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Shiek is practically confirmed now..

-Foggy-

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Everybody seems to have the argument that Shiek won't be returning since the new Zelda is from TP, and Shiek is from OoT. But in the new video, Zelda clearly uses Farore's Wind. Sorry if I'm mistaken, but Zelda didn't use FW in TP, so although Zelda has her TP look, her moveset is quite obviously from OoT. That means there is a high chance of Shiek returning. Although it doesn't guarantee anything.

Plus there's the fact that Zelda doesn't look like she uses her rapier in any movies or screenshots, so if her moveset was based on TP, I'm sure we would have seen it by now.

Feel free to debate with me on this, but I think it's pretty ridiculous at this point to think that Shiek won't be returning for Brawl. Sorry to those people who hate Shiek, and sorry again if this has already been mentioned before...lol.
 

-Foggy-

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To Blackshadow: Yes I've seen that thread, but people still believe that is fake for some reason. I guess just count this as more proof lol.

To Rune: Just because Zelda didn't transform into Shiek in TP, doesn't mean she can't. It goes both ways buddy.
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

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Wow.....again, those were initial designs. Stop forgetting that if Sakurai hadn't taken leadership of Brawl, they were not going to touch the Melee roster of characters, just add more. This is what the article is in reference to.

Second, Sakurai has made it quite clear that Brawl is a new game. Even though Zelda has her Farore's Wind and Din's Fire, there is no guarantee that she still has Nayru's Love and Transformation. She has a new flavor, just like Bowser and everyone else.

Besides, none of you would care about Sheik if she wasn't ridiculously awesome anymore in Brawl anyway, and we know Sakurai wants balance, so I hope he sticks to his word.
 

Pieman0920

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Actaully...Zelda never used Farore's Wind or Din's Fire in the past, so it's hardly something to base a Sheik argument on.

(Well at least for any arguments saying this is OoT Zelda as opposed to TP Zelda, because of those moves)
 

Rune

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To Blackshadow: Yes I've seen that thread, but people still believe that is fake for some reason. I guess just count this as more proof lol.

To Rune: Just because Zelda didn't transform into Shiek in TP, doesn't mean she can't. It goes both ways buddy.
Shiek is part of the OoT storyline, Zelda needed to hide her true identity from Ganondorf. Not so in TP. Her spells on the other hand, are based on the triforce Gods who created the Zelda universe, which obviously exists in any Zelda game.
To think Zelda missing something she always had is similar to her missing something game specific is nonsense. Not that Sheik could not still be in there, but your proof is lame.
 

-Foggy-

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"Wow.....again, those were initial designs. Stop forgetting that if Sakurai hadn't taken leadership of Brawl, they were not going to touch the Melee roster of characters, just add more. This is what the article is in reference to.

Second, Sakurai has made it quite clear that Brawl is a new game. Even though Zelda has her Farore's Wind and Din's Fire, there is no guarantee that she still has Nayru's Love and Transformation. She has a new flavor, just like Bowser and everyone else.

Besides, none of you would care about Sheik if she wasn't ridiculously awesome anymore in Brawl anyway, and we know Sakurai wants balance, so I hope he sticks to his word."


Okay, I get your point that just because Zelda uses FW and DF doesn't mean she uses her other two moves, but honestly, I never said in my original post that "since Zelda uses FW, Sheik is DEFINETELY CONFIRMED NO MATTER WHAT". All I said is that the fact that Zelda uses FW INCREASES the chances of Shiek in Brawl, which is why the thread is titled "Shiek is practically confirmed now. Plus, if Zelda is keeping two of her moves, what are the chances that she isn't keeping the other two? IMO, if Zelda has half of her moveset, what's keeping the other half from returning? I'm not saying that it's GUARANTEED that because Zelda has FW she also has Shiek, I'm saying that the chances are VERY HIGH because Zelda has FW that she also has Shiek.

"Actaully...Zelda never used Farore's Wind or Din's Fire in the past, so it's hardly something to base a Sheik argument on.

(Well at least for any arguments saying this is OoT Zelda as opposed to TP Zelda, because of those moves)"


That may be true that Zelda doesn't use those moves in the first place, but they are undoubtedly from OoT, so yes, I can base a Shiek argument on them. Plus, techinically Zelda DID use those moves in Melee, so yes she did use them in the past.


