Short hop bair > jump > fair?

[Tarp]

Is it possible to do a bair, jump, then a fair in the same short hop? M2K does it in a video (youtu. be/s63pPeyWasw?t=51m15s because I can't link yet), but I feel like whenever I do the bair, I don't have time to jump after it. Do I just need to bair faster, or maybe jump faster? I don't see this tech much, but thought it was an interesting mixup.

 

[harMoNiC]

You have to get the b-air out in the first 5 frames of the SH and depending on when you do get it out, the DJ frame window is 2-4 frames.

In contrast, for a double f-air, you have to get the first f-air out within 6 frames of the SH and the second f-air frame window is 1-5 frames.

So it seems that a SH b-air DJ is only marginally more difficult to get than a double f-air.

If you're interested in the specific frame windows for each possible timing: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15eMwyZbdPLsO5luSVFB_MhLn6tIwgDR0qYLsr1iqsNk/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Xyzz]

Are you sure about that?
Super doodleman's page (http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Marth_frames_11.6.05.txt) has SH air time at 38 frames, fair being interruptible at 30 and bair at 35, which would pretty much coincide with my personal experience of sh double fair being fairly easy (my fingers are finally picking up speed yay <3), and sh bair DJ being somewhat challenging.

 

[harMoNiC]

Are you sure about that?
Super doodleman's page [can't post links] has SH air time at 38 frames, fair being interruptible at 30 and bair at 35, which would pretty much coincide with my personal experience of sh double fair being fairly easy (my fingers are finally picking up speed yay <3), and sh bair DJ being somewhat challenging.

The main consideration is that jump comes out on frame 1 while f-air's first hitbox doesn't come out until frame 4. A f1 or f2 f-air gives you a 5-frame window for a second f-air which projects a hitbox. If you "count" the SH double fairs that don't extend a hitbox, then that frame window is actually 8 frames given a frame-perfect f-air #1, but it's not a very useful double f-air so I didn't count it.

Also, I wouldn't say "SH b-air DJ is only marginally more difficult than double f-air" is completely objective. It actually depends on a bit on your timing. If you f-air f1 or f2 after entering the jump animation, then you have a 5-frame window to hit the second fair, and it just becomes a shorter window in successive frames — on the contrary, SH b-air DJ is actually harder if you get a frame-perfect b-air (check the link for specifics on what I mean).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

no it's impossible m2k was cheating