very bad because its common move's typings are offensively weak. Non-Scarf Heatran are easily outsped and OHKOed by the likes of Infernape, Flygon, and Swampert.

Going even more in-depth, this Pokémon has "anti-metagame" merits. Scizor, Salamence, Latias, Jirachi, and Metagross are are hit super-effectively by this Pokémon's STAB attacks. Those who aren't harmed by a Fire / Ice combination, such as Tyranitar, Swampert, and Gyarados, are maimed by Grass or Electric attacks, which one would obviously carry for damaging bulky Waters. Then there are Pokémon like Gengar and Infernape who are OHKOed by almost anything.[/collapse]

Writer
[collapse=Normal/???]My submission - Normal / ???

Special Note: The ability, whatever it's named, will function like a Trace for typing. Upon switching in, its secondary type will become that of the opposing Pokemon's primary type. In the event that it tries to copy a Pokemon of the primary Normal type, it gains no secondary typing and this ability functions in the same way as Adaptability. This activates just after switching in, so Stealth Rock damage is a constant neutral no matter what the secondary type becomes. Also, because there are no primary Flying-types outside of Arceus, it should be noted that this Pokemon will never become Normal/Flying when used outside of Ubers.

Offense (Definite type)
Super Effective - N/A
Not Very Effective - Rock, Steel
Immune - Ghost

Defense (Definite type)
Weaknesses - Fighting
Resistances - N/A
Immunities - Ghost
* - Takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock

This was actually an idea I had a long while ago for a Kecleon evolution that could actually function in a standard competitive environment. Although this is a gimmick, it's not what you would necessarily consider a bad gimmick. In fact, I'd say it's quite the opposite. The mixture of being Normal-type and also being given the ability to become every other possible type in the game (bar Flying at this point in time) allows us to give it a ridiculously diverse movepool, possibly rivaling even that of Arceus. Now, why isn't this broken beyond belief? Well to put it quite simply, because we actually have control over it.

This is kind of a hard concept to actually explain the usefulness of past just 'movepool', and I don't think I quite have the time to try either. I just think it's a good idea for a Zook Pokemon. It's both creative and unique, and definitely something fun for us to mess with as we try to make a gimmick that is actually usable in OU. A single set could function in a completely different manner, just because of what its secondary typing becomes. Even something as simple as a mixed sweeper set, which would be meant to run great no matter what its secondary typing becomes, could function differently or gain some necessary KOs just by picking up a specific secondary STAB (or nabbing the 'Adaptability' boost). It's a mixture of fun and serious with a good amount of depth, which is what I believe this specific CAP needs to be.

Also, the reason why I chose Normal as opposed to some other typing is because it's a decent medium for everything, which gives it at least some sort of consistency. It probably won't matter much offensively (considering how its movepool will likely be), but in the event that you want to run a defensive set it would probably be really nice to have that consistency going for you. Also, Zook is a person, which is normal.

Idk. Love it or hate it, that was my idea. I was hoping to talk about typings and other such things, and how each could help or hinder it, but something unexpected came up that will likely take me the rest of the day to do.[/collapse]

 

[Circa]

Would someone care the make a public poll to decide on SmashCAP 3's typing:

Terywj
[collapse=Fighting/Ice]My submission - Fighting / Ice

Offense (Both types)
Super Effective - Normal, Ice, Rock, Steel, Dark, Dragon, Flying, Grass, Ground
Not Very Effective - Bug, Flying, Psychic, Poison, Fire, Ice, Steel, Water
Immune - Ghost

Defense (Both types)
Weaknesses - Psychic, Flying, Steel, Fighting, Fire
Resistances - Bug, Dark, Ice
Immunities - N/A
*- Takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock

The most pressing concern is the weakness to Steel, meaning Scizor can switch-in and Bullet Punch the life out of SmashCAP 3. However, paired with a strong movepool, a mixed set with Fire Punch could force Scizor into some mindgames. Also, utilizing a strong Special Attack score, and preying on Scizor's weak Special Defense stat with a STAB Fighting-type move can also help out SmashCAP 3. That aside, the Fighting-, Flying-, and Psychic-type weaknesses aren't immediately threatening due to the scarcity of Psychic- and Flying-type moves, but a weakness to Fire-types is also a letdown. Fighting / Ice trades off great offensive capability for poor defensive type combination.

Offensively SmashCAP 3 is no pushover - being able to score supereffective hits against 9 different types, including Dragon, Steel, and Flying. SmashCAP 3 will be able to threaten Pokemon like Salamence, Tyranitar, Gliscor, Flygon, and Breloom with its supereffective STAB moves. Also, if we orient SmashCAP 3 to that of a special attack, preying on these Pokemon's weaker Special Defense stat will also benefit it.[/collapse]

Annoying1359
[collapse=Fire/Ice]Fire / Ice

tl;dr: this typing is incredibly bad defensively and incredibly good offensively.


Defensive
Resistances: Ice (x2), Grass, Bug
Weaknesses: Ground, Rock (x2), Water, Fighting

Defensively, this Pokemon is a wreck. Bug is fairly uncommon attacking types; switching into resisted attacks will be difficult. Grass is a move type that might only be seen once once on a team, usually solely for Swampert. The double Ice weakness, however, is more useful. Ice attacks are on all teams because they check the beasts that are Salamence and Gliscor. It would be fairly easy to switch into Scarf Jirachi's Ice Punch, Weavile and Mamoswine's Ice Shard, Starmie's Ice Beam... the list goes on and on.

