Shields and Dodging are stupid

[Supersmashbrothers.]

Mommy! PEOPLE ARE BETTER THAN ME AT SMASH It seems like WAA is using them and it's really freaking WAA because WAA WAA either WAA away or using cheap WAA shields and WAASto negate attacks. It's completely unfair and ruins the game. MOMMY ITS NOT FAIR HOW I'M BAD AT THIS GAME!

Fixed.

 

[smashbroskilla]

I feel Sm4sh's online has made a significant improvement, and I only occasionally have bad but tolerable input lag.

Though I play a majority of FG which is either full low level/causal players, players who lack game knowledge, or the occasional decent player. (Rarely a good player)

A player can work around defenses easily if they know how to. I'm an aggressive player, not a defensive player. Hence what I said in my above post.

Grab counters shield. Spacing can potentially spare you of a shield grab or punish.

Rolls can be baited and punished if they are repetitive or not mixed up, and if you can't hit a smash attack on them, get them off stage and/or KO them with a kill move other than a Smash attack.

It's really annoying to hear people say this is a purely defensive game, when it's not.

It's leaps and bounds over Brawl online. I still think rolling needs to have more recovery frames in general for almost every character. When I'm done being lazy I have a replay of me playing against a high % Lucario with me playing as Jigglypuff. In the replay I try and predict his rolls and do hard reads all day and I just plain out can't hit the guy. He would literally roll from side to side and spam neutral B special while I tried to hunt him down over and over again. There's no reason why Jigglypuff, of all characters should ever have to chase after a character being the weakest in the game. Since Lucario has the ability can roll with ridiculous invisible frames even a well timed pound can't catch him out of a roll. It's literally like 5 and a half minutes of me chasing after a guy rolling from side to side.

 

[HeeroOfTheSkys]

Rolling recovery is a bit 2 fast IMO but that could just be online because offline I dont have a problem with it. Like other have said shield is fine, it just the same as holding back to block in other fighting games i dont see why people would have a problem with being able to block lol.

I have seen a trend of these kinds of thread with people complaining about stuff rather than figuring them out more so with Wii U/3DS smash than say brawl. The problem is that because the online in this game is relatively gd more people are playing online and I dont think they released till now how competitive Smash can be so its like figuring out how to deal with things is a foreign concept to them

 

[Orngeblu]

Fixed.

 

[Meek Moths]

today i battled a opponent and he alway dodged my atatcks and when i got him he shielded its very unfair andi believe its killing the game, Miyamoto please remove...

 

[Supersmashbrothers.]

How is this even OPEN FOR DISCUSSION? The guy is literally whining that they're using the shield and are not getting hit by his attacks.

Excuuuuuse me Princess.

 

[Bearbuddy4]

rolling and dodging are important. A good player will know how to punish spammers.

For example! my mains are charizard and wario

for roll spammers charizard's over B is incredibly useful. Smacks em' when they roll away.

 

[smashbroskilla]

rolling and dodging are important. A good player will know how to punish spammers.

For example! my mains are charizard and wario

for roll spammers charizard's over B is incredibly useful. Smacks em' when they roll away.

No one is saying rollins ISN'T important. What people are saying is that they recover from rolling too fast.

 

[Dracul_G_Belmont]

Defense in this game is strong, but if you learn your characters safe moves and appropriate distances from where to attack it should limit there ability to block and counter grab all day. As for rolls spammers you just need to anticipate and counter them. As with any fighter it all about getting the good reads.

 

[ferioku]

I'm inclined to agree but at the same time there's nothing stopping you from suiciding twice and re-queuing to get someone else, which makes this complaint rather...pointless. You can also furthermore choose to block that player to ensure you never get matched up with them again.

The power is really in your hands to filter out those players, so there's no reason to act like they are such a bane on your experience.

Never knew you could block. Well I'm pretty sure you can't block players in the 3DS version, and I'm unable to play the Wii U version because Amazon/Nintendo of UK suck ass.

 

[Tollhouse]

You don't get it. Some people ONLY play defensively.

So what? If all they do is play defensively, then use that against them. A player who only plays defensively isn't going to do any better than a player who only plays offensively.

In brawl, I used to have bad habits with roll dodging to much and my friend took advantage of that and was able to read me. You can destroy people who play that way if you learn how to.

 

[LancerStaff]

Never knew you could block. Well I'm pretty sure you can't block players in the 3DS version, and I'm unable to play the Wii U version because Amazon/Nintendo of UK suck ***.

Oh, you can. Immediately after a match, click on their profile. Block and report come up.

It'll only make you weaker in the long run, however.

 

[daedgaem]

It's leaps and bounds over Brawl online. I still think rolling needs to have more recovery frames in general for almost every character. When I'm done being lazy I have a replay of me playing against a high % Lucario with me playing as Jigglypuff. In the replay I try and predict his rolls and do hard reads all day and I just plain out can't hit the guy. He would literally roll from side to side and spam neutral B special while I tried to hunt him down over and over again. There's no reason why Jigglypuff, of all characters should ever have to chase after a character being the weakest in the game. Since Lucario has the ability can roll with ridiculous invisible frames even a well timed pound can't catch him out of a roll. It's literally like 5 and a half minutes of me chasing after a guy rolling from side to side.

