Shine Hit-Confirms

[Diabolical PIe]

So while I was playing some friendlies at CEO, this guy off-handedly mentioned that he was using shine to hit-confirm and u-smash, rather than just throw out a risky move. I didn't have the chance to ask him more about it, but I'd love to incorporate something so safe and strong into my game. I've seen people combo into shine-usmash and shine-grab before... does this only work out of running shine, or is it possible to do this out of standing shine? Is it character dependant? (I know running shine-usmash is pretty easy on Sheik, for example) I really just want more information. Thank you so much!

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

So while I was playing some friendlies at CEO, this guy off-handedly mentioned that he was using shine to hit-confirm and u-smash, rather than just throw out a risky move. I didn't have the chance to ask him more about it, but I'd love to incorporate something so safe and strong into my game. I've seen people combo into shine-usmash and shine-grab before... does this only work out of running shine, or is it possible to do this out of standing shine? Is it character dependant? (I know running shine-usmash is pretty easy on Sheik, for example) I really just want more information. Thank you so much!

Waveshine usmash, running shine usmash, and might work in standing shine if you're frame perfect.

 

[Diabolical PIe]

Waveshine usmash, running shine usmash, and might work in standing shine if you're frame perfect.

So it isn't character dependant at all?

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

So it isn't character dependant at all?

Forgot to mention that, my bad, it is. Obvious choices are Peach, Falcon, Link, Sheik. Pretty sure frame perfect waveshine u smash works one everyone though.

 

[Diabolical PIe]

Forgot to mention that, my bad, it is. Obvious choices are Peach, Falcon, Link, Sheik. Pretty sure frame perfect waveshine u smash works one everyone though.

Great, thank you so much!

 

[Y-L]

You can only waveshine->usmash characters that don't fall down from shine and it's not possible on all characters. For example, you wont be able to waveshine->usmash luigi or ice climbers because they just go too far from the shine. Marth is pretty much the hardest one to do it to and you need basically an angle perfect wavedash. Waveshine->usmash (or dsmash is sometimes preferred close to the ledge against characters that dont die from the usmash until a higher percent and are easier to edgeguard from a dsmash like falcon for example) is good against peach, falcon, sheik. You don't want to do it every time though, it's always good to mix it up. You can waveshine->grab as well which is really good.

For those who do fall down from the shine (fox and falco are the main culprits) you can waveshine->jab reset into anything really, like uair, grab, usmash, nair, drill assuming they don't tech the shine.

 

[Comet7]

You can waveshine up smash Luigi if you're frame perfect.

You can shine to illusion Luigi, but it's not a true combo. A really easy confirm (well, compared to up smash) from shine on Luigi is dash attack.

 

[Diabolical PIe]

I'm not talking about waveshining here. I'm talking about dash dancing in neutral, then doing a running shine and using the shine as a hit-confirm to up smash immediately out of shine for the kill. You can also do this with grab. If you're fast enough, you have your momentum from your run, so you can do this to any character. You can also hit-confirm a grab with this. Apparently, you can even use your momentum from a wavedash into a shine to do this.

Thanks for your replies, but I just wanted to clarify. This is NOT waveshining we're talking about.

 

[Y-L]

I'm not talking about waveshining here. I'm talking about dash dancing in neutral, then doing a running shine and using the shine as a hit-confirm to up smash immediately out of shine for the kill. You can also do this with grab. If you're fast enough, you have your momentum from your run, so you can do this to any character. You can also hit-confirm a grab with this. Apparently, you can even use your momentum from a wavedash into a shine to do this.

Thanks for your replies, but I just wanted to clarify. This is NOT waveshining we're talking about.

Yes you can hit confirm that on anyone if they don't tech the shine but if they move far from the shine it's very hard. People don't use it because it's such a big commitment and you can usually get something equal or better by waveshining instead. Also why commit to the shine into it when you can just running usmash or grab instead. It's safer and the shine only does like 5 percent.

 

[Diabolical PIe]

Yes you can hit confirm that on anyone if they don't tech the shine but if they move far from the shine it's very hard. People don't use it because it's such a big commitment and you can usually get something equal or better by waveshining instead. Also why commit to the shine into it when you can just running usmash or grab instead. It's safer and the shine only does like 5 percent.

In what universe running up smash is safer than running shine? The idea is to run-up shine in place of a random up-smash, and react accordingly if it gets shielded or not. The reason this is preferable to waveshining in certain situations is that it's technically possible on all characters, even those that fall down during shine (you hit them before they have the chance to tech). If course, a high level opponent might react and SDI down/away, so I don't know how that would affect things.

 

[Y-L]

In what universe running up smash is safer than running shine? The idea is to run-up shine in place of a random up-smash, and react accordingly if it gets shielded or not. The reason this is preferable to waveshining in certain situations is that it's technically possible on all characters, even those that fall down during shine (you hit them before they have the chance to tech). If course, a high level opponent might react and SDI down/away, so I don't know how that would affect things.

Lol you can't react for a running shine usmash, you have to commit to the usmash as soon as you input the shine since there's a very small frame window. Why would you running shine usmash (aside from style) if you can get an equal or better confirm off a running waveshine? For people who fall down from shine, you can thunders combo and if they don't, then waveshine usmash/dsmash. That would be the only use for it is for those who go too far from shine and even then I don't know if shine usmash is confirmed, but if it is you're definitely not going to be able to react to the shine hitting.

 

[Boomhound]

For people who fall down from shine, you can thunders combo and if they don't, then waveshine usmash/dsmash.

Well in the theory-crafting vacuum where everyone plays optimally...
You can smash DI the jab-reset attempt, you'll see Westballz do it consistently and punish with a shine or Nair against spacies. (Smash DI'ing the jab up gets you airborne, not sure if it works at most percents). I'd assume you can similarly punish with Sheik Nair or any other quick start-up moves, maybe even Marth down B.
In such situations shine-Usmash would be safer.

Having said that though a potential counter to the smash DI could be to double-jab instead of single-jabbing when you go for the reset- but I haven't seen it in practice :D.