Smash 4 Samus bad advertisement for Metroid

[DungeonMaster]

I think the community is voting, whether here or in Japan, and Samus is considered to be a terrible smash character.
The overall negativity from the internet is not good, even overwhelming at times, particularly for someone who tries to stay positive.
It's unfortunate that a whole generation of kids now will have grown up with a bad impression of a once great series, character.

Samus is centre on the cover of the box, plastered all over the menus, including the for-glory menu. At one point I remember Sakurai saying they wanted to make prominent characters in up-and-coming games, I guess that bodes poorly for an actual Metroid game at E3 reveal this year. 30th anniversary of the series too. I was personally really hoping that the secret game Retro Studios was working on was in fact a Metroid.
Short of a balance patch that makes the character more accessible (i.e fix the grab, the homing missiles, the hit/hurt box priority), I feel Nintendo is really shooting themselves in the foot.

Just some random thoughts, I've had a rough week (or two)....

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

If you’re feeling that because Samus is low tier then her popularity and franchise will suffer then I would have to disagree.

One thing you have to remember is that the serious competitive community is still only part of the consumers of Sm4sh. With that being the case you have younger kids who like Samus in this game because she looks like a robot (or Ironman) and has a cool charge shot and missiles they can easily hit people with. I’m an example of this with the original smash bros. I had no idea who Samus was when 64 came out, my neighbor had NES Metroid, but we only played it a couple of times. Smash 64 got me into the Metroid series and I still had to wait a 3 years to really play a Metroid game. Samus was at the bottom of the tier list in 64, but that didn’t affect her then.

Another point is that Zero Suit Samus is considered top tier so theMetroid series is at least in the spot light in the competitive community.

The inclusion for Ridley as a stage boss is a good thing. Even though he is not playable like I wanted, at least he is in the game. The hardcore gamer audience knows who Ridley is but the causal audience may not. Being a stage hazard is really not that bad because “casuals” are the ones who need exposure to Ridley and the ones who would play on a non-Omega pyrosphere.

I would say that the biggest mistake Sm4sh has made for Samus is that here move set is not as unique as it once was. We now have multiple characters that have charge shot and missile like moves, so she just doesn’t feel as special anymore. I wish the developers would have at least given her custom moves that were Metroid canon in order to give her some more diversity and exposure. I still don't understand why they didn't make her Final Smash the hyper beam instead of the zero laser. How cool would it be to have a gigantic metroid come in and power her up, then blast everyone away?

Samus being low tier is disappointing, but the fate of the Metroid franchise still lies with the Metroid games. Many people were disappointed with Other M. If we get another disappointing Metroid game then that will do more damage than anything Smash can do. I believe we will get a Metroid game this year at E3, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

And if you really want to look on the brightside: at least Samus/Metroid is in a better spot than F-Zero. Yes Captain Falcon is good in Sm4sh, but that’s all F-Zero fans got. I don’t think we will get another F-Zero for at least 2 more years.

 

[Xygonn]

Samus is a very different character, which shapes people's impression of her. I have been trying to improve my other characters and there are things that work with most of the cast that don't with Samus. Furthermore you need to learn new habits especially as it relates to aerial attacks.

1) Roll/SHAD: Samus has a trash roll; we all know this. It's much less safe than other character's rolls. On the opposite end, most characters have a terrible SHAD, with some even suffering the 22 frames of landing lag. So you don't learn to SHAD with most of the cast.

2) Usmash: With most characters, punishing a missed tech with an up smash is a great idea. With her, you probably whiff, and even if you hit it's a mediocre punish. I usmash all the goddamn time with villager, olimar, megaman, pikachu, G&W, etc. etc. Samus has a trash usmash that will get you punished.

3) Jab: Jab is a pretty good move for most of the cast, hers doesn't link up until high percents.

4) Shield Grab: Probably not true for those of us familiar with upb oos, but a lot of the semi-competitive people are all about the shield grab. Shield grab works for most characters, but isn't safe for samus against the majority of the casts' nair -> jab

5) Wonky dash attack: it looks like the shoulder is hitting before it actually starts hitting.

6) Zair: It's a totally new habit you have to learn. Only four cast members have zair. Samus, Zamus, Link, Tink.

7) Neutral B won't charge in the air. She is the only person with a charge up attack where this is true.

8) Can't wavebounce, or b-reverse anything for tricky air momentum fakeouts.

Her aerial kit is good, but totally abnormal

9) Mediocre Nair: Her nair isn't a sex kick anymore and lots of nairs still are (or a cartwheely thing, or other short range long lasting hit box/multihit). I'm begining to like her nair more and more, especially offstage. Again it's a very different nair than the majority of the cast has. Normal nair habits will have you missing on this attack a lot.

10) Fair: Samus has an extremely unique fair. It's really really good, but it has super weird threat area and timing compared to typical fairs, plus tons of landing lag.

11) Uair: This almost replaces nair as a landing strategy compared to most characters. The other characters with low landing lag uairs also have good landing lag on nair (and it generally threatens a better area for them).

12) Dair: Her dair is slow, yes, but it has low endlag so we seldom suffer the (actually still relatively low for a dair) landing lag. Dair is an ok landing option with her (on crossup), which is basically unique for those characters with a meaty dair. SH Dair also autocancels. Again, very different for a character with a meaty dair.

