Shield Pressure issues.

[Mr.Random]

Can someone teach me how to properly shield pressure with Fox? I feel this is my weakest area and I usually end up getting shield grabbed and then death combo'd. I'm not sure what moves Fox has that are safe on block. I use Dair usually because of the multiple hits.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Nair shine
Nair double shine
Shine grabs
I'd assume nair is the safest. I'm not sure, but I always say it over dair and no one good ever gets grabbed when doing it right. I know wolf has a 0 on shield nair, so maybe fox has that as well.

 

[Mr.Random]

Does anyone have frame advantage data for Fox's aerials? Nair shine is ridiculously hard to do over and over like Mango does.

 

[GMaster171]

Repeated nair->shine->nair is never safe, there are always openings. Mango is able to do it due to the amount of respect he forces out of his opponents.

How it goes is:
late nair->shine is safe on shield, the hole is before the late nair
shine->early nair is safe on shield, the hole is after the early nair

By constantly switching up which one he does, hes able to be safe without really being safe.

 

[Deep2]

On top of what GMaster said, getting your late Nair > Shines down is important. If you REALLY don't wanna get shield grabbed, do a shine grab after your shine. Once you have more respect from your opponent, if he's a heavier character, I usually like to waveshine behind their shield and start drillshining, and when they roll away continue to pressure them with either more late nair shines which at this point will probably shield poke, or a drill shine > waveshine up smash if I catch them quick enough to get a dair on them.

Repeated Nair shines isn't really necessary to learn. I don't really see the advantage to pressuring like Mango does with repeated Nair shines, it's very unsafe. I think maintaining overall stage pressure and doing safe on shield attacks like, for example, a Nair that just taps the shield, late Nair shines > early backaway Nair or shinegrab, is better. It doesn't give opportunities for your opponents to do ANYTHING since all your attacks are safe and you can really maintain control of the stage by simply doing safe attacks.

 

[Mr.Random]

Getting it down consistently is an issue I have too. How many times is it appropriate to hit their shields with nair + shine or drill?

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Multishine is safe on shield, hard to execute though

 

[KingsGambit27]

Why is L Cancelled Drill > Shine unsafe on shield?

 

[Foxy K]

Why is L Cancelled Drill > Shine unsafe on shield?

It's not.

 

[KingsGambit27]

It's not.

Most fox players prefer Nair > Shine, but if Dair shine is safe on shield why not use it..?

 

[YaBoy]

Most fox players prefer Nair > Shine, but if Dair shine is safe on shield why not use it..?

Im a pretty mediocre fox so anyone can feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure nair-> shine pokes easier, and has more knock back on early frames, so after you've racked up damage you can get to an edge guard situation right out of their shield. Like i said tho, I'm fairly mediocre and thats just my intuition speaking.

 

[Foxy K]

Most fox players prefer Nair > Shine, but if Dair shine is safe on shield why not use it..?

What @ YaBoy said (which I didn't even consider/know off the top of my head, but we're probably both pretty mediocre), but also that it's easier to consistently hit the L-cancel with a nair, since it's only one hit. The drill has several hits, which combined with the increased delay in timing when hitting a shield, can make it hard(er) to time the L-cancel with a dair. At least that's how it is for me. I'm sure pro Foxes don't have any trouble with it, but they probably use nair for the reasons YaBoy listed.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

All of this shield pressure depends on the opponent. While drillshines are safe aganist slow grabs and something and it can be a borderlinecase against most of the cast, it definitely isn't against fast OoS.
Also it is always possible to punish drillshine on reaction if your character can do it in theory, so most Foxes prefer mindgaming between early nair, late nair and tomahawk (except against characters with slow OoS) because you have to punish it on read (if you don't have 20XX reaction time) and in most cases two options are safe and one is advantegous while one is unsafe which isn't that bad.