Smash and Flatscreens...help!

[ThaJakester]

I'm sorry if this is "just another one of those topics" but just recently I am being forced to finally let go of my wonderful CRT TV that has been used for so many years now in prolonging Melee in my life...However as I just said, change is on the horizon, and we have to "upgrade" from that trusty CRT because it isn't compatible with this new audio amplifier my pops has gotten...

We all know that for years now flat screens haven't been the best choice for Smash because of intense input lag issues...but now in 2013, is there still really not a flat screen out there that is DECENT enough to run the game accordingly??? I'm pretty sure plasma would still be the best option when put against LCD or LED, but what is really the best option here? I'm looking into range of 30-40 inches.

 

[Dan Salvato]

There is no existing LCD TV with no input lag on an analog signal, sorry. You're probably looking at 5+ frames with a TV that size.

 

[rjgbadger]

for all things holy you should keep that CRT for smash

no flatscreen ever not gonna have lag. you need a good CRT.

you can get a CRT with component input(ive got 2 of these, and one with video-out) and it will lag considerably less. i do believe that there is still 1 frame of lag even when you use component on a lagless tv though

 

[Bones0]

Settle the dispute like men: play your dad in Melee to see which TV stays and which TV goes.

 

[EPsilon933]

If you have a Wii, use component/VGA cables to cut out some of the lag. Theoretically, there will always be lag but there are monitors out there that cut it close to 0. They tend to cost $300-$500 from what I've seen

Go to a thrift store and find a small CRT to keep in your own room

 

[ERayz]

What about 120Hz LCD TVs?

 

[Kadano]

Why would you expect them to be better than LCDs with a lower frequency?

 

[The 2t]

Yeah 120Hz is just the refresh rate so the picture looks a bit smoother, has nothing to do with input lag.

 

[JKJ]

In my opinion, keep the CRt in your room.
However, if you get a Panasonic Viera in that size(go for as small as possible), and use a wii with component cables and set it to progressive scan, then you will probably only have 1-ish frames of lag.
EDIT: DOn't forget to set it to game mode (it meaning the TV)

 

[KrIsP!]

Agree with above, just don't throw it out. You can put it in another room, heck store it in a closet and take it out when you feel like playing, all it needs is an outlet, no audio amplifier.

Just tell your dad that old games don't work on the new tvs the way his amplifier doesnt work with the old one and you like playing old games; he'll understand. Even if its a bit of an embellishment.

 

[MuraRengan]

There is no existing LCD TV with no input lag on an analog signal, sorry. You're probably looking at 5+ frames with a TV that size.

This is untrue actually. I've played on quite a few LCD TV's that have no input lag. Specifically, the Panasonic Viera series has a great reputation for not lagging. I have a 44 inch Viera in my room that works like a charm (KishPrime can vouch for it).

Also, the PS3 3D monitors are specifically built for gaming and have no lag

 

[Bad Cupboard]

The PS3 TVs are built for gaming with a system that outputs through HDMI at native HD resolutions, not upscaling and de-interlacing a 480i image from a gamecube.

 

[MuraRengan]

The PS3 TVs are built for gaming with a system that outputs through HDMI at native HD resolutions, not upscaling and de-interlacing a 480i image from a gamecube.

Have you played on one with a GC? Because I have (with KishPrime) and they work just fine. The only issue is that they cannot output the GC video in color, but if you have a wii with component cables you can play lagless melee on them in color.

 

[Acryte]

Buy a DVDO, personally I have the VP30 but I'm sure the Edge Green is more than good enough. I have a DVDO, it will upscale it to whatever resolution and aspect ratio you want. It can deinterlace in less than 1/3 of a frame, the simple act of upscaling progressive scan input is pretty much lagless.

The edge green will cost you $400 unless you find a good deal on one. There is one on ebay right now for $300. Not a bad deal.

http://www.amazon.com/DVDO-High-Definition-Processor-Connectivity-Solution/dp/B001OOZU8I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373589086&sr=8-1&keywords=dvdo edge green

 

[hectohertz]

anyone done a video test with one of these "lagless" monitors and a crt?

 

[Biinii]

Plasma is horrid, worst of them all.

 

[LemonGodOfLemons]

I know this might seem a little elaborate, but with a Wii U, couldn't you just use the HDMI cables with an HDTV and then use a Gamecube controller through converter cables?

 

[Zodiac]

Good lord guys, Yes we CAN have lagless hdtv's if the processor in said tv is fast enough and we are getting there, two years ago it was not possible to play melee on an hdtv even with a game mode, today the tv's are better and faster and frankly playable.

 

[Kadano]

anyone done a video test with one of these "lagless" monitors and a crt?

Prad, a German research company, has done this. Here is the article. If you don’t want to read all the science stuff: 5 ms is the absolute best latency LCDs can offer if they are fed native resolution. However, Melee is not 1920×1080@60p but 640×480@60i, so deinterlacing and scaling increase that value significantly. If you use component cables with progressive scan enabled, it’s a bit lower, but scaling still causes some lag.

5 ms is about one third of a frame and should be acceptable, but it’s still 7000 times as much latency as you have with CRTs.

 

[EPsilon933]

Buy a DVDO, personally I have the VP30 but I'm sure the Edge Green is more than good enough. I have a DVDO, it will upscale it to whatever resolution and aspect ratio you want. It can deinterlace in less than 1/3 of a frame, the simple act of upscaling progressive scan input is pretty much lagless.

The edge green will cost you $400 unless you find a good deal on one. There is one on ebay right now for $300. Not a bad deal.

http://www.amazon.com/DVDO-High-Definition-Processor-Connectivity-Solution/dp/B001OOZU8I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373589086&sr=8-1&keywords=dvdo edge green

With $300-$300, you'd be better off spending that money on a legit monitor. I can't seem to find any actual numbers, but from what I've heard MLG monitors lag less than EVO monitors. Just use a Wii with component cables if those monitors can accept those signals well. You will be sending it a progressive scan signal. (There's a Wii/PS3 component cable that I happen to have. For some reason it works fine for PS3 but for Wii the image goes black like every 20 seconds on my EVO monitor. This has happened on another monitor I've tested as well. But when connected to a projector, it works just fine on the Wii)


http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2012/review-eizo-foris-fs2333-bk-part9.html#Responsiveness

Lag
The lag is an important value for gamers and we measure it as the sum of the signal delay time and half of the average switching time. With a signal delay of just 0.8 milliseconds, the Eizo FS2333 is one of those monitors with practically no lag, as promised in the advertisements, with such minimal values rarely to be found even in the earlier cathode ray tube models. The time until the target luminance is achieved is very short at 3.8 milliseconds (Overdrive Fastest); with a total average lag of just 4.6 milliseconds, the Eizo FS2333 can be recommended for the fastest games.