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Should there be more then lvl 9

zombie7775

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
1,767
Location
Ohio
In SSB the lvl 9 was way too easy, and in Melee the lvl 9 was too easy even with some handicap. So what Im asking is how many people think that on Brawl there should be higher lvls of computer to face. Im thinking at least 20 lvls. If there is something I have missed when I seached for this topic then sorry but I didnt see anything.

Is there anything confirmed about how many lvls of computer there will be, if so can someone post a link.
 

Pika420

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
38
i've thought about this too, it gets frustrating fighting link and simply saying "hookshot...roll. hookshot...roll...etc." i agree there needs to be a higher CPU level, or if not make the difference between one and another significant. like implement lvl. 9 CPU with the games' creators' AI or something, like the ghost racers in Mario Kart DS. or something, i dont know, but definitely make the CPU worth fighting against.

well, i just thought of something: Wii will be internet compatible, there's no way they'd leave their biggest game out of it, so if anything there will ALWAYS be somebody to play online.
 

nux23

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
526
Location
Miami
I think you should be able to pick the cpu's course of action as if to be evaisive, to not stop atackin till you die, and other
 

Wash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
112
Location
FL
I agree with Pika420 in that they should keep the levels the same and up to 9, to make it uniform throughout all of the games, but just make the level differences more significant. That's a good idea. But then you will always have someone to play online...that is to say you have online, so I really think a bigger level gap would be the best.
 

gamelover15

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
95
Location
Las Vegas
Maybe not making more than 9 levels, but just making level 9 tougher and harder. AI computer would be nice, too. Also, making level 9 smarter and not stupid >.<
 

Eci4

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
912
Location
Silver Lake Minnesota
There shouldn't be something higher than 9, they should just make 9s better...

as for handicap, I now it is used with computers sometimes, but I always found it as a way to even things up for my friends who really arent that into smash, so I hope they still have that
 

gigayoshi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
216
Location
San Jose CA
A perfect computer is what I want! Powershields every time, dodges every time, etc. That would be a nice challenge because you would have to beat them using their lag. Imagine a perfect computer Fox, almost no lag! The only computer I can't defeat is CF right now. Also if they could update AI online then they could add more and more until it was unstoppable! It's probably not going to happen, but it would be nice!
 

Zephyr

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
1,639
Location
SD, CA
LOL @ Hyrule'sOneHope's sig. Did you get that idea from my rules? On topic, if you can't find a topic by searching, actually LOOK at the pages of the forum. In here, there WILL be a thread on what you're posting about, unless it''s INCREDIBLY original.
 

LarkOhiya

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
185
Location
Niles, MI
what you guys are all saying is great, but your missing something. they can't just make computers "better" because they want to. I'm sure that they made lvl 9's as strong and skillful as they could. They COULD make them have perfect timeing though. Although you would still be fighting them by exploiting weakness in their fighting code so I don't know how fun that would end up being.

As for using advanced tech. You have to recognice that as programers they only have a finite time in order to create the game and the code that makes the fighters...well fight. They don't have time to figure out the tech that players figure out over years of play testing. Also anything that they DO find is tested and tweeked as they see fit to undo any broken fighting technique.

so. Expect better fighters in brawl, BUT realize that within a game with MUCH more freedom and dynamic possiblities then most other fighters, programing to take advatage of it to the point that humans do is nigh impossible. Anything they make will be based on a patter. A pattern that can be easily exploited and abused when it is figured out.


Just think of a "simple" fighter like street fighter or Dead or alive 4. at their base any movment that the player can execute is targeted at the player. their is only one level surface to fight on. Players are always a relativly set distance away from each other and always react the same way to the same hit regardless of damage. You have quick attacks strong attacks and projectiles and throws. Some hit high, some hit low, and some hit middle. All attacks are preprogramed into button combonations and "Perfect" orders for buttons presses are already present.

With all the set perameters within the fighter programing the best possible response to a players attack is not difficult. they attempt a grab? the perfect computer will counter the grab and do the best attack that its been programed to do after a grab. Low attack? jump and attack. Also all the best moves and preset fighting styles have been imputed so that they can do their crazy neer infinite combo if the programers see fight.

Everything is always changing in smash so that programing computers along these lines is impossible. there are no easy out to simulate skill by making CPU's perform their combos flawlessly in smash because THERE ARE NONE.

where as traditinal fighters are a game of rock/paper/ scissors and the counter is easy to impliment in code. Smash is a game of many possibilitys where rock may beat paper, but that still leaves knives and swords and pole arms AND halberds and throwing stars to take rock... Damage is constantly affecting the opponent and not only that each fighter is affected differently so that even programing attempts to juggle are nullifide because it needs to be tailor made to the: level, fighter, who they fight, damage, number of players, where in ths stage each opponent is at any given time (above on a platform, of the stage above in the air in the middle above in the air at the edge of a stage, on and on), and heaven forbid if someone turns items on!

I think I've rambled on long enough about how its much harder to make a compatent CPU in this game then others so im going to stop now.

IF by some grace of the gods they are able to make a fighter that is able to calculate all of these random facters then they deserve a gaming award to end all gaming awards, and a programing award, and a keeping your sanity award.
 

Zephyr

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
1,639
Location
SD, CA
+rep for this guy! Too good. It's about time someone intelligent posted in these forums.
 

LarkOhiya

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
185
Location
Niles, MI
thanks Goldenmuffin, I try my best although one thought out post does not a recognized board member make.
 

