Sheildgrabbing, escaping it

[Ark(angel)]

Hey guys, i play falco (duh)
And i constantly lose by 1-2 stock to my friend who plays a fox. He l-cancels, but doesn't wavedash, doesn't waveshine, doesn't pillar, doesn't sdhl, or multishine, but im losing to him constantly because of his chaingrabbing and sheildgrabbing. I can shl, wavedash, multi shine 2 or 3 shines, l cancel, shffl, and yet im constantly smashing into his shield.

im just asking any ideas to beat this silly shield, will an l-canceled aerial (what i usually hit his sheild with) into a shine work?

Ive also noticed that i hardly grab, resulting in alot of missed damage. I'd just like some opinions on which throw works best, ive read a tech chased d-throw works wonders but i cant seem to follow the tech yet. Any other throw suggestions?

Thanks for all the help, Ark

 

[Winston]

>< The fact that you do all the advanced techs and he doesn't isn't relevant unless you apply them; otherwise it just diverts your attention to hitting buttons and away from playing smart.

And yes, what you suggested (L-cancelled aerial into shine, jump cancel the shine) does work. It's falco bread and butter.

One of falco's (and fox's) biggest STRENGTHS is that they can pressure shields with aerials and, assuming they don't miss L-cancels, they will punish shieldgrab attempts with a shine, which usually leads into a combo for falco.

 

[Jumanji]

huh

I am just confused. I always figured that there are two reasons people who know Advanced Tactics play Falco. One is SHL, the other is pillaring a shield (Dair->L-cancel-> JC shine->Dair). It just seems that would be the draw.

 

[bjdavis420]

I have a friend that plays very defensively as well (lots of shield grabs). You should definetly try using l-cancelled dair->shine and repeat. BUT, if you are having trouble with this, b/c if you miss the l-cancel then you can be grabbed before the shine, then you should try using your nair. SH nair allows you to go past him, so if he shields, then you hit his shield, but go past, so no shield grab. Also, use your dair, but do it so that you will land behind him, so even if he shields, he still cant shield grab you. Falcos tilts are pretty good to use as well b/c you can maintain distance btwn you and a shield grab.

EDIT: I just wanted to put more emphasis on the l-canceled dair->jc shine. This is IT for falco users, but the other moves i mentioned are there if you have trouble pulling this off (meaning if you are getting grabbed after dair, b4 shine, then you are not hitting the l-cancel correctly).

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

yeah you're not shffl -> shine'ing your aerials fast enough if you are getting shield grabbed out of them all. Try making the dairs come out closer the the ground. If you do it right every time he tries to shield grab he'll eat a shine, and if it's fox....well from then on out you know what to do.

 

[bjdavis420]

yeah you're not shffl -> shine'ing your aerials fast enough if you are getting shield grabbed out of them all. Try making the dairs come out closer the the ground. If you do it right every time he tries to shield grab he'll eat a shine, and if it's fox....well from then on out you know what to do.

So this helps with dair->shine, if you bring out dair closer to ground? explain please (im just curious) ?

 

[Miharu]

If you're getting shieldgrabbed, you're either:

1. Not L-cancelling
2. Not fastfalling
3. Starting the aerial too early

Remember to start the aerial after the peak of your SH, so you don't get shieldgrabbed. If you hit their shield too early (high), by the time you land, their shieldstun is gone and they can grab your regardless, even if you do l-cancel.

 

[bjdavis420]

If you're getting shieldgrabbed, you're either:

1. Not L-cancelling
2. Not fastfalling
3. Starting the aerial too early

Remember to start the aerial after the peak of your SH, so you don't get shieldgrabbed. If you hit their shield too early (high), by the time you land, their shieldstun is gone and they can grab your regardless, even if you do l-cancel.

Ahh, thank you. Its all making since now...I had never put these 3 together before, oops.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Watch Shiz. If you're good enough to get into a habit of double shining when on top of a shield, you can really reduce the effectiveness of grabs against you.

 

[Ark(angel)]

ok thanks guys, im kinda getting the l-cancelled dair right, its annoying with the timing,Stupid different timing on a shield that is.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

It's tough, and great falcos usually get sheild grabbed here and there too so yeah. As weird as it sounds, watching PC's hands as he pillared helped. He csticks dairs and ff them at like the same time. too good.

 

[bjdavis420]

One last question on this (b/c people are reading this thread, and not mine about Falco, jerks, haha just kidding). Even when I l-cancel the dair, i have problems bringin out the shine immediately. Heres what im doing, let me know if its wrong:

SH, FF, Dair with c-stick, l-cancel (all this time holding down on analog stick) and then I immediatly start tapping b (sometimes before i hit the ground, while doing the dair) b/c im still holding down on analog stick.

Should I land, then jump and do a shine (like a shine cancel in ssb64, for those of u who know), or shine while on ground, and JC that shine? Thanks

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

shine while on the ground, and JC that shine into:
a JC grab
another shffl dair
a full jumped dair
a full jumped bair
a wavedash
another shine

depending on what character you're playing against and whether or not the shine hit.

 

[pockyD]

One last question on this (b/c people are reading this thread, and not mine about Falco, jerks, haha just kidding). Even when I l-cancel the dair, i have problems bringin out the shine immediately. Heres what im doing, let me know if its wrong:

SH, FF, Dair with c-stick, l-cancel (all this time holding down on analog stick) and then I immediatly start tapping b (sometimes before i hit the ground, while doing the dair) b/c im still holding down on analog stick.

Should I land, then jump and do a shine (like a shine cancel in ssb64, for those of u who know), or shine while on ground, and JC that shine? Thanks

shine on the ground

and i would think that timing the shine's comeout is faster than button-mashing for it

 

[bjdavis420]

Yeah, good call, thanks pockyD