"Shiek is part of the OoT storyline, Zelda needed to hide her true identity from Ganondorf. Not so in TP. Her spells on the other hand, are based on the triforce Gods who created the Zelda universe, which obviously exists in any Zelda game.
To think Zelda missing something she always had is similar to her missing something game specific is nonsense. Not that Sheik could not still be in there, but your proof is lame."


If Zelda can use spells based on triforce gods who created the universe in the TP universe, then she can dress up like a Shiekah and run around like a ninja in the TP universe. Plus like I said before, those spells undoubtedly originated from OoT (even if they exist in any Zelda game) and are also techincally in the OoT storyline, as Shiek is. They are both from the same game, and Zelda seems to be using spells from OoT, so what's keeping her from using transformations from OoT? If my proof is lame, then your LOGIC is lame, because Zelda's moveset and design in Melee were based off of OoT, and it seems to be the same way in Brawl (minus the design). That is what this thread is all about.

I really can't believe that NOBODY thinks that Zelda using Farore's Wind is SOME kind of proof that Shiek is returning, if only a little bit.
 

Rune

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There is no reason for her to transform into a ninja outside the OoT storyline. There are plenty of reasons for her to blow people up outside the OoT storyline.
 

-Foggy-

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I think in a fighting game where up to three people are against Zelda in a fight to the death, Zelda has plenty of reason to transform into a ninja. Besides, this is smash bros, not everything has to make perfect sense with the original game. All I'm saying is that Shiek is part of Zelda's moveset in Melee along with the spells, and if the spells are confirmed to be in Zelda's moveset, then there is a very high chance that Shiek will be returning.
 

NukeA6

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I don't see the relivence of this comment, but it is diffrent between the two. Zelda doesn't use those attacks period, while Link uses a boomerang. Maybe not his adult version in OoT, but he sure does in other games. >_>
And Zelda becomes Sheik in another game. In other words, Zelda in her TP appearance doesn't mean Sheik is gone for good.

That was the meaning of the comment.
 

Pieman0920

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Well that doesn't seem to fit up with what I was commenting though, which was that basing attacks that don't belong to Zelda in the first place has no merit to what game her moves are based on. =/
 

Killer Tree

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Everybody seems to have the argument that Shiek won't be returning since the new Zelda is from TP, and Shiek is from OoT. But in the new video, Zelda clearly uses Farore's Wind. Sorry if I'm mistaken, but Zelda didn't use FW in TP, so although Zelda has her TP look, her moveset is quite obviously from OoT. That means there is a high chance of Shiek returning. Although it doesn't guarantee anything.

Plus there's the fact that Zelda doesn't look like she uses her rapier in any movies or screenshots, so if her moveset was based on TP, I'm sure we would have seen it by now.

Feel free to debate with me on this, but I think it's pretty ridiculous at this point to think that Shiek won't be returning for Brawl. Sorry to those people who hate Shiek, and sorry again if this has already been mentioned before...lol.
Those are dumb arguments.

I know I'm going to get flamed but I'm too lazy to elaborate.
 

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The design of Adult Link in Melee is from Ocarina of Time where he never used a boomerang, yet the boomerang is part of Adult Link's moveset. This comment was to show that the movesets of characters don't always have to make perfect sence with their designs, so the argument that Sheik being in Brawl is impossible because of Zelda's TP look is negated. I didn't think of this before, but it is another great reason why Sheik has a high chance of being in.

It's not really a complicated thing to understand.
 

-Foggy-

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Those are dumb arguments.

I know I'm going to get flamed but I'm too lazy to elaborate.
It's okay, I've probably already negated anything you were about to say anyway, since everybody seems to have the same ******** argument against me.

Besides, they're not dumb argument. They are legitamate reasons why Sheik now has a higher chance of being in Brawl. There is nothing dumb about that.

The thing that's dumb is coming in my thread, saying I'M dumb, and then leaving without stating reasons.

EDIT: sorry for double post
 

kaid

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The real question isn't wether Shiek should be in.

The question is, which is easier? Making a brand new vB, or making an extra clone.

