SIX NEW VIDS Jan 8th - Miggz's Fox Please critque/advice needed. ^^

[Miggz]

*New Vids* - Please critique. XD

Miggz [Fox] V.S. RoK [Green Fox]

Match 1 - YS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA9raMWiKoM
Match 2 - PS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVdkv9u--d4&feature=channel_page

Match 3 - FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4dtdxtMLTU&feature=channel_page

Match 4 - PS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTITfmOhlAs&feature=channel_page

Match 5 - BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqFQWqqD6uE&feature=channel_page

Match 6 - DL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF4fXIhBmCA&feature=channel_page






Hey everyone. Ok so I have some videos of my Fox fighting my friend's Marth. Lately, Marth has been my toughest match up when playing as Fox. I would really appreciate some advice when fighting Marth. Oh and I would also wouldn't mind reading your overall thoughts on my Fox. Thanks in advance, everyone. :-)

Miggz[Fox] V.S. RoK [Marth] - FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIfJUNDuh3Y&feature=channel_page

Miggz[Fox] V.S. RoK [Marth] - DL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhqP_9A9Qx8&feature=channel_page

Miggz[Fox] V.S. RoK [Marth] - YS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKDVrw9CXLI&feature=channel_page

[Old vid]

Miggz[Fox] V.S. Boochie [Mario] - FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBccVZ0wJxM

 

[Miggz]

Guess you guys prefer to comment on my more recent vids when I make/post em. lol ^^"

 

[SpaceFalcon]

You remind me of my Fox before.. all jumpy and shiney.
I can tell this Mario has spent some time playing Brawl, theres not really much advice I can give you other then the same advice I always post. Keep playing, watch vids.

 

[Miggz]

Thanks for the critque, SpaceFalcon. Yeah I'm the type of Fox who just likes the simple aerial to waveshine to grab/upsmash kind of style. The biggest thing I wish to improve on the most is my mindgames, which will come natural, I'm sure.

But overall, I think my tech skill with Fox is pretty solid. Oh and look out for my new fox vids coming this weekend.

Anyone else wish to critique my Fox for me?

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Oh yeah blue fox = ***** the hardest

Just remember that

 

[Miggz]

Hey everyone. I am pleased to inform that I have uploaded new videos of my Fox. The vids contain matches fighting a Marth. I would really appreciate words of advice/criticisms because I find myself struggling in this match up, please help. lol

 

[RaynEX]

Sup Miggz.

Alright, I've watched all of your matches and have tried to pick up on the things you can improve on. I found alot of small things, and two very important things you can't seem to get down.

Go through each match, now count how many SUCCESSFUL EDGE-GUARDS you do from start to finish. See...I didn't see a single one from even the first two matches.

There isn't a single time you use the ledge-invincibility frames to kill Marth while he his still off the stage. You never try to hop off and bair while he's coming back. You always retreat back to the stage and let him come back on, then try to hit him off again and repeat the process. You need to learn to actually do moves off the edge at the right time and intercept Marth using ledge frames and bair or shine. I think the problem is you don't force him off the stage that much. Try using drillshine more to push him off the edge, then shine him again or grab the edge and hog/bair. You need to learn to apply pressure and treat the edges of the stage like the corners of a boxing ring. You pin your opponent down and force damage on them while they are trying to escape.

Another big thing I noticed in your matches was your repetitive recovering. You almost always Firefox and angle it diagonally up. The only time you don't is when you illusion, and when you do that you always go straight for Marth instead of attempting to sweetspot. You could also try to do a really high illusion and land on platforms, but you don't do that either.

You need to definitely start incorporating firefox sweetspots into your game. Also try to drop low and squeeze the firefox against the ledge so you can tech and airdodge/illusion.

When it comes to on-stage play. You don't shield nearly as much as you need to. I can count maybe 6-7 run->shields or just regular shields in all your matches combined. Learning to let Marth lag into your shield and dair or grab to punish him is really important too. Learn to be smart out of shield and always make use of grabs if you get them.

This is the kind of stuff you need to work on in order to beat Marth in a competitive setting, and improve your game overall. I know its a friendly and all, but the amount of failed edge-guards was sad to watch. loll..

good **** though. later man.