Pretty much this. Super shield roll 4 is pretty damn ******** so far. Rolling needs less invincibility frames. I cannot count the number of times I do a hard read and 'I' get punished, because my move is simply absorbed.

4/5 players in FG doesn't even walk. They just roll from one side of the map to the other spamming down smashes.

 

[SharpMcHappy]

Alright, this thread is pretty dumb. This is exactly like complaining about spamming, if you can get around the move in any way possible just learn how to do it and the problem is solved. The exact same thing applies with people who spam shielding and dodging. Increase your grabs, make yourself less predicable and kick that player's ass. It's not that hard if you're better than the player you're playing against.

You don't get it. Some people ONLY play defensively.

...And a LOT of people only play offensively. What is your point? There are a lot of incredibly good smash players that rely on only offensive strategies and they're doing pretty damn fine against defensive players. There is no better strategy, and I'm pretty sure of that because I've seen a lot of players that spam shields and rolls get their butt handed to them by decent aggressive players because when you get down to it, if you know what you're doing it's really easy to punish. If someone beats you in a match, they're clearly better than you. If you deny that I'd suggest you go play a match with ANYONE in the top 20 smash 4 players and try to spam shields and rolls. I'm pretty sure you'll lose.

 

[Vaidya]

Alright, this thread is pretty dumb. This is exactly like complaining about spamming, if you can get around the move in any way possible just learn how to do it and the problem is solved. The exact same thing applies with people who spam shielding and dodging. Increase your grabs, make yourself less predicable and kick that player's ***. It's not that hard if you're better than the player you're playing against.



...And a LOT of people only play offensively. What is your point? There are a lot of incredibly good smash players that rely on only offensive strategies and they're doing pretty damn fine against defensive players. There is no better strategy, and I'm pretty sure of that because I've seen a lot of players that spam shields and rolls get their butt handed to them by decent aggressive players because when you get down to it, if you know what you're doing it's really easy to punish. If someone beats you in a match, they're clearly better than you. If you deny that I'd suggest you go play a match with ANYONE in the top 20 smash 4 players and try to spam shields and rolls. I'm pretty sure you'll lose.

The point is to play offensively and defensively, offensively most. You just don't get it do you. Some people just roll, grab, toss, and repeat. And spam projectiles. YOU'RE SOOOOO GOOD HUH

 

[Vaidya]

So what? If all they do is play defensively, then use that against them. A player who only plays defensively isn't going to do any better than a player who only plays offensively.

In brawl, I used to have bad habits with roll dodging to much and my friend took advantage of that and was able to read me. You can destroy people who play that way if you learn how to.

Um yeah except in For Glory, you're matched up with someone you don't know -_-

It's easy to just talk. I'd LOVE to see you adapt so quickly under 5 minutes.

 

[Ephemiel]

You're matched with someone you don't know, but if you're playing For Glory you SHOULD be able to adapt to an enemy that plays only defense pretty quickly.

 

[Roko Jono]

Rolling isnt THAT fast. If it was toned down a little sure, but seriously I got used to punishing it. I Rest people who roll all the time. Literally ALL the time (they have to be at kill % though since that would be dumb if they weren't...). Its called adjusting and some people do it.

Someone is actually complaining and saying something that they can do themselves as unfair? Yo bruh that sniper rifle from far away is hella cheap, can you snipe me from up close instead cuz I lyk knifes only plz?

Seriously if you don't put in the time in ANY competitive game you ARENT going to get any good. Quit being lazy. Did you hear about that guy who won EVO who just started playing the game last week? Wait...

Stay free everyone :]

(Enjoy the damn game...)

 

[Bearbuddy4]

No one is saying rollins ISN'T important. What people are saying is that they recover from rolling too fast.

If you read the comments you could see that some people were saying that, sorry your feelings were hurt.

 

[SharpMcHappy]

The point is to play offensively and defensively, offensively most. You just don't get it do you. Some people just roll, grab, toss, and repeat. And spam projectiles. YOU'RE SOOOOO GOOD HUH

So, you're basically telling people how to play the game instead of improving yourself. That's a pretty weak argument to me. If you're losing to someone who spams you gotta up your game, it's not like it's an impossible task. "You don't get it", what? I'm pretty sure we're playing the same game here. I wouldn't exactly call myself a pro but I've won a lot of For Glory games against people who spam, shield and grab, it's really not that hard. As I said, if someone has a pattern you can beat them pretty easily. And no, you do not have to play the game offensively and defensively with offense being the priority. That might be your strategy, but I've played games with other people where I have barely dodged or shielded at all and I've been doing pretty damn well. I've also been playing games where being very defensive has been a priority to figure out my opponent and find out how their strategies work. As I said, there is no better strategy because Smash is a game with a lot of freedom. If you're having so much trouble that you have to blame it on the game itself, I'd recommend you practice more.

