SmashCAP 3: Offensive Move Discussion

[Terywj [태리]]

[SmashCAP 3]
Start date: 5/15/10
End date: --/--/--
Concept: The Zook Concept
Type: Normal / ???
Stat Spread: 100 / 55 / 60 / 140 / 90 / 70

Basically, discuss all comptitive attacking moves you think SmashCAP 1 should or shouldn't have, and explain in your post as to why. Flavor posts should and will be ignored.

To make it easier for the whole of the community...please submit moves for the following 3 categories: "allowed," "controversial," and "unallowed."

Allowed
Thunderbolt
Aura Sphere
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball
Shadow Claw
Energy Ball
Ice Beam
Hidden Power
Tri Attack
Psychic
Flash Cannon
Mirror Shot
Poison Tail
Hyper Voice
Dark Pulse
Mirror Coat
Iron Head
Signal Beam
Iron Tail

Something helpful - http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1923214&postcount=34

Remember all global forum rules apply! Have fun brainstorming!

 

[rockem7]

Allowed: Mirror Shot, Iron Tail, Shadow Ball, Aura Sphere.

Mirror Shot: He's a Special Attacker, and he is covered with mirrors.

Iron Tail: Although mirrors are made of glass, his tail looks like it'd work for Iron Tail, in case for whatever reason you needed a physical attack.

Shadow Ball: Again with the Special Attack, and he looks more like a Dark/Steel type imo so maybe his movepool would kind of focus on that aspect?

Aura Sphere: A decent Special Attack that would allow him to hit Super Effective on Blissey if need be, and he is holding a ball of aura in the first place.

Controversial: Although his defenses aren't super good, he should get Counter and Mirror Coat.

The explanation is kind of the same for both of them, the mirrors on his body allow for him to to use Mirror Coat and to Counter an opponent's attack.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Flavor posts should and will be ignored.

Regardless, I see Mirror Shot being one of those moves that will be given that it won't be using on the more competitive sets.

I'll list more stuff later.

 

[Wave⁂]

Unallowed:

Nasty Plot, since it kills everything

 

[Fuelbi]

Allowed:

Fake Out

Easy hit first switch, no matter how little damage it actually causes and ruins Focus Sash pokemon

 

[Wave⁂]

Disallowed:

Fake Out: No set would run it. Lead? Well, everything with a Sash outspeeds you anyways.

 

[UltiMario]

Allowed: Tri Attack

This thing needs some good STAB srsly

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Why not just make Fake Out allowed for coverage (movepool-wise) sake? It's not going to really use it, so it can act as filler on Egg moves or level-up moves.

 

[Charmander]

Well, I had a list of moves prepared, but its a biiiiit diverse.....




Allowed: Bide, constrict, Copycat, camouflage, Double Edge, Fake Out, Flash, Follow Me, Giga Impact, Glare, Harden, Hidden power, Hyper beam, Mimic, Protect, Return, Rock climb, Safeguard, Slash, Strength, Fire blast, Flamethrower, Fire punch, Aqua tail, Thunder wave, thunder punch, thunderbolt, thunder, zap cannon, Solar beam, Energy ball, Ice beam, Aura sphere, drain punch, Acid armor, Earthquake, Defog, Mirror move, barrier , calm mind, light screen, Magic coat, Mirror coat, Psychic, reflect, Signal beam, Stone edge, Shadow ball, shadow sneak, shadow punch, shadow claw, Twister, Dark pulse, Night slash, Sucker punch, Flash cannon, Iron head, iron tail, iron defense, mirror shot.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

Well, I had a list of moves prepared, but its a biiiiit diverse.....




Allowed: Bide, constrict, Copycat, camouflage, Double Edge, Fake Out, Flash, Follow Me, Giga Impact, Glare, Harden, Hidden power, Hyper beam, Mimic, Protect, Return, Rock climb, Safeguard, Slash, Strength, Fire blast, Flamethrower, Fire punch, Aqua tail, Thunder wave, thunder punch, thunderbolt, thunder, zap cannon, Solar beam, Energy ball, Ice beam, Aura sphere, drain punch, Acid armor, Earthquake, Defog, Mirror move, barrier , calm mind, light screen, Magic coat, Mirror coat, Psychic, reflect, Signal beam, Stone edge, Shadow ball, shadow sneak, shadow punch, shadow claw, Twister, Dark pulse, Night slash, Sucker punch, Flash cannon, Iron head, iron tail, iron defense, mirror shot.