Because that's exactly what all the returning characters are- clones of their Melee selves. Bowser has more reach, Fox has to grab his reflector (implying startup time) but in every pic so far, we've been able to identify every single move any returning character has done as something that existed in Melee. (FS excluded)

Since Zelda is returning and keeping atleast part ofher moveset, I find it likely that Sakurai will make her a full clone of her elder self... including the Shiek moveset.

However...

Shiek's kill moves WILL be nerfed to the point of uselessness. It's stated in the melee trophy description that Shiek is to rack up damage, but if you want to KO you need to turn into Zelda.
 

-Foggy-

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The real question isn't wether Shiek should be in.

The question is, which is easier? Making a brand new vB, or making an extra clone.

Because that's exactly what all the returning characters are- clones of their Melee selves. Bowser has more reach, Fox has to grab his reflector (implying startup time) but in every pic so far, we've been able to identify every single move any returning character has done as something that existed in Melee. (FS excluded)

Since Zelda is returning and keeping atleast part ofher moveset, I find it likely that Sakurai will make her a full clone of her elder self... including the Shiek moveset.

However...

Shiek's kill moves WILL be nerfed to the point of uselessness. It's stated in the melee trophy description that Shiek is to rack up damage, but if you want to KO you need to turn into Zelda.
I don't think the devs are so lazy as to just get rid of Shiek because it would be easier to do that than have her return...
 

sugarpoultry

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I think we should just wait and see what happens. :D There is no proof either way. I personally think Shiek won't return, because the whole Zelda line up is based off Twilight Princess. The OOT characters are out because the game is dated. Shiek could be a individual character totally independent of the others, because they keep bringing back characters from older games, but I highly doubt it.

We'll just have to wait and see!!! ;)
 

luca

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Having Sheik in brawl would be really stupid and not make any sense, sure that doesn't mean sheik can't be in brawl, but it's an awful idea.
 

Stryks

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Everybody seems to have the argument that Shiek won't be returning since the new Zelda is from TP, and Shiek is from OoT. But in the new video, Zelda clearly uses Farore's Wind. Sorry if I'm mistaken, but Zelda didn't use FW in TP, so although Zelda has her TP look, her moveset is quite obviously from OoT. That means there is a high chance of Shiek returning. Although it doesn't guarantee anything.

Plus there's the fact that Zelda doesn't look like she uses her rapier in any movies or screenshots, so if her moveset was based on TP, I'm sure we would have seen it by now.

Feel free to debate with me on this, but I think it's pretty ridiculous at this point to think that Shiek won't be returning for Brawl. Sorry to those people who hate Shiek, and sorry again if this has already been mentioned before...lol.

Ok:
1) Zelda never used farores wind in OoT, neither dins fire nor nayrus love, ur point?
2) again zelda never used the rapier in TP, she only used it when she was possese, but it was ganon doing the fighting...
3) OoT zelda took training from Impa to learn the ways of the sheikah, thus she became shiek, TP zelda has no such training, and if she just transfrom into shiek just like that, it wouldnt make sense...
4) Zelda has always used magic, in OoT, WW and in TP, obviously since the b moves are magic based they'll pretty much stay the same...

Im sure shell get all the b moves minus transformation, and she'll get the light arrows, hell even a guy from IGN thinks so (he works for the copany), why? cause even tough theyre not the same person, both WW and TP zelda used the light arrows, thus it would fit to add the arrows to her arsenal dont ya think?
 

Psychemaster

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S'pose that'd work if you moved Nayru's Love to Down-B and stuck Light Arrows on neutral B...
 

vesperview

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Everybody seems to have the argument that Shiek won't be returning since the new Zelda is from TP, and Shiek is from OoT. But in the new video, Zelda clearly uses Farore's Wind. Sorry if I'm mistaken, but Zelda didn't use FW in TP, so although Zelda has her TP look, her moveset is quite obviously from OoT. That means there is a high chance of Shiek returning. Although it doesn't guarantee anything.

Plus there's the fact that Zelda doesn't look like she uses her rapier in any movies or screenshots, so if her moveset was based on TP, I'm sure we would have seen it by now.