To be honest, when I play a lot of the more typical characters, then go back to Samus, I find that I am playing Samus worse than normal because the habits are so different.

 

[MegaRiff]

@ ParanoidAndroid has a point. Kids will gravitate towards the cool looking characters, and she's one of the coolest looking ones. Plus there are way more people that play this casually, and let me tell you, casual players will take a look at that charge shot and say "omg OP"

You also have to remember @ DungeonMaster you're reading up on thoughts that represent such a tiny fraction of the large smash player-base. I mean yeah, it is a shame that she is thought of as such a low tier character by those that play this competitively but there's so much respect to be given to those of us that tough it out with her.

 

[DungeonMaster]

You all make good points, I'll definitely grant you that. It was actually from general comments in completely unrelated areas - I was looking at forum comments on the possibility of a new metroid and the negativity was present even there. That's what got me thinking that smashbros actually has a pretty significant impact on other games, and perceptions.
I'm still having fun, although some days I curse the designers to various levels of hell.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Metroid prime BASKETBALL. It's what everyone wanted no? Like the changes to f-tilt in the previous patch. It all makes sense now.

 

[Xygonn]

Full rage. Flipped my cubicle over at work. Jumped through the window and ran around like a savage. Dafuq. This is... please, just be a precursor to a real Metroid game with Samus in it.

 

[Afro Smash]

Samus to be replaced by a ball in smash 5 confirmed. Real talk what the **** were they thinking attaching the metroid name to those games without announcing an actual metroid game

 

[Xygonn]

Samus to be replaced by a ball in smash 5 confirmed. Real talk what the **** were they thinking attaching the metroid name to those games without announcing an actual metroid game

They should have made it like "Starfox Federation Force" or something. Starfox is getting a game. Starfox happens in space. Just cause it happens in space doesn't mean it has to me Metroid. The next four metroid games:

Metroid Party - You and up to 7 friends plays random ass mini games IN SPACE. Play as a variety of beloved Metroid characters: Samus, Motherbrain, Chozo Statue, Kraid, and Ridley.

Metroidogs - You have a baby metroid that you need to raise to full strength, with a litter of dogs. Feed your metroid often or it will eat your dogs. Give your metroid enough power and you can give one of your dogs hyper mode for the next agility contest.

Metroid Beach Volleyball - Team Ninja is BACK to work on metroid again. Watch as they drive the character you loved deeper into the dirt, or sand, than ever before.

Metroid Prime: Pinball 2 - Because you don't deserve real metroid game. Play with this morphball on a virtual pinball table you stupid asshole. You'll buy it, won't you.

 

[E.Lopez]

I'm... so sad.

 

[Grambles]

And here I thought we'd be getting Metroid: Yarn. Kinda think that'd preferable at this point.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I can understand the negativity surrounding Federation Force, but this next part is incredibly shameless Kensuke Tanabe himself has laid out the basic story for Prime 4, bringing back dark horse character Sylux, meaning it's not as hopeless for Metroid as some may think. It may take time, but Metroid should recover.

 

[Hapajin]

I can understand the negativity surrounding Federation Force, but this next part is incredibly shameless Kensuke Tanabe himself has laid out the basic story for Prime 4, bringing back dark horse character Sylux, meaning it's not as hopeless for Metroid as some may think. It may take time, but Metroid should recover.

Sorry to divert the topic, but Wow! I never saw that article before! Is he confirming that it was Sylux at the end of Prime 3? Also did he just call Sylux a "he"?

 

[LIQUID12A]

Sorry to divert the topic, but Wow! I never saw that article before! Is he confirming that it was Sylux at the end of Prime 3? Also did he just call Sylux a "he"?

Yes, he did explicitly confirm that the ship was the Delano 7 and mentioned Sylux by name.

While the article cites Sylux as "he" Japanese pronouns can get lost in translation. It's fair to assume that he used a gender neutral Japanese pronoun that was translated as he, but it still fuels speculation immensely.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Samus being low tier is disappointing, but the fate of the Metroid franchise still lies with the Metroid games. Many people were disappointed with Other M. If we get another disappointing Metroid game then that will do more damage than anything Smash can do. I believe we will get a Metroid game this year at E3, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

Well E3 was worse than my "worst case scenarios" I had thought up. FF is a huge disappointment. I think it could be a good game, but not a good Metroid game. Metroid fans want a solo adventure with great atmosphere and immersion, not a co-op first person shooter. I think they just slapped Metroid on the title to help market it.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Oh the news is worse than that: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/06/...-game-not-likely-until-nintendos-next-console
No new metroid for Wii U at all and no new Metroid likely for 3 years.

I vaguely remember Sakurai saying they had to showcase characters from up-and coming games in a positive light. I guess this does explain how you can design a 16 frame startup grab with 1.5 seconds of cooldown in a fighting game and get away with that at any sort of internal review: no one cares. Unreal....
I've had a bad week.

 

[Metallinatus]

Samus being low tier is disappointing, but the fate of the Metroid franchise still lies with the Metroid games. Many people were disappointed with Other M. If we get another disappointing Metroid game then that will do more damage than anything Smash can do. I believe we will get a Metroid game this year at E3, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

It is so funny to read that now, I mean, funny in a bad way, in a depressing way.... well, funny.