 

[Miggz]

Yo RaynEX. Hey thanks for the comment dude, really means a lot.

Hm I see. So I need to be more aggressive in my edge-guarding. Yeah I see what you mean, I was a little too passive. The funny part, I'm capable of applying these techniques but its beyond me why I failed in even trying to do this. So yeah I will defiantly improve my edge guarding more, especially on the various stalls to keep my frames while hanging on the stage.

Yeah I must admit when RoK gets me off the stage I get so nervous. Nevertheless, I should remember the options available to me. Ok so incorporate sweet spot illusions/fire foxes, shortening the illusion, and aiming it at different spots. So it seems its just my edge game overall that is a major chunk of my flaws. Yeah I will indeed have these elements polished up when I post new vids in the near future.

ROFL! Go figure, I failed to shield a lot. Ok, I can tidy up in that department too. Haha. I'm really happy that I got the wave shining stuff down. That took me a while to get repeatedly. ^^"

But thank you so much for your advice, friend. Hearing your advice really means a lot. I will indeed take what you taught me and blend it in my game, you can count on it. Not to mention since I am going to attend University in the Halifax region next year, I have to buff more so I can play you. I'm sure its an easy flight from Halifax to Toronto. Thanks again.

Much respect. :-)

 

[RaynEX]

bah, anytime man.

I want to see your progress, so upload more vids soon.

peeace.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

DI the upthrow chain grab so its at least ahrder for him to regrab you (slightly away and up)

toherwise rayn did a good job covering ish

 

[Vijin]

A mind game I like to use as fox vs any character (except fox, strange enough) is dash dancing. And not in the way that you might think I'm talking about.
When I go into dash dancing, my opponent usually does the exact same thing. He starts dashing dancing, which is what I want him to do. Good players will expect you to dash in and attack, only for it to wiff and result in you getting punished. Instead, what you do is expect him to dash dance away from you as you make your attack, and instead, follow him. you attack where he is GOING to be, and you will get a free grab, Usmash, whatever you want 100%.

 

[Miggz]

bah, anytime man.

I want to see your progress, so upload more vids soon.

peeace.

Hey pal. Happy New Year! Hope you had a good one and whatnot. Well I got some new Fox vids for yah to watch. I hope you enjoy them, do let me know what you think. :-)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Okay, Final Destination.

Make sure you don't miss easy shinespikes. Those're basically free kills as Fox.

Also, uthrow usmash is a good idea, but make sure you're hitting with the right part. If they're drifting behind you, just turn around before you usmash so you get the most damage out of it.

Jab combos are also a good idea, but don't do them reflexively =P Make sure your jab connects before you follow up on it.

Yeah, again, just use jump cancel grabs.

Don't be afraid to be aggressive on the edge. If you get your opponent off the stage, you should try to make that the stock, every time. Grab the edge, at least, that's probably your best position to edgeguard from most of the time. You can also try fsmashing the Illusion instead of nairing. Or at lower percentages, utilt to bair.

Woooah, scary. Tech the dthrow, or they'll start usmashing you.

I don't know that the dair is that great of an approach. It has very little shieldstun and if I recall correctly, most characters can shieldgrab you before the shine comes out, since you've got nine frames of landing lag.

Work your dashdance a little more. You're like... running around and wavedashing, which is good because you realize the importance of movement, but dashdancing will give you more versatility and mobility.

You guys crouch cancel shines a lot @_@ If you notice that happening, you can follow up with a wavedash to grab, since a crouch canceling Fox won't fall over from the shine.

You don't seem very comfortable on the ledge. Your ledgestalls are kinda high and the ways you get back onto the stage are kinda awkward. So just like... mess around with that on your own, practice ledgedashing and lower ledgestalls, stuff like that.

 

[Miggz]

Yeah I wish I knew the timing of how to shine other Foxes out of their Up/Side Bs. I know I can hit them when their Fire Fox is charging but not sure how to spike them when its in motion. ^^"

Looks like my Marth and Fox share the same weird grab game. So yeah will keep it strictly JC grabs.