I bolded the ones that I thought were controversial. For some reason, I fear giving it Flamethrower/Ice Beam/T-Bolt, but then I remember this is supposed to be a power house.

 

[rockem7]

Iron Head should be there for about the same reason that Iron Tail should be. It's hard to say that one is controversial but not the other.

And Encore should also be a possible move.

 

[UltiMario]

I refuse to allow you to give a Pokemon with infinite possibilities Encore.

 

[Wave⁂]

Why not just make Fake Out allowed for coverage (movepool-wise) sake? It's not going to really use it, so it can act as filler on Egg moves or level-up moves.

Wynaut just give it every ****ing move out there?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Wynaut just give it every ****ing move out there?

Okay then. I will stop making posts like those if it causes people to just randomly swear.

Tri Attack has already been discussed as a must, and even before these discussions started we've been pairing SmashCAP 3 alongside it. Tri Attack provides a strong STAB.

Dark Pulse gives roundabout coverage, hitting Ghost-types hoping to switch into Tri Attack with impunity.

Aura Sphere completes coverage by horribly denting Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon.

 

[UltiMario]

Shadow Ball for better chance of it being STAB, actually.

Also, we could opt for Hyper Voice, which has even MORE power than Tri-Attack, being the 3rd most (potentially) powerful Special Normal move.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Hyper Voice seems more fitting to the concept, actually.

Plus the flavor compliment is a bonus.
I'll go edit some stuffs now.

 

[Wave⁂]

Dark Pulse's only selling point is hitting Normal types.

 

[UltiMario]

We have Aura Sphere for that.

:V

I'd also like to mention that Nasty Plot isn't an offensive move.

 

[UltiMario]

Lol Double post

 

[Wave⁂]

I'd also like to mention that Nasty Plot isn't an offensive move.

YOU'RE AN OFFENSIVE MOVE

 

[Terywj [태리]]

We have Aura Sphere for that.

:V

I'd also like to mention that Nasty Plot isn't an offensive move.

I fixed it, my mistake.

 

[Charmander]

Hyper Voice

you do realize this thing has no mouth right?

 

[UltiMario]

Arceus doesn't have a mouth and it can learn Hyper Voice :3

 

[Charmander]

Arceus doesn't have a mouth and it can learn Hyper Voice :3

Arceus can learn fly

point = invalid

 

[UltiMario]

Arceus is like God. He needs to be able to fly. Also he's very high in the sky when you encounter him so whatever LOL.

 

[Charmander]

Arceus is like God. He needs to be able to fly. Also he's very high in the sky when you encounter him so whatever LOL.

he learns fly, yet not teleport, I call shenanigans.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Back on topic.

Hyper Voice can work, it doesn't necessarily need a mouth, right? And there are Pokemon that have features (eyes, etc.) that aren't visible in their artwork.
But I'll leave Hyper Voice as Controversial for now.

 

[rockem7]

Maybe Hyper Voice would be more like a telepathic noise and then harm the opponents mind?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Do we even want to give SmashCAP 3 priority?

Extremespeed is most definitely a no. Even with terrible Attack running this alongside Hyper Voice / Tri Attack would be too good with Stealth Rocks up.

Sucker Punch is essentially the same thing as Extremespeed except more situational and hits everything.

Quick Attack is more manageable than Extremespeed and is a lot weaker. I'd still say controversial, should we give it priority at all.

Shadow Sneak (See: Quick Attack)

 

[Charmander]

Do we even want to give SmashCAP 3 priority?

Extremespeed is most definitely a no. Even with terrible Attack running this alongside Hyper Voice / Tri Attack would be too good with Stealth Rocks up.

Sucker Punch is essentially the same thing as Extremespeed except more situational and hits everything.

Quick Attack is more manageable than Extremespeed and is a lot weaker. I'd still say controversial, should we give it priority at all.

