Shouldn't Ike be fast???

[gigasteve]

Anyone who played as Lord Ike in PoR knows that he is and has faster moves than in Brawl. So why is he so slow(Obviously he's powerful: he's Ike)?

 

[lukintosh]

Hello? He's wielding a 2-handed sword with ONE hand.

 

[Demonplant]

I meen he is going to be a link clone practacally. honestly i dont think they shouldve added him into SSBB......

 

[Cless]

How's he a Link clone again?

 

[megamanhaterX]

I meen he is going to be a link clone practacally. honestly i dont think they shouldve added him into SSBB......

you're right he should'nt have been added or anyone from fire emblem since fire emblem sux .

as for link clone???..... when i saw Ike get a smash ball on that E for All video his final smash was like links' but when i saw the update it didnt look like it did at the E for All I think they changed it which is good.

 

[KirbySSB]

I meen he is going to be a link clone practacally. honestly i dont think they shouldve added him into SSBB......

sword != link clone

 

[gigasteve]

Link and Roy weren't clones, and neither is Ike. Also, I love FE. Can't wait to get it for X-Mas!!

 

[Zevox]

Hello? He's wielding a 2-handed sword with ONE hand.

Ah, but in the actual games it comes from, Ragnell is not a two-handed sword, but a typical one-handed one. In fact, in Radiant Dawn it is revealed (no, this is not a spoiler of any importance, just an insignificant detail that gets shown at one point) that its original owner wielded both Ragnell and its counterpart blade Alondite (which is used by the Black Knight during PoR/RD) in a dual-wielding style, which would be impossible if either was a two-handed blade, much less both (and the two are identical in every way, so if one was two-handed, both would be). Ragnell was altered in Brawl to fit Ike's SSB fighting style.

Going simply by his stats, Ike should be a fairly middle-of-the-road character, being just a bit on the fast side. Somewhere between Marth and Roy, if you will. Why he was changed is anyone's guess. Personally, I suspect it was deliberately done to differentiate him from Marth - if he were given the abilities his stats would suggest he should have, the two would be quite similar, with Ike being just a bit slower and stronger than Marth. This way, both of Fire Emblem's biggest icons can be in without being anything like each other.

Zevox

 

[Miller]

In the Game PoR and RD, Ragnell has a weight of 20 while marths sword weighs 12 and roys weighs 13, thats my guess

 

[finalark]

Well, in Path of Radiance Ike had fairly poor moment range so that might explain it.

sword != link clone

Actually, just because two people use swords doesn't make them exactly the same.

Example: Every now and again my friends and I like to sword fight with "swords" that we made out of Duct tape and PVC pipe. I'm a fan of the good ol' two handed sword, while my friend prefers the nimble Katana.

When I fight, I take wide, slower swings and some thrusts sometimes. My friend, on the other hand, has very fast attacks that have a shorter range and are hard to track with your eyes. So my point stands.

 

[Zevox]

Well, in Path of Radiance Ike had fairly poor moment range so that might explain it.

His movement range is the same as all other foot soldiers - 6 unpromoted, 7 promoted. The only characters faster than that are mounted ones, and the only slower are heavily armored knights and magic-users. Well, and then theres the Laguz, but they're another race entirely anyway.

Zevox

 

[Windlord]

you're right he should'nt have been added or anyone from fire emblem since fire emblem sux .

biased n00b.

Ike has much slower attack animations in Radiant Dawn than In PoR, granted they used his PoR model for SSBB, but in as sense he is very much a blend of both Ikes.

Ragnell is a two handed sword in the sense that it has enough room on the hilt for at least two hands, however Ike never uses both hands unless he's is performing an overhead blow.

Ike is mad strong, so his sword really doesn't weigh him down much, thats just how he is, I did imagine him being more linkish in speed, but hey I'll take this.

Also he could be a slow FE character either to make room for a fast character like Marth, or I'm hoping that Sothe will be in it.

 

[Cless]

Why have two people from the same FE universe? Put someone in from FE4 or 5. Granted, I don't know who's popular, so I guess just put Sigurd. Or maybe he might long shot Ephraim, but I don't think that game is too popular.

 

[burrito]

It's supposed to represent his personality, Ike is a rugged mercenary, who is strong and inelegant. He is basically the opposite of Marth and this is reflected in his fighting style.

