Sheik's DI trap grabs vs melee grabs?

[foxygrandpa]

I went back to melee for a little bit, and realized how much better sheiks melee grabs really were. Considering she lacks offensive capabilities, her grab was a staple part of her neutral game. Her melee grab was an extremely viable option for reads, especially considering that she is easily dcanceled at low percents. Her project m grabs were very cleverly made, and the DI trap system was something that I found very interesting. Nevertheless, her new grabs literally make her grabs half as useful as they were in melee, where although she was high on the tier list, was by no means broken or deserving of a severe nerf. At a tournament earlier this month, I sheik ditto'd m2k, and he admitted that sheik deserved her melee grabs back. Keep in mind that he literally mastered this character.
Other characters in the game such as snake, pit, mario, link, fox, wolf, tlink, and ivy have assured grab combos, why shouldnt sheik?

 

[Deleted member]

Other characters in the game such as snake, pit, mario, link, fox, wolf, tlink, and ivy have assured grab combos, why shouldnt sheik?

the crappy answer is that because sheik's downthrow > aerial setups all enable a downthrow CG. upthrow CGs are less problematic than downthrow because they can be DId to for platforms. i suggested to the PMBR to make sheik's upthrow a combo throw but they came up with this instead. honestly i like it better though and i don't think sheik is worse for it. it's just a tradeoff, in a lot of ways this solution is better for sheik.

 

[foxygrandpa]

the crappy answer is that because sheik's downthrow > aerial setups all enable a downthrow CG. upthrow CGs are less problematic than downthrow because they can be DId to for platforms. i suggested to the PMBR to make sheik's upthrow a combo throw but they came up with this instead. honestly i like it better though and i don't think sheik is worse for it. it's just a tradeoff, in a lot of ways this solution is better for sheik.

Mario can literally chain half the cast, snake has a god tier upthrow chain into c4, which are both better than sheiks melee grabs. What I was thinking was that they could possibly make shieks dthrow something more like pits dthrow, where it's still similar to her melee grab but not quite as potent of a chain grab.
If you could elaborate on how this is better for shiek though, I'd be open to listen and try out some of you would say. I main fox, so Im kind of used to switching to and from melee without having to change any of my strategies/setups between project m and melee. If you could provide some examples on how the new system is better, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advanced.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik's throws now can either still reliably combo, or the opponent can DI them into situations where it's not a combo but it's still a bad position and then you're sheik. in singles she's slightly worse off, but in teams in melee her downthrow takes forever and now she can grab in teams without it taking so long where she gets hit. tbh i like the tradeoff.

 

[Arcalyth]

You can still follow DI away for dthrow with needles in every scenario, and dash attack/boost grab in many others.

The mixup is way better imo. You still get chain grabs, you still get reliable followups.

 

[foxygrandpa]

You can still follow DI away for dthrow with needles in every scenario, and dash attack/boost grab in many others.

The mixup is way better imo. You still get chain grabs, you still get reliable followups.

Thanks, this is really helpful. Ive done this combo before but thought it mightve been character dependent. I think I already have a solid shiek, because I did come close to m2k in a sheik ditto (not entirely sure if he was going at me 100%), I just need to learn how to utilize some of the grab combos better. I actually main fox and sheik in melee, and its possible that Im slightly salty at the fact that she wasnt a direct port like fox. Thanks for the help though, I think I just need to get used to playing her in pm.

 

[DMG]

There was only one "fair" way to try and keep Sheik's old Dthrow, and that would to significantly increase knockback growth or base knockback so that she can't CG so easily with it. Everyone is "fine" with a free Dthrow to Fair, but winning MU's because of Dthrow CG or a simplified Dthrow tech chase was pure silly. Current Sheik throws are OK, and at the very least you have more "skill" involved from Sheik's end during the entire process