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Should Gimping be legal

Should Gimping be legal

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NovaSmash

NovaSmash

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Killer asked me to make this thread because he said he didn't have time to make it. Personally I think it's silly to ask this. Here's what killer said to me:

[5/11/2014 11:37:41 PM] Killer: Hey dude
[5/11/2014 11:38:19 PM] gavin mathis: hey
[5/11/2014 11:40:20 PM] gavin mathis: ?
[5/11/2014 11:43:36 PM] Killer: well i been playing LD alot
[5/11/2014 11:43:46 PM] Killer: and just question if Gimp should be legal or not
[5/11/2014 11:44:00 PM] Killer: like it just takes all the fun out of the game for me when i play him
[5/11/2014 11:44:23 PM] gavin mathis: uh
[5/11/2014 11:44:33 PM] Killer: and i was gonna ask if i should make a thread
[5/11/2014 11:44:40 PM] gavin mathis: u should
[5/11/2014 11:44:49 PM] gavin mathis: i mean
[5/11/2014 11:45:03 PM] gavin mathis: i try not to gimp in friendlies
[5/11/2014 11:45:10 PM] gavin mathis: but in tourneys anything goes
[12:07:06 AM] Killer: can you make the thread
[12:07:11 AM] Killer: hands are really fully atm
[12:08:23 AM] gavin mathis: no
[12:16:29 AM] Killer: if you're gonna host the 12 character battle than you should not host fox
[12:16:40 AM] Killer: Because i know once LD joins its gonna be gimp city
[12:16:46 AM] Killer: its just not gonna be fun
[12:17:02 AM] gavin mathis: im not hosting anything
[12:17:06 AM] gavin mathis: that was wotg
[12:20:05 AM] Killer: well you tell wotg that than
[12:24:26 AM] gavin mathis: y dont u tell him
[12:34:09 AM] Killer: hands are full
 
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caneut

Smash Ace
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945
[5/11/2014 11:45:03 PM] gavin mathis: i try not to gimp in friendlies
[5/11/2014 11:45:10 PM] gavin mathis: but in tourneys anything goes

+1 to gav i like u

I think tournys should be judged based system. Points go to who wins, but points are also given to flash, and deducted for gimps.
 
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Cobrevolution

Cobrevolution

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madcuzgimp

if you can't utilize 64's insanely ridiculous z2d combo system you don't deserve to gimp
 
rjgbadger

rjgbadger

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I love the LD salt from killer. Killer is also the same dude who thinks that Yoshi beats Kirby.

Dude you play kirby, and you're part of the reason hyrule got banned due to excessive camping, and you're talking about fox on DL being gay. Just look at you. literally 1 utilt will lead to death on fox, it isn't fair that fox does the same off a grab?
 
Fireblaster

Fireblaster

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caneut said:
[5/11/2014 11:45:03 PM]
I think tournys should be judged based system. Points go to who wins, but points are also given to flash, and deducted for gimps.
Click to expand...
I almost threw up reading this.

Also the notion of making gimping "against the rules" is absolutely absurd. I'm going to give killer the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's just being super salty against LD and didn't actually think this through so I'll try to explain this.

The only way that something can be banned is if the ban is enforceable, the thing being banned is discrete, and if that something dominates the metagame superhard or it stagnates the metagame (by dominating so hard that the only counter is itself). Banning gimping fills none of these requirements.

It's not the one strategy above all that dominates everything. Spacing, defensive play, and death combos play as much of a part in the metagame as gimping if not more so it is already not warranted to ban gimping. How would you even define what a gimp is in order to ban it? Killing below 20%? 40%? 30%? As soon as you arrive to a single value, it will never be clear and objective because it is always possible to argue that it should be 24% or 26% instead of 25%. Gimping is not a discrete thing that can be clearly stated in a ruleset. You can't even enforce a ban like this if it occurred. You'd need to have a way to show that someone clearly broke the rules by "gimping illegally". Have fun doing that when there's no match recording on every station possible and no stats recording from the game to show it.

This isn't even getting into ways that people can abuse the **** out of this rule. Oh you hit me with a smash attack that sent me towards the ledge? Oops I held my joystick the wrong way for a second and I fell off the stage because I "messed up" my recovery. I now "made you" gimp me even though it's against the rules and you weren't trying to.

TL;DR - Literally zero reasons to ban gimping. If killer actually implied banning fox over any other character, well that's something too hilarious for words and someone else can respond to that claim instead of me.

Source: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html
 
C

caneut

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Fireblaster said:
I almost threw up reading this.

Also the notion of making gimping "against the rules" is absolutely absurd. I'm going to give killer the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's just being super salty against LD and didn't actually think this through so I'll try to explain this.

The only way that something can be banned is if the ban is enforceable, the thing being banned is discrete, and if that something dominates the metagame superhard or it stagnates the metagame (by dominating so hard that the only counter is itself). Banning gimping fills none of these requirements.

