Sheik Tech: Flame Cancel *UPDATED*

[Spark31]

FLAME CANCEL​

Not to be confused with the Bowser melee tech, I have found a way for Sheik to safely use dair. Against a few characters, Sheik can use a damaging hitbox of an opponent's recovery to safely spike, while being sent away. This has huge applications when gimping recoveries. This is particularly helpful on the ledge when an apposing player is attempting to recover upwards. Note that for any character but Fox, Falco, and Lucas, it is important to hard read the opponent's recovery.

Flame cancel when done correctly:​

(Video for gif provided by @ _Tree )​

If you don't actually hit with the spike hitbox, you may trade. If this happens, it is possible to follow up with an up air.

Character descriptions of possibility with difficulty/risk descriptions:

Spoiler

Example:
: Difficulty/Risk (Notes if necessary)

: Medium/Low
: Extremely Difficult/High (Usually trades)
: Impossible/Medium (Trades are possible in the first few frames. You will also bounce off of the umbrella after Peach's recovery animation finishes)
: Easy/Medium
: Impossible/High
: Impossible/High
: Medium/Low (Trades are also fairly safe, as Bowser Jr. is still left without his kart after the trade)
: Easy/Low (You should spike him in the starting frames of his recovery)
: Difficult/Medium (The sweetspot for the flame cancel is in between his arms and torso during his recovery)
: Difficult/High (Although impossible near the beginning of the animation, it is possible to flame cancel by spiking, then being hit by the rocket barrel explosion)
: Medium/Medium (If a flame cancel is performed, it is highly likely that the up special knockback will stage spike you, be prepared to tech)
: ???/??? (Results inconclusive as training mode only uses side special to recover)
: Medium/Medium (The sweetspot for the flame cancel is in between the blade of the sword and Link's torso during his recovery)
: Difficult/High
: Impossible/Do Not Attempt
: Difficult/Medium (Although possible on the non-command grab hit of Ganon's recovery, it is almost useless because of that, and as such should only be used for INSANE styling)
: Impossible/Medium
: Medium/Low (You should spike her in the starting frames of her recovery)
: Difficult/High (Although it has little use off stage, I suspect this can be used if ZSS tries to use up-b as a kill move)
: Impossible/High (It's likely that custom up specials can be flame canceled)
: Impossible/High (It's likely that custom up specials can be flame canceled)
: Difficult/Low (Usually trades)
: Impossible/Medium
: Impossible/High
: Impossible/High
: ???/??? (Results inconclusive as training mode only uses jump to recover. Likely similar to Ike's)
: ???/??? (Results inconclusive as training mode only uses jump to recover. Likely possible)
: ???/??? (Results inconclusive as training mode only uses jump to recover. Likely possible)
: Easy/Medium (The tip of Sheik's foot should connect with Fox's head as he's rising)
: Difficult/Medium (The tip of Sheik's foot should connect with Falco's head as he's rising)
: Difficult/High (The sweetspot to perform the flame cancel is at the beginning of either the first or second quick attack)
: Impossible/Low (Trades can still follow up into other moves such as BF or U-air)
: Impossible/High
: NA/NA (Jigglypuff only uses jump or side special to recover. I suspect it is possible to flame cancel leaping rest)
: Impossible/High
: Impossible/High
: Impossible/Do Not Attempt
: Extremely Difficult/Medium
: Impossible/High
: Impossible/High
: Difficult/High (The sweetspot for the flame cancel is in between the hula-hoops and WFT's torso during her/his recovery)
: Impossible/Low
: Easy/Medium (To correctly flame cancel, you have to hit doc midway through his recovery animation. Hitting him at the beginning will trade, which can lead into a BF follow up)
: Impossible/High
: Difficult/Low (Usually trades)
: Impossible/Low (Although you technically can flame cancel Pac-man, you simply flame cancel him back into his trampoline, which the proceeds to make him hit you. Because of this, trades are more beneficial as they can follow up into fair or BF depending on percent)
: Impossible/Low
: Impossible/High (It's likely that headbutt spring can be flame canceled)

Note that these ratings only reflect difficult and possibility with Sheik, not other characters that can also execute a flame cancel.

DLC Characters:

Spoiler

Example:
: Difficulty/Risk (Notes if necessary)

: Impossible/High
: Medium/Low (To correctly flame cancel, you have to his Lucas midway through his recovery animation)
: Medium/High
: Difficult/Medium

Note that these ratings only reflect difficult and possibility with Sheik, not other characters that can also execute a flame cancel.

If anyone is willing to test the ???/??? sets in multiplayer, it would be much appreciated to see if it is possible to use FC on these characters.



Characters this tech can reliably be used on in the matchup:

Spoiler

Count:8
///////

Characters this tech works on:

Spoiler

Count:23
//////////////////////

Characters this tech cannot work on:

Spoiler

Count:23
//////////////////////

Top tier character overview:

Spoiler

: Extremely Difficult/High (Usually trades)
: Impossible/High
: Impossible/High
: Difficult/High (Although impossible near the beginning of the animation, it is possible to flame cancel by spiking, then being hit by the rocket barrel explosion)
: Impossible/Do Not Attempt
: Difficult/High (Although it has little use off stage, I suspect this can be used if ZSS tries to use up-b as a kill move)
: Difficult/High (The sweetspot to perform the flame cancel is at the beginning of either the first or second quick attack)
: Impossible/Do Not Attempt
: Extremely Difficult/Medium
: Impossible/High (It's likely that headbutt spring can be flame canceled)

OTHER CHARACTERS WHO CAN FLAME CANCEL​

Here is a list of a few other characters who can flame cancel. Note that all above difficulty/risk ratings likely vary from character to character. One character's flame cancel may work on some characters that Sheik's flame cancel cannot, and visa versa.