Shadow Sneak (See: Quick Attack)

Certain priority moves are purely due to aethstetics

Extremespeed - well, I REALLY dont see how this thing could rely on pure speed, so no

Sucker punch - If you see the artwork for more than 5 seconds, you will easily be able to picture it sucker punching, so yes

Quick attack - see extremespeed

Shadow sneak - LOOK AT IT, ITS A GREY, DEVIOUS LOOKING SNAKE, so yes

I look at aethstetics, rather than competitive aspect, so yeah....

And there are Pokemon that have features (eyes, etc.) that aren't visible in their artwork

I purposely made it have no mouth, jussayin....

If you all want hyper voice, then meh -___-

 

[Wave⁂]

Flavor posts should and will be ignored.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Good job, Wave.

That said, will someone please voice out their opinion on my priority post?

 

[Wave⁂]

Disallowed:
ExtremeSpeed - Too much potential for abuse. 0 attack neutral nature STAB ExtremeSpeed does 25% to min / min Starmie and Infernape.

Allowed:
Sucker Punch - Could be useful on occasion.
Quick Attack - Does 13% to min / min Infernape. Useful, and might be worth a moveslot on certain sets, but not too game-breaking.
Shadow Sneak - Same as Sucker Punch; less powerful, but more situational.

 

[UltiMario]

Nobody is going to use Physical priority with this thing :/

If this thing gets any priority people will want to use it will be Vacuum Wave.

 

[mood4food77]

elemental punches
mirror move (what is it considered?)

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Elemental punches won't really matter I guess...so allow Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, and Ice Punch?

I had some further ideas but I forgot them at the moment.

 

[mood4food77]

alright, i'm making a big post

he's gonna be able to be every type (technically), so should we have him learn every special move possible or only certain ones:

here is each viable special move for every type (not including unique moves):

Bug:
Bug Buzz
Signal Beam
Silver Wind

Dark:
Dark Pulse

Dragon:
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse
Dragonbreath

Electric:
Charge Beam
Discharge
Thunder
Thunderbolt

Fighting:
Aura Sphere
Focus Blast
Vaccuum Wave

Fire:
Eruption
Fire Blast
Flamethrower
Heat Wave
Lava Plume
Overheat

Flying:
Air Slash

Ghost:
Ominous Wind
Shadow Ball

Grass:
Energy Ball
Giga Drain
Grass Knot
Leaf Storm
Solarbeam

Ground:
Earth Power

Ice:
Blizzard
Ice Beam

Normal:
Hidden Power
Hyper Voice
Tri Attack
Weather Ball

Poison:
Sludge Bomb

Psychic:
Dream Eater
Extrasensory
Psychic

Rock:
Ancient Power
Power Gem

Steel:
Flash Cannon
Mirror Shot

Water:
Brine
Hydro Pump
Surf
Water Spout


i say, he just gets the main ones of most types, or even each type, like Surf and Hydro Pump for water and nothing else

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'll scourge through your list later, but even though Kecleon can be every type, he doesn't necessarily gain every type of move available... :\

 

[Wave⁂]

Pretty sure this step is only competitively viable moves. Also removing some stuff like Psycho Boost, which I believe should remain exclusive to legendaries until Game Freak does otherwise, and stuff like Eruption that makes no sense.

So, trimming down the list:

Spoiler

Bug:
Bug Buzz
Signal Beam

Dragon:
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse

Electric:
Charge Beam
Thunder
Thunderbolt

Fighting:
Aura Sphere
Vaccuum Wave

Fire:
Fire Blast
Flamethrower
Heat Wave
Overheat

Ghost:
Shadow Ball

Grass:
Grass Knot
Leaf Storm

Ground:
Earth Power

Ice:
Blizzard
Ice Beam

Normal:
Hidden Power
Hyper Voice
Tri Attack
Weather Ball

Psychic:
Psychic

Rock:
Power Gem

Steel:
Flash Cannon

Water:
Hydro Pump
Surf

 

[UltiMario]

Now trimming the list to what this ling MIGHT learn.

Spoiler

Bug:
Signal Beam

Dragon:
X

Electric:
Thunderbolt

Fighting:
Aura Sphere
Vaccuum Wave

Fire:
X

Ghost:
Shadow Ball

Grass:
X

Ground:
Earth Power

Ice:
X

Normal:
Hidden Power
Tri Attack

Psychic:
Psychic

Rock:
Power Gem

Steel:
Flash Cannon

Water:
X