Feel free to debate with me on this, but I think it's pretty ridiculous at this point to think that Shiek won't be returning for Brawl. Sorry to those people who hate Shiek, and sorry again if this has already been mentioned before...lol.
I think considering that Sheik didn't even have a spot of her own, she might not be returning, plus, Sheik has only been in one game, maybe they would do something unique with Zelda this time to make up for that, and about Farore's Wind, maybe they were just short on ideas.
 

vesperview

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Ok:
1) Zelda never used farores wind in OoT, neither dins fire nor nayrus love, ur point?
2) again zelda never used the rapier in TP, she only used it when she was possese, but it was ganon doing the fighting...
3) OoT zelda took training from Impa to learn the ways of the sheikah, thus she became shiek, TP zelda has no such training, and if she just transfrom into shiek just like that, it wouldnt make sense...
4) Zelda has always used magic, in OoT, WW and in TP, obviously since the b moves are magic based they'll pretty much stay the same...

Im sure shell get all the b moves minus transformation, and she'll get the light arrows, hell even a guy from IGN thinks so (he works for the copany), why? cause even tough theyre not the same person, both WW and TP zelda used the light arrows, thus it would fit to add the arrows to her arsenal dont ya think?
I think what he means is that Farore's Wind in an OoT item, but still I don't see why that would be a Sheik giveaway.
 

inside

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Yeah the Rapier might be an item that's added to the collection, or better yet the rapier might be in replace of the move to transform into shiek, like a rapier twirl sweep or something.
 

-Foggy-

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Styrks, this is SSB, not everything always makes perfect sence. This is justified by the pure fact that Zelda even used the spells in SSBM in the first place. She never used those spells in OoT, but she did in Melee. So in turn, Zelda never transformed into Shiek in TP, but she very well could in Brawl. Don't use the fact that Shiek was in OoT as an argument against me either, because like someone else said on the first page, Adult Link in SSBM used Boomerangs with his OoT design, yet in OoT, Adult Link never used boomerangs. So the boomerang move would have ot be derived from a different game starring Adult Link, like the original Legend of Zelda. If it was Young Link in the original Legend of Zelda, then that justifies my other argument that not everything in SSB has to make perfect sence with the original game.

Besides, I don't know how many times I have to say this, but my original post stated that the fact that Zelda uses Farore's Wind increases the chances to a very high level that Shiek will be in Brawl since it looks like Zelda has the same moveset as before. I never said that it guaranteed anything, which is what many people seem to think. The thread title is called "Shiek is practically confirmed now", not "OMG SHIEK OBVIOUSLY CONFIRMED!!!"

As for your argument that Zelda has always used magic: Yes, she has. But FW, DF, and NL all originated from OoT, and Zelda never used any of those spells in any other games.

I just want to clear this up with everybody too. NOBODY SAID THAT I PARTICUKARLY WANTED SHIEK IN BRAWL. All I ever said are that the chances of her returning are very high. Personally, I like the idea of Zelda having light arrows instead of transforming, I just think the chances of that are slim to none, while the chances for Shiek are about 90% IMO.
 

vesperview

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Styrks, this is SSB, not everything always makes perfect sence. This is justified by the pure fact that Zelda even used the spells in SSBM in the first place. She never used those spells in OoT, but she did in Melee. So in turn, Zelda never transformed into Shiek in TP, but she very well could in Brawl. Don't use the fact that Shiek was in OoT as an argument against me either, because like someone else said on the first page, Adult Link in SSBM used Boomerangs with his OoT design, yet in OoT, Adult Link never used boomerangs. So the boomerang move would have ot be derived from a different game starring Adult Link, like the original Legend of Zelda. If it was Young Link in the original Legend of Zelda, then that justifies my other argument that not everything in SSB has to make perfect sence with the original game.

Besides, I don't know how many times I have to say this, but my original post stated that the fact that Zelda uses Farore's Wind increases the chances to a very high level that Shiek will be in Brawl since it looks like Zelda has the same moveset as before. I never said that it guaranteed anything, which is what many people seem to think. The thread title is called "Shiek is practically confirmed now", not "OMG SHIEK OBVIOUSLY CONFIRMED!!!"

As for your argument that Zelda has always used magic: Yes, she has. But FW, DF, and NL all originated from OoT, and Zelda never used any of those spells in any other games.