Hey nice edge guarding tips. Those sound pretty good. Yeah hitting them with the SHFFL nair while recovering is a little tricky. So I will apply those methods of yours.

Yeah watching RoK's Fox, I noticed he wasn't really using SHFFL dair at all. Haha. I have no clue why I dair so much. you would think you're watching a Falco. lol

Dash dancing...got it. XD

Tell me about. I could not believe how many times we waveshined each other without falling down. So weird. I don't know about RoK, but my crouch cancels were not intentional. lol

Ok, I shall work on my edge game some more. Thanks for taking the time to look at my vids. You really rock for this. I'll be sure to keep you posted on my progress. Thanks again, friend. ^^

 

[Ndot]

Hey Miggz, I just noticed some slight problems with your edgeguarding. Like when Rok was doing his upB infront of the ledge and you were standing right there infront, you missed the edge guard.

Some moves that you can use for edgeguarding depending on your prediction of where he will go during this kind of situation could be: (these options are for when you are just standing there above the ledge)
-fsmash like elven said
-dsmash the edge if they forward b into the ledge
-up tilt facing the stage if you think they will upB or forward into the stage towards you, it should hit given that utilt's hitbox is huge O_o
-a simple nair if they upB or forward b into the stage, same with bair
-f-tilt works if they go into you or the ledge
-run off and shine him, shines hitbox is gay lol
- and jab, for teh lulz XD

Hope this helped, theres more ways to edgeguard than these, you can be creative with that. Play around, and you'll get better at edgeguarding.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If you're on the edge and they're trying to Fire Fox through you, just use your invincibility frames and hit them whenever with the shine. It's really easy.

 

[RaynEX]

Yeah I wish I knew the timing of how to shine other Foxes out of their Up/Side Bs. I know I can hit them when their Fire Fox is charging but not sure how to spike them when its in motion. ^^"

Looks like my Marth and Fox share the same weird grab game. So yeah will keep it strictly JC grabs.

Hey nice edge guarding tips. Those sound pretty good. Yeah hitting them with the SHFFL nair while recovering is a little tricky. So I will apply those methods of yours.

Yeah watching RoK's Fox, I noticed he wasn't really using SHFFL dair at all. Haha. I have no clue why I dair so much. you would think you're watching a Falco. lol

Dash dancing...got it. XD

Tell me about. I could not believe how many times we waveshined each other without falling down. So weird. I don't know about RoK, but my crouch cancels were not intentional. lol

Ok, I shall work on my edge game some more. Thanks for taking the time to look at my vids. You really rock for this. I'll be sure to keep you posted on my progress. Thanks again, friend. ^^

Dair is better than nair imo. Everyone does early, weak SH nairs which can be seen from a while away and CCed easily. Either do late, full hit nairs (which are CCable but it doesn't matter because its hitstun keeps them in place till your shine comes out), or do dair you can't CC it.

I think that if you are playing a Fox that will CC shine you alot you should probably use dair to avoid your approaches getting screwed over because of it.

 

[EpicFear]

Since you're playing against a fox as a fox, you may as well try to make the most out of chain grabs. Also, for illusions, if you can't shine their illusion, jabbing them and following-up with a shine works pretty well too. Then again there's always the u-smash and f-tilt but that's just another way to mix things up i suppose.

 

[TemPesT-]

i prefer uptilt rather then jab lol. i've always done it, but it's probably not the smartest option. uptilt to bair :]

 

[EpicFear]

i mean that's a great edgeguard too but you're not guaranteed a kill if they're at lower percentages. Assuming you can nail the jab and you're fast enough to get down there for a shine, you can kill them off at much lower percentages. But yeah, at higher percentages, i would definitely opt for the uptilt to bair, or something like it.

 

[Miggz]

i prefer uptilt rather then jab lol. i've always done it, but it's probably not the smartest option. uptilt to bair :]

Up tilt as an edge guard? Nice. I must admit that is very creative. The up tilt does have an odd hit box, so I can see it working to some degree. Although I must admit the jab sounds a lot easier to land.

 

[Binx]

I'm going to critique Yoshi's Story cause its my favorite map =)

Right off the bat I'm noticing your friend doesn't shield a lot, and he crouch cancels so immediately you know that dair is going to be extra effective, also make sure to wavedash out of your shines, vs him I'd go ahead and waveshine him until he falls or skip the shine all together and just drill into a grab.