By the way, I think the B moves they chose for him (besides eruption) perfectly represent him.

that its original owner wielded both Ragnell and its counterpart blade Alondite (which is used by the Black Knight during PoR/RD) in a dual-wielding style, which would be impossible if either was a two-handed blade, much less both (and the two are identical in every way, so if one was two-handed, both would be). Ragnell was altered in Brawl to fit Ike's SSB fighting style.

I don't know anything about the Ragnell. I haven't encountered it in PoR, yet, so I'm just hypothesizing here. Do they ever state outright whether the Ragnell is a two handed sword? If it is possible for Ike to wield a two handed sword with one hand because of his exaggerated strength, then is it possible that the original wielder actually dual wields a two handed sword with the same sort of exaggerated strength?

 

[Zevox]

It's supposed to represent his personality, Ike is a rugged mercenary, who is strong and inelegant. He is basically the opposite of Marth and this is reflected in his fighting style.

The thing is, his fighting style is not supposed to be so. It was taught to him by his father, and his swordsmanship was said to be the best there ever was - far from inelegant at all, it was the most astounding display those who witnessed it ever saw. Granted, Ike's swordsmanship is less refined than his father's was, at least during PoR, but its not like he was taught an all-power no-finesse style of fighting.

I don't know anything about the Ragnell. I haven't encountered it in PoR, yet, so I'm just hypothesizing here. Do they ever state outright whether the Ragnell is a two handed sword? If it is possible for Ike to wield a two handed sword with one hand because of his exaggerated strength, then is it possible that the original wielder actually dual wields a two handed sword with the same sort of exaggerated strength?

No, it is never outright stated whether it is two-handed or not; however, the images and animation of the blades do not make them look any larger than the typical one-handed blades of the game (and there is one sword, King Ashnard's Gurgurant, which is plainly a two-handed blade from its images and animation), plus what is seen/known of the previous wielder does not give any indication of the individual having anywhere near that kind of exaggerated strength (minor spoiler:

Spoiler

the original wielder was the legendary hero of Begnion Altina, a woman who appears to have been of the myrmidon/swordsmaster class based on the one image that is given of her - think Mia, just with two swords instead of one

). And again, that sort of exaggerated strength in Ike was never hinted at in his games, only in his Brawl update.

Zevox

 

[BigTru]

Sakurai got RNG screwed.

 

[burrito]

@Zevox: Well, what I meant was that it was supposed to represent his personality, not his actual in-game fighting style. I figure that his brawl fighting style was created purely to represent Ike sort of symbolically rather than physically. That must have been why the sword was designed as a two handed weapon as well

 

[Coselm]

His slow-and-strong-ness is based off of FE10, even though his costume is circa FE9. I've read that somewhere... Anywho, from the footy I've seen, he is really slow... But who is to say how he will really play when Brawl comes out?

 

[Zevox]

@Zevox: Well, what I meant was that it was supposed to represent his personality, not his actual in-game fighting style. I figure that his brawl fighting style was created purely to represent Ike sort of symbolically rather than physically. That must have been why the sword was designed as a two handed weapon as well

Well, thats one theory. Personally, I don't really buy it, but its possible.

His slow-and-strong-ness is based off of FE10, even though his costume is circa FE9. I've read that somewhere...

I'm afraid thats not so either. Though his speed growth rate is somewhat lower in Radiant Dawn than Path of Radiance, his speed as a Hero caps higher than his strength (27 strength max and 30 speed max) and as a Vanguard it has the same cap as his strength (37 each), and he has no trouble capping both in either class. Hes certainly portrayed as much more powerful in RD, but slow-but-strong doesn't fit there at all either.

Zevox

 

[Demoncannon]

Ike should be made a little faster, but not fast... power needs to be balanced with speed.

 

[iron blade]

Ike should be made a little faster, but not fast... power needs to be balanced with speed.

i agree, he should be a little faster

 

[Hallowed Storm]

I agree he should be faster--around Link's speed would please me. The power should be taken down some, to balance out his character.

I really don't know where they are getting that Ike is as slow as he is. Ike seems like he should be a LOT faster. Also, based on Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, the Ragnell is a one-handed sword.

 

[KingDedede2]

I thought that ike was going to replace Roy because he looked like he is going to be slower and his moves and movement seemed similar to Roys but know he is even slower

 

[notftomearth7]

He shouldn't be as fast as Fox but not as slow as he is.