Falco&Victory

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
2,544
Location
South Hill, Washinton
THIS HAS BEEN POSTED!!!Plz,stop saying another topic of this does not exist,cause at least 2 others do.Plz stop posting here,it is a waste of bandwidth.A mod here will agree with me.
 

TAMASHI

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
105
Maybe not a higher lvl, just SMARTER cpus...I don't see why you should make a higher lvl when you could average out the skill programming into 9 levels, as usual. =P
 

LarkOhiya

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
185
Location
Niles, MI
maybe I would have posted in the oldest topic if that one was on the front page, had been linked to from yet another topic conserning CPU as apposed to this one, and if you had posted a link to it instead of scorning us for talking about something that we wanted to in the wrong place. I don't think I'll post here anymore just so the topic dies and you are appeased.
 

~.~!

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
82
Location
St.Albert Alberta
Falco&Victory said:
THIS HAS BEEN POSTED!!!Plz,stop saying another topic of this does not exist,cause at least 2 others do.Plz stop posting here,it is a waste of bandwidth.A mod here will agree with me.
Nobody said there weren't any other threads like this we just said he did do a search and found nothing.
 

zombie7775

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
1,767
Location
Ohio
Grmo said:
Oh God, I don't need faster spamming and smashing to deal with. Please never let Sakurai get a whiff of this.
You dont have to face tougher opponents it would just be better for people who want a bigger chalange. Its cool if you dont want harder lvls.
 

Grmo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
2,128
Location
Plymouth Rock, eating Thanksgiving dinner
I dunno. I really dislike fighting computers at all; they just ruin my playing. I used to be able to practice against them when I played like them, but after a while it gets too predictable. Usually I just fight level ones so I can practice combos. If I want a challenge, I'll go to a tournament. Now; if the hight levels in SSBB were designed to fight like humans (using advanced techniques and mindgames, assuming the AI is decent), then that would be the best thing ever. Oh well. I'm gonna drop out of this discussion.
 

Merh

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
5
Location
Florence, SC
i actually hope they just make it to 10 levels...too many and it would just get quite repetitive and u wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference. but by level 10...i want it to have the toughness of a pro...wavedashing, short hops, shffl's, and any other advanced techniques. that would be much better practice than the current level 9's. they just arn't very smart even for me, and i'm only a mediocre smash player (i'd prob die against a level 10 that had the specs that i mentioned above...but hey, thats why it would be good for practice)
 

HyrulesOneHope

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
371
Location
Marilla/East Aurora, NY(Also, if you want to smash
Merh said:
i actually hope they just make it to 10 levels...too many and it would just get quite repetitive and u wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference. but by level 10...i want it to have the toughness of a pro...wavedashing, short hops, shffl's, and any other advanced techniques. that would be much better practice than the current level 9's. they just arn't very smart even for me, and i'm only a mediocre smash player (i'd prob die against a level 10 that had the specs that i mentioned above...but hey, thats why it would be good for practice)
I totaly agree. But I think they should make a lever so hard that...look down

Cpu vs Ken, Isai, Azen

That the computer could actualy stand up to them. You would feel so good about yourself when you won. Just think about that.
 

zombie7775

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
1,767
Location
Ohio
Falco&Victory said:
THIS HAS BEEN POSTED!!!Plz,stop saying another topic of this does not exist,cause at least 2 others do.Plz stop posting here,it is a waste of bandwidth.A mod here will agree with me.
If you can please post the link to the posts that you found of this same topic.

If you dont I will never believe you.
 

EnFerris

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
274
Our Computers go up to eleven.


I agree with Lark, though. I would rather Sakurai and his team work on new characters than better computers. That way I can play with three to five friends as fun characters rather than struggle to defeat three to five computers.
 

LeonVII

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
95
I've been thinking this myself. The lvl 9's are too predictable and too easy which makes the game boring when you have no one else to play with.
 

zombie7775

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
1,767
Location
Ohio
They need to be less predictable and better of a fighter. If the computer could counter your attacks and do advanced techniques. They should be able to juggle you also. Also whatever else would make them better.
 

Falco-Z

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
91
I think that it should have a harder CPU AI, but not sure how well that would work. Seems like the easiest thing would be to simply have CPU's that have a chance of doing random things to break up the predictability as well as being able to stay away from you or avoid you when at higher damage.
 

Falco-Z

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
91
Before discussing this idea has anyone else than me also considered that this is a Wifi enabled game, so there is little need for CPU at all?
Else than in Single Player that is...
 

zombie7775

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
1,767
Location
Ohio
Before discussing this idea has anyone else than me also considered that this is a Wifi enabled game, so there is little need for CPU at all?
Else than in Single Player that is...
I have thought of this and I still think there need to be computers just in case for some reason you dont want to face humans. Also the computers can help you get used to your character before going into the WiFi. That way to get better at your character you dont have to go through 1 player mode several times. Once people learn there character I doubt too many will stick with just fighting them. I know once I get used to everything in the game I will be on WiFi all the time. I still think there need to be more computers lvls though.
 

maxpower

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Messages
51
Location
West Lafayette, Indiana
Our Computers go up to eleven.


I agree with Lark, though. I would rather Sakurai and his team work on new characters than better computers. That way I can play with three to five friends as fun characters rather than struggle to defeat three to five computers.


Was that a Spinal Tap reference?! Well done.

I don't really care about there being 20 AI levels. I just wish they would make it so that the highest AI level doesn't simultaneously have superhuman reflexes and the ability to powershield at will, even in the middle of fighting other players, while at the same time being stupid enough to walk right into motion sensor bombs. Also, things like Luigi's refusal to EVER use his up-B move to recover is a huge glaring error.
 
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