Early on you land an utilt, I'm pretty sure you could have turned around and grabbed, and I saw you could definitely have utilted him again, work on capitalizing on your combo opportunities. Don't hesitate ^_^

DI up smash away to prevent more of them, in this case I think you would have been able to grab the ledge pretty easily, on this stage you have some extra options off the ledge due to the awesome placement of platforms, so it could have been a good move.

@ 25 seconds you try to recover to the stage with a forward b after a ledgehop, I personally try not to use this trick very often because the people I play might very well kill me after it. I think wavelanding is a safer option, especially vs fox who is so fast.

Good platform drop, good spacing, I would have immediately tried a backair, or shined to create some more pressure. Your friend reacted well though, and you didn't do anything *wrong*

@ 29 seconds, work on sweet spotting with double jumps, this is the best way to recover vs most people.

@ 32 seconds, make to DI upthrows unless you are trying to shine out of them.

When you come back from dying make sure and apply pressure, he is ledge camping, so try and provoke him back on the stage with movement tricks, predict the option he will use and punish accordingly for example, you expect him to waveland onto the top platform then nair up there, waveland the bottom platform grab, ledgehop an attack dash dance regrab or maybe smash attack him back off.

@ 45 seconds you upsmash, at the percent I would have probably just baired or utilted to get him off the edge where I could take advantage of his recovery options, I like to use sheik type nairs, fall slightly below the stage and double jump nair while DIing back onto the ledge, this can knick a lot of recoveries if you don't know what to expect, sets or for shines sometimes.

@ 1:07 if you would have naired immediately you would have connected, that split second of hesitation cost you an edgeguard opportunity.

On a side note, your friend dash attacks a lot, so you should think about shielding more.

@ 1:22 get up attack =) I think you know what better options would be

wavedash out of your shines ^_^

@ 1:35 your friend makes clever use of the platforms and gets a good hit on you, try and learn to do that as well, or predict what he wants to do, create false openings and take advantage when he goes for them.

@ !:46 hesitated on another nair, fortunately though you made up for it nicely.

@ 1:55ish you do some nice movement when he comes back keeping you safe, you miss and easy bair shine though by not using any aerials, when they are near and vulnerable by all means hit them for it. My guess is you watch your own character every once in a while, try and break that habit.

Should almost always shine if they shield your drill.

Try not to dash attack at low percents, nairs drills and grabs are your friend vs spacies.

After you nair your friend you back off the platform, why not just nair again, don't be afraid to apply some pressure you have decent spacing you just need to learn to trust it.

@ 2:25 was a perfect opportunity to shine spike or to run off and nair back onto the stage, both would put him in precarious positions, or either maybe could have killed him.

@2:30 you forward B, looks like you were going for a shine, I would have nair'd there, he was too high up for the shine to kill and he could possibly have forward b recovered before you could have done anything.

Be patient when you edgeguard, your Fox, your fast just wait for the right opportunities and you will have time to get where you need to be to take advantage.

waveland grab is fine vs lightshielders on platforms.

VERY NICE! on the edgeguard.


Overall you both are doing very well, you just need to trust your spacing more, most of the time its right on, and you ruin it with fear. Another big problem i see is hesitation, learn to expect where your attacks will send them, so you can set up faster and more reliably. Your friend right now seems to be at the level you should be at in a few weeks.

 

[Miggz]

I'm going to critique Yoshi's Story cause its my favorite map =)

Right off the bat I'm noticing your friend doesn't shield a lot, and he crouch cancels so immediately you know that dair is going to be extra effective, also make sure to wavedash out of your shines, vs him I'd go ahead and waveshine him until he falls or skip the shine all together and just drill into a grab.

Early on you land an utilt, I'm pretty sure you could have turned around and grabbed, and I saw you could definitely have utilted him again, work on capitalizing on your combo opportunities. Don't hesitate ^_^

DI up smash away to prevent more of them, in this case I think you would have been able to grab the ledge pretty easily, on this stage you have some extra options off the ledge due to the awesome placement of platforms, so it could have been a good move.