(Side B, only cancels if Shulk is hit-- Not the Monado. Even if it does cancel, you might not get a hit)

(Up B, same situation as Shulk)
(Up B, also like Shulk's)
(Falcon Kick)
(Up B #1, once again, similar to Shulk's)
Characters that appear to be able to flame cancel, but cannot
(Dair, side B, and down B)
(Down B)

(Down B)


(Up B)

(Up B #1)
Credit for this information goes to @ DeathlyFerret who tested which characters this works on.

 

[keikashi12]

Oh man lmao that matchup is gonna really suck now for fox. Hash tag get wrecked

 

[DeathlyFerret]

As a Fox main, I can confirm this, as it has happened to me once or twice on for glory. You should test this to see if anyone else with a kamikaze Dair spike (Toon Link, ZSS, etc.) can safely perform it. It's still good that you brought attention to it on the boards.

 

[Ritronaut]

I'm about to piss off my friend so much with this, i can already hear the matchup whining.

Anyways, this seems like something you could actually do, especially if the fox doesn't know about it, which is probably the case. To clarify, you have to use your dair right above them right? Thats the only time where there is a spike hitbox, or is it through the duration of the entire move?

 

[Spark31]

GIF:
http://i.imgur.com/5JfHW4D.gifv

 

[Spark31]

I'm about to piss off my friend so much with this, i can already hear the matchup whining.

To clarify, you have to use your dair right above them right? Thats the only time where there is a spike hitbox, or is it through the duration of the entire move?

It has to be right above them, yes. If it's not, you'll just clash. Sure, he'll be sent outwards, but it won't spike. However, from here you can follow up with an up air, and you may be able to try for another spike as they recover.

 

[ArikadoSD]

lol I actually did this against @ Skarfelt by accident once and realized it can be effective. Wasn't sure if it works every time though.

Also while we're on the subject of spacies, needles from the air can be used to interrupt their side B if you read it and throw them before they do it; so that at least one needle would hit them while they're in the middle of the animation.

 

[Skarfelt]

everything is terrible

 

[SpottedCerberus]

So Flying Fox should be useful against Sheik. Unfortunately, Falco has no such options. Poor guy.

 

[_Tree]

Might make a tidbit video about this. Credit's all yours Spark31.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I was talking about this months ago. It has more uses than on just spacies. It can spike most characters with a multi hit box recovery. I called it interrupted Dair. It has stage application to. Dair into a multi hit box USmash like Bowser Jr. and combo with BF.

This tech is also fully explored in my up coming guide "a gimp theory"

 

[Spark31]

I figured out that it worked on more than spacies, but it works best on them due to the long start-up frames. Didn't know which recoveries it worked on tho, although I knew it worked on more than just spacies.

 

[Ccubed24]

As a Fox main, I can confirm this, as it has happened to me once or twice on for glory. You should test this to see if anyone else with a kamikaze Dair spike (Toon Link, ZSS, etc.) can safely perform it. It's still good that you brought attention to it on the boards.

I'm guessing that it won't work with toon link because of the sword's disjointed hitbox. the only reason sheik doesn't suicide is because she is hit by the fire fox/bird, canceling hair's animation. Though, I could be wrong- I'm not a toon link main. As for ZSS, i'm pretty sure dair doesn't spike, so I'm guessing it will just trade.

 

[Jaxas]

I'm guessing that it won't work with toon link because of the sword's disjointed hitbox. the only reason sheik doesn't suicide is because she is hit by the fire fox/bird, canceling hair's animation. Though, I could be wrong- I'm not a toon link main. As for ZSS, i'm pretty sure dair doesn't spike, so I'm guessing it will just trade.

ZSS' dair spikes the whole way through, so it should work in theory.

 

[DeathlyFerret]

I'm guessing that it won't work with toon link because of the sword's disjointed hitbox. the only reason sheik doesn't suicide is because she is hit by the fire fox/bird, canceling hair's animation. Though, I could be wrong- I'm not a toon link main. As for ZSS, i'm pretty sure dair doesn't spike, so I'm guessing it will just trade.

ZSS' dair spikes the whole way through, so it should work in theory.

Can Flame Cancel.


(Side B, only cancels if Shulk is hit-- Not the Monado. Even if it does cancel, you might not get a hit)

(Up B, same situation as Shulk)
(Up B, also like Shulk's)
(Falcon Kick)
(Up B #1, once again, similar to Shulk's)
Can't Flame Cancel.
(Dair, side B, and down B)
(Down B)

(Down B)


(Up B)

(Up B #1)
Self tested, might be wrong, might have left something out, correct me if so.

 

[Spark31]

@ DeathlyFerret You mind if I put this in the OP? It's useful information. I'll credit you too btw.

The OP has currecntly been updated with all characters this tech works on.

 

[DeathlyFerret]

@ DeathlyFerret You mind if I put this in the OP? It's useful information. I'll credit you too btw.

The OP has currecntly been updated with all characters this tech works on.

Not at all, go ahead.
Edit: Only tested w/ Fox & Falco's up Bs. Willing to test more if needed.

 

[Joaco]

Great find! I'll test it in training to see how difficult it is.

 

[BigHairyFart]

(Side B, only cancels if Shulk is hit-- Not the Monado. Even if it does cancel, you might not get a hit)

Since when did Shulk's Side-B spike?

 

[DeathlyFerret]

Since when did Shulk's Side-B spike?

Never, I counted all the moves that SD when used offstage

 

[Illuminose]

I did this to Marth in Training Mode, it's really hard though and definitely not worth it lol.