 

[Windlord]

Why have two people from the same FE universe? Put someone in from FE4 or 5. Granted, I don't know who's popular, so I guess just put Sigurd. Or maybe he might long shot Ephraim, but I don't think that game is too popular.

why not? they have all the zelda characters from the same game. and besides Ike could be the PoR representative, and Sothe could be the RD representative. Although I would like to see Sigurd, moreso than the return of Marth.

 

[El HP]

Ike is slow to balance his power but I agree he seems too slow hopefully it will be fixed, another thing that bothers me is the fact that his design was based of PoR not RD.

 

[Cless]

why not? they have all the zelda characters from the same game. and besides Ike could be the PoR representative, and Sothe could be the RD representative. Although I would like to see Sigurd, moreso than the return of Marth.

Yeah, but all the Zelda characters are always more or less the same regardless of game. The only real differ in age. I think it would be better to represent the whole FE franchise rather than the most recent games... and the first lord.

 

[Zoolander]

Well, if he was fast, he wouldn't be as powerful. The game needs to be balanced. Gimpyfish's thread said he kills at lower percentages than Bowser. He doesn't need speed, he's great in where he is.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I want Ike to be slow, it will add diversity. Hopefully they can make it work, but if not, they can use it as a reference for what they should do in the next game.

 

[Zevox]

they have all the zelda characters from the same game.

Correction: they have all the Zelda designs from the same game. The characters themselves come from nearly every Zelda game out there - certainly there has never been a Zelda game without Link, and there have only been one or two without Zelda (she did have a cameo in Majora's Mask, so I think the only one she was truly absent from was Link's Awakening). Fire Emblem doesn't have characters who are omnipresent like that, which is why drawing all of its characters from any one game would be foolish.

Zevox

 

[Cless]

Correction: they have all the Zelda designs from the same game. The characters themselves come from nearly every Zelda game out there - certainly there has never been a Zelda game without Link, and there have only been one or two without Zelda (she did have a cameo in Majora's Mask, so I think the only one she was truly absent from was Link's Awakening). Fire Emblem doesn't have characters who are omnipresent like that, which is why drawing all of its characters from any one game would be foolish.

Zevox

Thank you. Stated much better than I ever could.

 

[Windlord]

Correction: they have all the Zelda designs from the same game. The characters themselves come from nearly every Zelda game out there - certainly there has never been a Zelda game without Link, and there have only been one or two without Zelda (she did have a cameo in Majora's Mask, so I think the only one she was truly absent from was Link's Awakening). Fire Emblem doesn't have characters who are omnipresent like that, which is why drawing all of its characters from any one game would be foolish.

Zevox

I see what your saying, but I would argue, by putting Sothe in it would be characters from 2 games not just one. In PoR Sothe was a worthless peice of crap that pretty much no one even noticed until they found out he was a lord for RD. In RD he is an awsome Lord with significant importance, not to mention a unique style that could be brought to Brawl (knives/daggers anyone?)

I think it would be better to represent the whole FE franchise rather than the most recent games...

thats how zelda works... it's all TP stuff now, you don't see majora's mask link, or Oot link.

Sothe would make sense because he's yet another character the US is familiar with, I mean Sigurd or Celice or any other lords from the first 5 games (not including Marth of course)are pretty much unheard of unless...

1. your a pirate
2. you did your research as good FE fans should. (but most people probably don't think about it)

 

[Zevox]

I see what your saying, but I would argue, by putting Sothe in it would be characters from 2 games not just one. In PoR Sothe was a worthless peice of crap that pretty much no one even noticed until they found out he was a lord for RD. In RD he is an awsome Lord with significant importance, not to mention a unique style that could be brought to Brawl (knives/daggers anyone?)

Sothe was not a Lord in RD - hes nowhere near as important to the story as a Lord, and after the early chapters he can die without it being a game over. If anything, he was a Jeigan (early game pre-promote, main task is to protect the Lord, doesn't turn out too good in the end - all hes missing is being a Paladin, and the fact that he turns out better than previous Jeigans). The Lords of RD were Micaiah, Ike, and Elincia, with Sanaki and Tibarn being arguable.