I just want to clear this up with everybody too. NOBODY SAID THAT I PARTICUKARLY WANTED SHIEK IN BRAWL. All I ever said are that the chances of her returning are very high. Personally, I like the idea of Zelda having light arrows instead of transforming, I just think the chances of that are slim to none, while the chances for Shiek are about 90% IMO.
Then the name of the thread should be SHEIK SOMEWHAT CONFIRMED, how can you draw such conclusions, there's a difference between doing a single move than transforming into a whole new character, plus if her update didn't include sheik, my wildest guess would have to be that it was her Final Smash or something cause otherwise it just isn't there anymore.
 

Stryks

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Styrks, this is SSB, not everything always makes perfect sence. This is justified by the pure fact that Zelda even used the spells in SSBM in the first place. She never used those spells in OoT, but she did in Melee. So in turn, Zelda never transformed into Shiek in TP, but she very well could in Brawl. Don't use the fact that Shiek was in OoT as an argument against me either, because like someone else said on the first page, Adult Link in SSBM used Boomerangs with his OoT design, yet in OoT, Adult Link never used boomerangs. So the boomerang move would have ot be derived from a different game starring Adult Link, like the original Legend of Zelda. If it was Young Link in the original Legend of Zelda, then that justifies my other argument that not everything in SSB has to make perfect sence with the original game.

Besides, I don't know how many times I have to say this, but my original post stated that the fact that Zelda uses Farore's Wind increases the chances to a very high level that Shiek will be in Brawl since it looks like Zelda has the same moveset as before. I never said that it guaranteed anything, which is what many people seem to think. The thread title is called "Shiek is practically confirmed now", not "OMG SHIEK OBVIOUSLY CONFIRMED!!!"

As for your argument that Zelda has always used magic: Yes, she has. But FW, DF, and NL all originated from OoT, and Zelda never used any of those spells in any other games.

I just want to clear this up with everybody too. NOBODY SAID THAT I PARTICUKARLY WANTED SHIEK IN BRAWL. All I ever said are that the chances of her returning are very high. Personally, I like the idea of Zelda having light arrows instead of transforming, I just think the chances of that are slim to none, while the chances for Shiek are about 90% IMO.
U didnt say OMG SHIEK OBUIOUSLY CONFIRMED, but saying practically confirmed, its kinda like saying shes a shoe in, and shes not...
Remember Zelda from OoT has a connection with sages and goddeses, and with her magical abilities, I find her having the godesses moves fitting, besides theyre not like links anyway, theyre used diferently...

Just because we've seen 2 b moves, doesnt mean they can just change 1 to light arrows, which is an obvious choice after 2 zeldas games that have apepared since melee has come out...

Zelda is using her TP design, sure she can be representing ALL the zeldas but using her newest desgin, but if she DOES represent ALL the zeldas, then why have shiek? last time I check not all zeldas can transform, only OoT and WW, and in WW she transformed into tetra...

The moves dont have to make sense, I mean Dks copter? Foxs shine? the finals? the moves can be 100% creative and new and wouldnt affect the character, but what matters is the characters profile, seeing how shes using the TP desing, u have to respect the profile she has in the game, so by giving her shiek it wouldnt make sense since that affects the profile of the character, being a totally new character (shiek) and not just an attack...

Look all points looks like shiek is gone, and just because 2 of 4 moves are confirmed, doesnt mean they cant change the other 2...
 

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Then the name of the thread should be SHEIK SOMEWHAT CONFIRMED, how can you draw such conclusions, there's a difference between doing a single move than transforming into a whole new character, plus if her update didn't include sheik, my wildest guess would have to be that it was her Final Smash or something cause otherwise it just isn't there anymore.
Where did I draw ANY conclusions? There is NO DOUBTING that the fact that Zelda using Farore's Wind increases the chances of Shiek returning. NO DOUBT. I NEVER GUARANTEED ANYTHING IN MY ORIGINALPOST. I HAVE SAID THIS SO MANY TIMES I SWEAR I THINK YOU CANNOT READ. Plus if you know Sakurai you know he likes to mess with us. How many times has he brought up so many questions with a single update? Too many to count. I'm not surprised Shiek wasn't in the Zelda update. That's just how Sakurai rolls:grin:
 

Circus

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Foggy, although I see your point, it has no more weight now than it did before we saw Zelda in the new video.

