Shield Canceled Spin Dash Grab

[Umby]

It is, but that's not the point of this thread. (Thread's original name was "My Signature is Sexy")

The point is to ask if there are any uses for fthrow, and whether or not spin dash canceling increases Sonic's grab range.


edit: I now want to make this thread about canceling Sonic's Spin Dash into a shield grab. Most of us know that you can cancel a Spin Dash during its initial frames with Shield. If you charged up a bit, then Shield Canceled the move, you'd end up a bit further back than when you started.

However, if you canceled the move almost immediately, you'll notice that Sonic inches forward a bit. In this manner, Sonic could effectively get more range out of his shield grab.

It's been determined that standing still, this of course gets better range than a standing grab, and could warrant potential in competitive play. Right now, with some help from DarkNES, I'm working to see how this method from a dash compares with a shield dash grab.

Right now, I've drawn two inconclusive things about this method coming out of a dash:

1) Both seem to get the same kind of range.
2) The method I'm proposing seems faster, since the shield dash grab at maximum range takes a split second to slide and "latch on" whereas Shield Canceling a Spin Dash allows a standing Shield Grab, which is quicker.

Look here's the facts:

1) Dash Shield Grab Cancel covers roughly the same distance as the dash>spin dash>shield grab cancel.

2) You can however use the latter at extremely close range to gain a little ground.

3) YOu can not use the dash shield grab at close range, because it will initiate a dodge/roll.

Videos for those who can't figure this out will be shown later.

The basic idea is that the forward B allows for your dash to cover ground/just like shielding during a dash does. So it's just another way of doing the same thing. So really, only use it at close range... we'll have to look into this more of course.

 

[FrostByte]

Fthrow can be part of a DI trap which leads to a spring uair. Fthrow instead of Dthrow near the edge.

Spindash cancel reduces the lag on the dash grab. It may have the same benefit as shield cancelling the grab, I'll have to check.

 

[Tenki]

[ad] from here (bump it if you like it lolol) [/ad]

Off-platform gimp: Homing attack: 40%+ (best at around 40-80%)
F-throw>F-air> [*] Homing Attack

[*] Opponent must use double jump, or else this fails, but at least it leaves your recovery fine.

That horrible setup aside, Sonic's fthrow and uthrow's uses are really situational in the sense that their knockback depends alot on your enemy's damage. Like if you do u-throw at 120-130% (vs middleweight), you can immediately do a spring and catch them. Or if you do a f-throw from 40-70%, you can catch someone with a single-jump. Mess around with the %'s and heights in training mode and maybe you can find something useful with it :D

Spin-dash grabbing might only be good for mind-games (if the person shields as soon as they see the charge), but if you're coming out of a dash, I'm pretty sure shield grabbing is quicker, and if not, at least it can block an attack. I'm not sure about this, but I think if you're charging it, it moves you backwards, so it kinda screws your range, doesn't it?

 

[Umby]

Well if you SD cancel with shield or grab almost immediately, you get like a slight forward roll thing going on. So you could run, SD Cancel and use the small forward boost to get a little more grab range?

 

[darkNES386]

Look here's the facts:

1) Dash Shield Grab Cancel covers roughly the same distance as the dash>spin dash>shield grab cancel.

2) You can however use the latter at extremely close range to gain a little ground.

3) YOu can not use the dash shield grab at close range, because it will initiate a dodge/roll.

Videos for those who can't figure this out will be shown later.

The basic idea is that the forward B allows for your dash to cover ground/just like shielding during a dash does. So it's just another way of doing the same thing. So really, only use it at close range... we'll have to look into this more of course.

 

[Umby]

As an extra note, this only works when you cancel SD with a shield, not with a straight grab.

 

[darkNES386]

It seems from trying to incorporate it yesterday... that it depends very much on what your opponent is doing. I think this move is only going to be useful against heavy dodges as it has a different timing. Still too early to say and naturally you're going to overuse a new move when you first learn to use it.

 

[Browny]

lol this has some interesting uses

i could only test it on CPU's so meh. it doesnt work against my brother since he knows exactly what im trying to pull off

id dash up to them and do an instant spin dash cancel and roll dodge behind them. it looks and sounds the exact same as a dash attack :O I figured a good test was versus a pikachu f-smash. you can run right up to them, spin charge cancel and roll dodge the instant pika fires his fsmash, get behind him and get an fsmash of your own off before pikachus has even ended. even goes through pikas dsmash :O of course you can always change it into a throw if you dont want to suffer diminishing returns etc.

i figure this would actually work against many things people use to stop sonics approach, such marths jab and counter, zeldas fsmash and pits side b.

probably one of the very real mind games in brawl at the moment since it looks the exact same as a dash attack.

 

[messiahfreak2000]

frankly, i'm surprised from the most recent videos i've seen that no one has incorporated the spin dash shield cancel into their game yet. its simple to perform and like the poster above me said, has potential for some good mindgames. about a month back i started using it and my bro was like what da heck? it didn't give me that great advantage (he still kicks my butt as fox) but it kept him on edge, unsure of wheter or not its a dash attack or spin dash cancel and caused a few misplaced attacks (particularly fox's forward smash, just spin dash cancel close, fool the smash into happening and he's in range for your own fsmash).