And considering Ike and Sothe both come from the same two games, its the same circumstance as with any other character from PoR/RD. Ike already has that corner of the series covered. The only other character from PoR/RD I could see making it is Micaiah, and her only if she was intended to be a RD add and they don't remove her due to the delay making that a waste.

Zevox

 

[scotchtape622]

Micaiah would be a good character choice IMO, but we do already have one light magic using girl...

 

[burrito]

Well, thats one theory. Personally, I don't really buy it, but its possible.

I really think it is the only theory as to why Ike is so slow. There has to be a reason why. You don't think Sakurai just made Ike slow to annoy Fire Emblem fans, did you?

The thing is RPG characters like Ike, Marth, Ness, their moves are open a lot to interpretation. You see Ike fight, sure, but you don't really get a good idea of what a constant flowing fight would be like with those characters. So, I think Sakurai, instead of deciding to go off what the actual game implies there fighting style to be, he uses his artistic license and makes a fighting style that more represents the characters personality to make them more unique.

Take Ness, for example, it has always bothered me that he borrowed PK attacks from Paula for Melee and 64. In Earthbound all of his PK powers (besides PK Rockin) were healing or stat changing. Sakurai probably figured that giving him PK fire and PK Thunder would better represent his psychic abilities. Something else that is interesting about Ness, is that if Ness fought more like he did in Earthbound, he would wield his bat the whole time. Ness always fought with some sort of weapon in Earthbound, but it was reserved only for his Smash attacks. Characters like Link, Marth, and the ice climbers constantly use weapons with disjointed hitboxes, so why not? Again, I assume that Sakurai wanted to give Ness more attacks that represented his psychic-ness. Also, he gave him some direct kick and punch attacks to represent his identity as a small boy with stubby limbs.

 

[Zevox]

I really think it is the only theory as to why Ike is so slow. There has to be a reason why. You don't think Sakurai just made Ike slow to annoy Fire Emblem fans, did you?

No, I don't - like I said, my theory is that he was made slow to differentiate him from Marth, since had he gone as his portrayal in Fire Emblem itself implies he should have, he would statistically be very similar to him; only a little stronger and heavier. I think that makes more sense than that it was a reflection of his personality, since I really don't think it is suited to his personality personally. In any event, both are valid theories, and only the developers know ultimately.

Zevox

 

[burrito]

No, I don't - like I said, my theory is that he was made slow to differentiate him from Marth, since had he gone as his portrayal in Fire Emblem itself implies he should have, he would statistically be very similar to him; only a little stronger and heavier. I think that makes more sense than that it was a reflection of his personality, since I really don't think it is suited to his personality personally. In any event, both are valid theories, and only the developers know ultimately.

Well, I really think it's actually both. By making Ike a slow character, he was both successfully making Ike different from Marth and reflecting his personality. Really, if Sakurai just wanted to make Ike different from Marth, there were tons of ways to do that. So, Ike was differentiated from Marth in a way that would reflect his personality. It works the inverse way, too. Having Ike have a similar fighting style to Marth would be weird when they have such different personalities. So, Ike's personality was reflected by differentiating him from Marth.

By the way, I missed the part where you stated your theory as to why Ike was different from Marth, my fault.

 

[Windlord]

Sothe was not a Lord in RD - hes nowhere near as important to the story as a Lord

he may not be a commander, but he is the commanders right hand man, which makes him very important. Also the fact that he is promoted automatically as part of the story makes him more important than others, after all only Lords promote automatically besides him so far. I dunno about the dieing thing, I never let him die, but he is very important to the story so i don't see how he could officially "die" and not still be in it.

No other Jeigan has had anywhere near as much attention as him. Previous ones can just be dismissed entirley.

technically you may be right that he's not an "official" lord because he's always with micaiah who gives the orders, but he's on the cover and I don't see Elincia, Ike, or Sanaki on there, so to say "hes nowhere near as important to the story as a Lord" is a bit of a stretch I think.

The point of this post is Sothe>Micaiah>the rest of the RD cast (besides Ike) and I'm not sayign he WILL be in brawl, but i think he has a chance. For the record I will be just as happy to see a character from 1,2,3,4, or 5 as long as they are cool. Marth would be cool if they made his DS version and spiced up his manliness a bit. (by giving him some muscles)

 

[Zevox]

he may not be a commander, but he is the commanders right hand man, which makes him very important.