As it is, we do NOT know that she used Farore's Wind. We just saw her teleport—that's all. On that note, we don't even know that she used Din's Fire—we saw her use an attack similar to what was called "Din's Fire" in Melee. In Brawl, due to the inclusion of Zelda's Twilight Princess look, Sakurai and the gang MIGHT have decided to keep Farore's Wind, Din's Fire, and Nayru's Love, but call them something else entirely.

This wouldn't be all that farfetch'd since the Din's Fire we saw in Melee wasn't even how Din's Fire actually worked in OoT. I could totally see the creators giving Zelda those three moves back, but giving them new titles.

Yes, she COULD still transform into Sheik, but saying Sheik is "practically confirmed" is a bit overboard. That one article referring to Sheik and Ganondorf models certainly improves Sheik's chances as a general character, but not necessarily as a part of Zelda's moveset.
 

-Foggy-

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I know, I just don't see her not coming back. I don't see why some people think that characters with original movesets need to go.

EDIT: At this point it seems like everybody just wants me to change the thread title to something they can understand better...lets just keep it at this guys. IMO Shiek is practically confirmed. There you go, you can all stop getting your panties in a bundle now.
 

vesperview

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Where did I draw ANY conclusions? There is NO DOUBTING that the fact that Zelda using Farore's Wind increases the chances of Shiek returning. NO DOUBT. I NEVER GUARANTEED ANYTHING IN MY ORIGINALPOST. I HAVE SAID THIS SO MANY TIMES I SWEAR I THINK YOU CANNOT READ. Plus if you know Sakurai you know he likes to mess with us. How many times has he brought up so many questions with a single update? Too many to count. I'm not surprised Shiek wasn't in the Zelda update. That's just how Sakurai rolls:grin:
Of course you're jumping into conclusions, you're saying that because Zelda is using Farore's Wind that Sheik is a give away, you're the one who should check the words you're using, *practically* means almost confirmed, and there hasn't been a single clue as to Sheik's appearance and if the only proof you have of Sheik being in the game is Zelda using Farore's Wind, you fail miserably with this thread.
 

Circus

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Stop attacking him, people! All hes saying is that there is MORE evidence than before, ok?
But there isn't, really.

I agree that people should stop attacking, and Sheik has an okay chance of coming back (mostly due to that article about that one guy working on Sheik's and Ganon's character models), but Zelda's few seconds in the new video don't really increase Sheik's chances at all.
 

-Foggy-

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Of course you're jumping into conclusions, you're saying that because Zelda is using Farore's Wind that Sheik is a give away, you're the one who should check the words you're using, *practically* means almost confirmed, and there hasn't been a single clue as to Sheik's appearance and if the only proof you have of Sheik being in the game is Zelda using Farore's Wind, you fail miserably with this thread.
YOU FAIL AT READING. GET A PROPER EDUCATION BEFORE POSTING HERE AGAIN PLEASE. I HAVE SAID SO MANY TIMES THAT FARORE'S WIND INCREASES THE CHANCES. I NEVER SAID IT WAS A "GIVE AWAY" YOU ******** PIECE OF ****.

And yes, Farore's Wind DOES increase the chances. There is a higher chance of Shiek being in with Zelda having her old moveset than her having a completely new one. I don't see what people don't understand about that. Okay, maybe I should have worded the title of thread a little better, but everybody knows my argument by now, so stop using the fact that I used the word "practiacally" instead of something else as an argument against me.

NOTE: At this point I think the only person who is actually arguing with me legitimately is Nothing Rhymes With Circus. He looks like the only person who can bring up a point without flaming me, and I want to thank him for that, even if he still is against me (not like anyone ISN'T against me).
 

sugarpoultry

BRoomer
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i love to see this thread after shes been officially confirmed/unconfirmed
I think there are a lot of threads on this board where people are going to turn to their friends and say "told you so." There are a lot of people who are going to get laughed at.

I think I'm just going to wait and see what Brawl has to offer. :D No use stressing over something that might or might not be true. But it is interesting to see what so many people look forward to. Some of their ideas are awesome!
 
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