 

[Vaidya]

So, you're basically telling people how to play the game instead of improving yourself. That's a pretty weak argument to me. If you're losing to someone who spams you gotta up your game, it's not like it's an impossible task. "You don't get it", what? I'm pretty sure we're playing the same game here. I wouldn't exactly call myself a pro but I've won a lot of For Glory games against people who spam, shield and grab, it's really not that hard. As I said, if someone has a pattern you can beat them pretty easily. And no, you do not have to play the game offensively and defensively with offense being the priority. That might be your strategy, but I've played games with other people where I have barely dodged or shielded at all and I've been doing pretty damn well. I've also been playing games where being very defensive has been a priority to figure out my opponent and find out how their strategies work. As I said, there is no better strategy because Smash is a game with a lot of freedom. If you're having so much trouble that you have to blame it on the game itself, I'd recommend you practice more.

It's so easy to just talk.

 

[Metalbro]

He's not "just talking" He's giving you advice. >_>

 

[S0 B00sted]

How old are you, OP?

 

[ShredderN64]

Adapt.
Learn when they'll shield, and grab when they do. If they dodge, figure out where they're going and hit them first. If people truly do it too much, you should be able to learn how to deal with them. It sounds like you're throwing attacks all over the place, and shielding and dodging is how you deal with that. And to the people giving OP a hard time, we all gotta start somewhere.

 

[GroundZero996]

High level defense. Playing defense against lower-level players is substantially easier. They don't read and predict as well as those who do tournaments all the time and hone their skills there.

I disagree. The only reason low level players get away with that crap is because we become agitated too easily. Seriously most defensive play is incredibly easy to deal with unless you're playing a slow character without projectiles. Ganondorf for instance.

I was talking about going up against spammers/matchups you hate and SDing twice deliberately. I mean, the ratio doesn't matter, but don't people want to better themselves at the game? Input lag, I can understand. Part of the journey is learning how to deal with bad matchups and spam, so why refuse the opportunity to benefit yourself and your opponent?

Eh, sometimes it's just not good for my psyche to stay in a game with a particular type of player. Trust me, I'll stick around for a lot. I get two stocked by players who are much better than me or in a bad MU and come back for more. I tend to leave against Megaman players though. None of them are actually any good and Megaman is incredibly frustrating to play against without platforms. For Glory was a big step in the right direction, but they seriously needed to add a "Delta" mode of each stage that was Battlefield with the music and assets from other maps like Omega mode stages.

 

[smashbroskilla]

If you read the comments you could see that some people were saying that, sorry your feelings were hurt.

I know people were saying that. You weren't so I quoted you. You know, when you quote someone and are talking directly to them like I'm doing now? Who said my feelings were hurt? Was that a weak trolling attempt?

 

[Quillion]

I LOVE how people on both sides are arguing back and forth without video support. So I'll put in some:

You don't even have to go to a specific time to see the shields constantly going on even when there is no real need to do so. Just watch several seconds and you'll see what I mean.

 

[LancerStaff]

I LOVE how people on both sides are arguing back and forth without video support. So I'll put in some:

You don't even have to go to a specific time to see the shields constantly going on even when there is no real need to do so. Just watch several seconds and you'll see what I mean.

So now you think shields are OP now? We don't need videos to prove every little point, and no amount of videos will help in this case.

 

[Quillion]

So now you think shields are OP now? We don't need videos to prove every little point, and no amount of videos will help in this case.

They do a much better job than just going "you hate it cause you suck" like you and others have been doing.

 

[LancerStaff]

They do a much better job than just going "you hate it cause you suck" like you and others have been doing.

Not really, no. What, are people suddenly going to go "Aw man, these videos are proof shielding is good for the game. Quillion, you're just too awesome for me to argue with."

 

[Conda]

Since this is a fighting game, the power of your opponent relies heavily on your ability to pressure them and force them to be less effective. It's up to you.

 

[Prawn]

A lot of only children in this thread. It's a fighting game, everyone's trying to win, no ones just going to let you win. If you lose, you lose, if you win you win. Stop acting like you're entitled to win and that everyone else is obligated to play the way you want them to. How self centered can you be?

Go play Zelda if you can't handle playing against other human opponents without acting like a toddler

 

[Geko[FR]]

perform perfect shield et shield grab budy

 

[Tollhouse]

Um yeah except in For Glory, you're matched up with someone you don't know -_-

It's easy to just talk. I'd LOVE to see you adapt so quickly under 5 minutes.

If you play those types of players enough, you'll learn how to fight them better. Right now, you don't know how to punish them.

 

[Etc_Guy]

A lot of only children in this thread. It's a fighting game, everyone's trying to win, no ones just going to let you win. If you lose, you lose, if you win you win. Stop acting like you're entitled to win and that everyone else is obligated to play the way you want them to. How self centered can you be?

Go play Zelda if you can't handle playing against other human opponents without acting like a toddler

Ikr. I don't know why this noob is complaining that a mechanic that has been in since the beginning is bad. Shields have been buffed from Brawl but can still be countered by a grab just like 64.

If you break someone's shield near a edge, it's smarter to push them off it than use a smash attack if it won't kill them. (Unless it is .)