And what makes him more important than any other "right hand men" of FE games? Jeigan? Marcus? Soren? Near as I can tell, nothing.

Also the fact that he is promoted automatically as part of the story makes him more important than others, after all only Lords promote automatically besides him so far.

It doesn't make him more important, it just means he got special treatment in that regard.

I dunno about the dieing thing, I never let him die, but he is very important to the story so i don't see how he could officially "die" and not still be in it.

Hes not important to the story at all, though. Past the scene where

Spoiler

Tibarn nearly kills him

, hes no longer required for anything. His role never goes beyond simply "protect Micaiah." That is why he can die without it being a game over after a certain point in the game.

No other Jeigan has had anywhere near as much attention as him.

True, but then again, Radiant Dawn gives a lot more spotlight to a lot of the characters than previous FE games. What other game gave common soldiers as much of a role as Soren, Nephenee, Geoffrey, or Bastian had in Radiant Dawn, to name a few? Hell, I'd argue most of them have a greater role in the game than Sothe, to be honest.

technically you may be right that he's not an "official" lord because he's always with micaiah who gives the orders, but he's on the cover and I don't see Elincia, Ike, or Sanaki on there,

I see Soren, Titania, Mist, Reyson, and Leanne all on the cover of Path of Radiance. Does that make them important to it's story? Reyson and Leanne are to a limited degree (though like Sothe, nowhere near Lord status), true, but the others certainly are not. being on the cover does not make a character important.

so to say "hes nowhere near as important to the story as a Lord" is a bit of a stretch I think.

No, its perfectly accurate. Compared to Ike, Micaiah, and Elincia (and Sanaki and Tibarn, if you count them), hes a negligible influence on the story. If it weren't for Micaiah, most of part 1 would never happen. If it weren't for Micaiah and Sanaki, the game would have ended at the end of part 3, with

Spoiler

Ashera awakened by Lehran's Medallion to destroy the world outright

. If it weren't for Elincia and Tibarn, the game's wars would have gone very differently. And I really shouldn't have to explain Ike. Sothe does nothing of importance even close to them - he just acts over-protective towards Micaiah. Hell, even the Black Knight is more important than him, and hes just a flunky for the main villains.

The point of this post is Sothe>Micaiah>the rest of the RD cast (besides Ike)

I absolutely disagree. For Brawl, Ike > Micaiah, and no one else has a shot (and Micaiah is a long shot herself). For importance to RD, Micaiah > Ike > Sephiran > Tibarn > Sanaki = Elincia > I could go on, but Sothe won't be appearing any time soon even if I do.

Zevox

 

[Windlord]

You make good points for the most part. Although I'm sensing alot of biased opinions from both of us.

No, its perfectly accurate. Compared to Ike, Micaiah, and Elincia (and Sanaki and Tibarn, if you count them), hes a negligible influence on the story. If it weren't for Micaiah, most of part 1 would never happen. If it weren't for Micaiah and Sanaki, the game would have ended at the end of part 3, with Ashera awakened by Lehran's Medallion to destroy the world outright. If it weren't for Elincia and Tibarn, the game's wars would have gone very differently. And I really shouldn't have to explain Ike. Sothe does nothing of importance even close to them - he just acts over-protective towards Micaiah. Hell, even the Black Knight is more important than him, and hes just a flunky for the main villains.

If it weren't for Sothe Micaiah would've been captured/killed in the first video. Also

Spoiler

he does marry her making him the husband of the Queen of Daein... I'd say thats important.

I absolutely disagree. For Brawl, Ike > Micaiah, and no one else has a shot (and Micaiah is a long shot herself). For importance to RD, Micaiah > Ike > Sephiran > Tibarn > Sanaki = Elincia > I could go on, but Sothe won't be appearing any time soon even if I do.

I agree with Ike>all (thats why I said "besides Ike")

One thing I think we are missing is yeah those people are important to the game, but they really don't have much battle quality, Sothe is a fighter through and through, not a pansy mage senator. He's more apealing all around as a character (sorry kinda opinionated there) but he just seems more like the brawl type.

I could go on, but Sothe won't be appearing any time soon even if I do.

I hate to be a literalist jerk, but he already has "appeared"

Now don't take me wrong I know those are just stickers and I'm not saying those confirm him, I'm just sayin... they're there.