@ 25 seconds you try to recover to the stage with a forward b after a ledgehop, I personally try not to use this trick very often because the people I play might very well kill me after it. I think wavelanding is a safer option, especially vs fox who is so fast.

Good platform drop, good spacing, I would have immediately tried a backair, or shined to create some more pressure. Your friend reacted well though, and you didn't do anything *wrong*

@ 29 seconds, work on sweet spotting with double jumps, this is the best way to recover vs most people.

@ 32 seconds, make to DI upthrows unless you are trying to shine out of them.

When you come back from dying make sure and apply pressure, he is ledge camping, so try and provoke him back on the stage with movement tricks, predict the option he will use and punish accordingly for example, you expect him to waveland onto the top platform then nair up there, waveland the bottom platform grab, ledgehop an attack dash dance regrab or maybe smash attack him back off.

@ 45 seconds you upsmash, at the percent I would have probably just baired or utilted to get him off the edge where I could take advantage of his recovery options, I like to use sheik type nairs, fall slightly below the stage and double jump nair while DIing back onto the ledge, this can knick a lot of recoveries if you don't know what to expect, sets or for shines sometimes.

@ 1:07 if you would have naired immediately you would have connected, that split second of hesitation cost you an edgeguard opportunity.

On a side note, your friend dash attacks a lot, so you should think about shielding more.

@ 1:22 get up attack =) I think you know what better options would be

wavedash out of your shines ^_^

@ 1:35 your friend makes clever use of the platforms and gets a good hit on you, try and learn to do that as well, or predict what he wants to do, create false openings and take advantage when he goes for them.

@ !:46 hesitated on another nair, fortunately though you made up for it nicely.

@ 1:55ish you do some nice movement when he comes back keeping you safe, you miss and easy bair shine though by not using any aerials, when they are near and vulnerable by all means hit them for it. My guess is you watch your own character every once in a while, try and break that habit.

Should almost always shine if they shield your drill.

Try not to dash attack at low percents, nairs drills and grabs are your friend vs spacies.

After you nair your friend you back off the platform, why not just nair again, don't be afraid to apply some pressure you have decent spacing you just need to learn to trust it.

@ 2:25 was a perfect opportunity to shine spike or to run off and nair back onto the stage, both would put him in precarious positions, or either maybe could have killed him.

@2:30 you forward B, looks like you were going for a shine, I would have nair'd there, he was too high up for the shine to kill and he could possibly have forward b recovered before you could have done anything.

Be patient when you edgeguard, your Fox, your fast just wait for the right opportunities and you will have time to get where you need to be to take advantage.

waveland grab is fine vs lightshielders on platforms.

VERY NICE! on the edgeguard.


Overall you both are doing very well, you just need to trust your spacing more, most of the time its right on, and you ruin it with fear. Another big problem i see is hesitation, learn to expect where your attacks will send them, so you can set up faster and more reliably. Your friend right now seems to be at the level you should be at in a few weeks.

Hey thanks so much for your advice, Binx. I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. You are right, I do tend to hesitate quite a bit. Especially when my opponent is off the stage. I tried so hard to nair RoK out of his side B, but the options you* listed for me sounds a lot more reliable. I will remain focus though and keep practicing. Oh and I do look at my own character quite a bit when playing instead of my opponent. Its amazing you can tell from simply watching one of my videos. lol So no doubt I'll remain focus in that aspect as well. Thanks again for everything, friend. I'll be sure to keep you posted on my progress and I'll get more vids up soon. XD

 

[Binx]

You would be surprised what you notice after playing for 2 and a half years =)

I've been analyzing matches like this for about half of my melee career ever since I saw forward do one, if I had means to record my own matches, oh man!

And this is just some general advice but if you expect a shield from another fox and your back just happens to be facing them I like to space my bair to tip their shield, they cant grab you out of it and it usually provokes a roll or a full jump that you can punish. Most people jump predictably, if you start to think of jumping in terms of tech chases you can "tech chase" a jump with nairs and get people off the edge without their double jump for some really easy gimps. While that second tip isn't always immensely useful vs Fox it's worth practicing.