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Side B

Minaj

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
3
I have moved from PM to Ultimate having never played smash 4 so forgive me if these questions are not news.

There seems to be no more jumping out of Ike's side-B. There also doesn't seem to be a wall jump out of side-B. As a consequence there seems to be no wave-dashing out of it, grabbing, aerial attacks, anything. If this is true, and it seems to me to be the case, what are the practical utilities of this move?

Without a variety of side-B options, what is Ike's best tools for approaching? It would seem a N-air or B-air but it's too early for me to tell. Any insights?
 

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
17,729
Location
Waxing Moon Ritual
NNID
Miyamoto Iori
Switch FC
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Side B is primarily a recovery tool now. You might get some mileage out of using it as a grounded mixup, but it's risky and you don't get a lot from it.

Ike neutral atm revolves around short-hopping and spacing your aerials.
 

Arrei

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,303
The only real use I've found for it is for getting in on an opponent doing excessive foxtrotting or chasing a landing when you don't think dash attack will cover it, since Ike steps forward quite a ways before dash attack's hit comes out. With a constant detector on the move and the option to charge it while you wait for an opponent to choose a landing option I see it as a more reliable but significantly weaker dash attack... which could also have use for keeping dash attack fresh to kill when you need it to.

I don't know why they insist on keeping it so weak through all these years, though. Most moves of this nature are unsafe now that Fox, Falco, and Bayonetta don't get to cross-up for free with their side specials, but Ike still doesn't get damage, kill power, follow-ups, or safety out of it.
 
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Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
17,729
Location
Waxing Moon Ritual
NNID
Miyamoto Iori
Switch FC
SW-4826-9581-3305
The only real use I've found for it is for getting in on an opponent doing excessive foxtrotting or chasing a landing when you don't think dash attack will cover it, since Ike steps forward quite a ways before dash attack's hit comes out. With a constant detector on the move and the option to charge it while you wait for an opponent to choose a landing option I see it as a more reliable but significantly weaker dash attack.

I don't know why they insist on keeping it so weak through all these years, though. Most moves of this nature are unsafe now that Fox and Falco don't get to cross-up for free with their side specials, but Ike still doesn't get damage, kill power, follow-ups, or safety out of it.
I have no idea why they keep making it a slow charging move that is neither powerful nor fast.
Not much of a "quick draw" if you ask me.

Also doesn't help that in-game it's a damn cool critical hit animation that's fast and flashy and here it's the exact opposite.
 

TheHero

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
34
I have no idea why they keep making it a slow charging move that is neither powerful nor fast.
Not much of a "quick draw" if you ask me.

Also doesn't help that in-game it's a damn cool critical hit animation that's fast and flashy and here it's the exact opposite.
I honestly doubt Sakurai ever played PoR or RD. Ike's design in Smash was likely just based on Sakurai's own ideas for a character and Ike was made to fit it. Instead of picking Ike and making a moveset for him.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2017/01/17/on-character-selection-brawl/

It also shows that Ragnell's flames weren't blue till Miiverse posts complained about the fire being red in smash4.

I honestly just don't have hope for Ike being interesting in a Sakurai directed Smash.
 
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niCkHatHito

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Rahway, New Jersey
Ike: Sakurai viewed the Fire Emblem series as a big franchise when making Smash 64 and Melee, and in a way, he proved himself correct; Marth and Roy’s popularity in Melee gave Nintendo of Amerca justification to finally bring the series to the west with Fire Emblem on the GBA. Just like Kirby and Metroid, there had been a new Fire Emblem game every year since 2002 so the franchise was very relevant at this time. Sakurai did not know who to include, so he initially wrote down “New Fire Emblem rep.” Intelligent Systems were the ones who told Sakurai to use Ike, just like how they advised him to use Roy in Melee. Ike made sense as Path of Radiance was the newest Fire Emblem protagonist at the time of the project plan, and with its later Wii sequel, Radiant Dawn, he would be the most prominent of the series’ characters for some time.

Looks like you are probably right as far as Sak. not having the same connection with Ike that he may have had with Marth... But that said I feel like Ike's moveset is pretty close to character.

Dash attack = attack animation from game.
Aether = up b / smash ball, translates the "ultimate" attack (no healing, but eh ;P)
Ike was a high HP medium-high defense high attack and medium speed hero within the universe, and he translated initially as a pure heavy, but in the later 2 games found his sweetspot as a heavy (not super heavyweight) to match his FE status. I think his Nair and Fair are very Ike-like in nature.

Only miss I see is maybe giving something around how ragnell was a ranged attack (side b could've been like a slow ranged falcon punch projectile or something). But Quickdraw seems thematic to me anyhow.

As far as the move itself, I think in 1v1 neutral it isn't very good unless you can cancel it by grabbing a ledge (thus basically isn't neutral at this point), get a hit on the low hit box on someone's body standing on a platform (so if they shield you fall to main stage) , or catch a fox trot in a laggy online match.

It's mostly unsafe on shield and even the foxtrot can trot shield it most likely if they aren't lagging :p

I do think you can kinda use it to stop short of someone since frame's are quicker exiting it without hitting anything vs. Hitting a shield and getting punished. (I. E. Use it to condition your opponent... Into thinking you are a noob :D, then start destroying with ikes aerials)
 
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