It's not the one strategy above all that dominates everything. Spacing, defensive play, and death combos play as much of a part in the metagame as gimping if not more so it is already not warranted to ban gimping. How would you even define what a gimp is in order to ban it? Killing below 20%? 40%? 30%? As soon as you arrive to a single value, it will never be clear and objective because it is always possible to argue that it should be 24% or 26% instead of 25%. Gimping is not a discrete thing that can be clearly stated in a ruleset. You can't even enforce a ban like this if it occurred. You'd need to have a way to show that someone clearly broke the rules by "gimping illegally". Have fun doing that when there's no match recording on every station possible and no stats recording from the game to show it.

This isn't even getting into ways that people can abuse the **** out of this rule. Oh you hit me with a smash attack that sent me towards the ledge? Oops I held my joystick the wrong way for a second and I fell off the stage because I "messed up" my recovery. I now "made you" gimp me even though it's against the rules and you weren't trying to.

TL;DR - Literally zero reasons to ban gimping. If killer actually implied banning fox over any other character, well that's something too hilarious for words and someone else can respond to that claim instead of me.

Source: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html
Click to expand...
In no way was my post serious, and in all I was going for satire. Common, how do you people not know be by now.

My stance is, Gimpings is gay as **** and boring to play against but it's how you play better and playing better wins the tournament.

What skill would flourish if gimping was banned? And how could you force yourself NOT to gimp if a satisfying way? Would you just stop a combo and let your opponent walk around? No. Because that's ****ing dumb.

Part of being good is knowing every character and every attack that would lead to a death. Spacing is the most important skill to acquire when trying to get better, because it's more than just spacing a character, it's spacing every characters attacks based upon its priority. You must know every position that every attack can be reached and performed into high percentages or deaths. You would watch your spacing against a grab much more than an attack that statistically has been proven to not be combo'd into.

Nothing should be banned that can not be fiercely enforced. Unlike my post before, I do not wish for this game to be decided on by judges, because video games cannot be decided by judges.
 
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Villainy

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There should be a rule that you have to get your opponent to 100% before taking the stock. problem solved.
 
KoRoBeNiKi

KoRoBeNiKi

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nah ban kirby's up tilt, then hyrule is legal again.

i was also thinking of an odd idea where players are allowed to go away from that dumb left slope on hyrule so that a game can continue.
 
Sedda

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I personally loved playing fox dittos with LD when I started. Playing him taught me about habits and how much someone can beat you with a single concept until you finally adapt after it's been beaten into you.

I don't get it. It's in the game and it's nothing you can't learn how to deal with.
 
Komotonoto

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MAYBE we should settle ALL of this with a game of Tekken 5 Dark Ressurection Online....

 
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KeroKeroppi

KeroKeroppi

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wait

wait wait wait one mother ****ing second

people actually think that zero to deaths are more impressive than gimps?

i'm not even talking about the absurd op right now

i'm talking about the previous posts

like

what

99% of zero to deaths are memorized series of inputs that require little to no mental effort

99% of gimps require hard reads and flawless executions

in almost every case a gimp is 100000X more impressive than a zero to death

what the ****
 
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rawrimamonster

rawrimamonster

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LD plays like a ******, it's what he does. Dont get grabbed, simple as that. I found out it takes away a lot of his game if he cant gimp, because then he has to play legitimate Fox dittos. Either that or pick kirby and tilt spam until he stops being a dumbass and plays 64 the right way. I agree being gimp dependent makes 64 lame as ****, But you guys asked for this when you let dreamland only be a thing thinking it'll make you magically better like the Japanese...sorry kids it doesn't work like that. Really, in my eyes theres no mental gymnastics that can justify the gimp dependency of the new community. So if the only way to make people stop playing like that is to play something gayer then do it.

Also directly pointed at Killer. Stop playing Keyboard, its limiting your options. I say this as someone who is a known keyboard player way back when, just stop. You're not a special snowflake for using a limited option. It's going to hold you back son, you're better than that. Move on and join the 64 controller master race.
 
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S

SheerMadness

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LD can combo now too. A year ago he was purely throw -> gimp but not anymore.

Anyway if you don't wanna get gimped learn Yoshi.
 
KeroKeroppi

KeroKeroppi

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i'm still mind ****ed that people don't like gimping

like

gimping is so impressive

wtf am i reading i don't even know

you guys are ****ing crazy
 
Ceasar

Ceasar

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I'll politely admit, I find the thought of prohibiting gimping in competitive play rather laughable, as it is clearly a vital mechanism in effectively defeating one's opponent, but I'm sure we know that already, right? (lol)

KeroKeroppi said:
i'm still mind ****ed that people don't like gimping

like

gimping is so impressive

wtf am i reading i don't even know

you guys are ****ing crazy
Click to expand...
In my opinion, only against characters with adequate/great recoveries, but not so much against characters with ****** and predictable ones. But, I'm just going to assume you're trolling. (lol)
 
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Cobrevolution

Cobrevolution

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yes joey because fthrow -> upb with dk on falcon is extremely impressive, and we all know shine -> shine -> ledgehog on falcon is the most difficult thing in the game :awesome:
 
Battlecow

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I wrote 9 different ten-character comments and then deleted them all

This thread upsets me for more than one reason
 
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