Weaknesses to Ground, Rock, Water, and Fighting are all quite horrible. Ground, in the form of Earthquake, is the most commonly used move in the game. Stealth Rock cuts this Pokémon's HP in half upon switching in; Rapid Spin support is very useful. Any other Rock attacks will OHKO this Pokémon. Water, found in Surf and Waterfall, makes up roughly 15% of all offensive attacks. A Fighting weakness is also bad. Close Combat and Superpower both hover between 5 and 6% of all used moves.

The faint light that shines behind these weaknesses are its teammates. Many Pokémon are immune to Ground and Fighting attacks. Vaporeon stands alone as an OU Pokémon who is immune to Water; Quagsire and Poliwrath are two less common Water Absorbent Pokémon. As previously stated, Stealth Rocks can be Rapid Spun away.


Offensive
Super-effective: Bug, Grass, Ice, Steel, Dragon, Flying, Ground (one or both)
Ineffective: Fire, Water (both)

Offensively, the Fire / Ice typing is simply amazing. Steel, Flying, and Dragon are all very common types, and are all hit super-effectively. Less common, but still often seen in OU, are the Ground and Bug Pokémon. The Pokemon who resist the offensive combination essentially boils down to Heatran and bulky waters. The glass cannon that is Infernape is excluded. Bulky Waters could be dealt with by moves such as Thunderpunch, Thunderbolt, Leaf Blade, or Hidden Power. Scarf Heatran has a ridiculous weakness in that being locked into a move is very bad because its common move's typings are offensively weak. Non-Scarf Heatran are easily outsped and OHKOed by the likes of Infernape, Flygon, and Swampert.

Going even more in-depth, this Pokémon has "anti-metagame" merits. Scizor, Salamence, Latias, Jirachi, and Metagross are are hit super-effectively by this Pokémon's STAB attacks. Those who aren't harmed by a Fire / Ice combination, such as Tyranitar, Swampert, and Gyarados, are maimed by Grass or Electric attacks, which one would obviously carry for damaging bulky Waters. Then there are Pokémon like Gengar and Infernape who are OHKOed by almost anything.[/collapse]

Writer
[collapse=Normal/???]My submission - Normal / ???

Special Note: The ability, whatever it's named, will function like a Trace for typing. Upon switching in, its secondary type will become that of the opposing Pokemon's primary type. In the event that it tries to copy a Pokemon of the primary Normal type, it gains no secondary typing and this ability functions in the same way as Adaptability. This activates just after switching in, so Stealth Rock damage is a constant neutral no matter what the secondary type becomes. Also, because there are no primary Flying-types outside of Arceus, it should be noted that this Pokemon will never become Normal/Flying when used outside of Ubers.

Offense (Definite type)
Super Effective - N/A
Not Very Effective - Rock, Steel
Immune - Ghost

Defense (Definite type)
Weaknesses - Fighting
Resistances - N/A
Immunities - Ghost
* - Takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock

This was actually an idea I had a long while ago for a Kecleon evolution that could actually function in a standard competitive environment. Although this is a gimmick, it's not what you would necessarily consider a bad gimmick. In fact, I'd say it's quite the opposite. The mixture of being Normal-type and also being given the ability to become every other possible type in the game (bar Flying at this point in time) allows us to give it a ridiculously diverse movepool, possibly rivaling even that of Arceus. Now, why isn't this broken beyond belief? Well to put it quite simply, because we actually have control over it.

This is kind of a hard concept to actually explain the usefulness of past just 'movepool', and I don't think I quite have the time to try either. I just think it's a good idea for a Zook Pokemon. It's both creative and unique, and definitely something fun for us to mess with as we try to make a gimmick that is actually usable in OU. A single set could function in a completely different manner, just because of what its secondary typing becomes. Even something as simple as a mixed sweeper set, which would be meant to run great no matter what its secondary typing becomes, could function differently or gain some necessary KOs just by picking up a specific secondary STAB (or nabbing the 'Adaptability' boost). It's a mixture of fun and serious with a good amount of depth, which is what I believe this specific CAP needs to be.

Also, the reason why I chose Normal as opposed to some other typing is because it's a decent medium for everything, which gives it at least some sort of consistency. It probably won't matter much offensively (considering how its movepool will likely be), but in the event that you want to run a defensive set it would probably be really nice to have that consistency going for you. Also, Zook is a person, which is normal.

Idk. Love it or hate it, that was my idea. I was hoping to talk about typings and other such things, and how each could help or hinder it, but something unexpected came up that will likely take me the rest of the day to do.[/collapse]

Sure, I'll make it.

 

[Greenstreet]

Ability discussion now?

 

[Greenstreet]

Ability discussion now?

Ergh, sorry for the double post.

Regardless of my ability to check whether my post did in fact show up, here are some abilities that are worth thinking about:

• Mold Breaker
• Compoundeyes (although hard to justify when it's not a bug type)
• Scrappy (makes him overpowered maybeh?)
• Tinted Lens
• Simple
• Solid Rock (once again, a little hard to justify, and may result in brokenness)
• Clear body

Just a list of some of the more interesting abilities, but not necessarily broken abilities.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Abilities thread will be a new thread, in order to keep everything we need fresh and organized.

Also, ability discussion will not take place until after the typing poll is complete.

Requesting the close.
Edit - And move.