sheik nerfed?

[ScottSadistic]

a friend of mine says sheik has been HxC nerfed. I disagree...so i would liek to know...what does SWF think?

 

[EternalCrusade]

some things have been nerfed, some things have been buffed, some things have been changed. overall, I think she's still a great character to use. she was my main in melee but now I've moved on to MK

 

[Justice7541]

Yes, she has been nerfed, since she no longer mega-kills with her FAir. However, this is not necessarily for the worse. Sheik retains most of the abilities that make her Sheik and I'm going to advance the argument that her reworks are better suited for her style of play. She is no longer a instant-KO powerhouse, but she's got the speed and combo ability of the faster characters while still packing enough punch to make the opponent flinch significantly when hit (i.e. not like Sonic, who just sort of rolls past them).

Has the "old Sheik style" been nerfed? Yes, but does the rework offer new options? Also yes.

 

[ScottSadistic]

yeah. true. i still use sheik. i have always liked sheik...of course, if u land a FS just right, then...ha...u can hit them while they r behind u. A - Player 1 B - Player 2 P> - sheik

A P> B

it hits both players A and B.

but FS isnt tourny legal so that doesnt matter.

a Spike for sheik would have been nice though

 

[KirbyKaze]

sheik is really, really crap compared to her melee form.

needles don't needle-cancel and are slower and laggier and deal less damage.
tilts overall are fairly meh now.
f-air is meh now and doesn't really kill, combo, and does no damage.
throws are collectively crap.

everything else is more or less unchanged or changed but still fairly decent so it's not bad. u-air doesn't kill but it combos (as much as anything combos in brawl -___-) so whatever. bair is still good, nair is still good, d-smash is still good, u-smash is still awkward but okay, everything else sucks.

also upB's explosion seems to have decent knockback this time. i don't know how you'd ever hit with it but maybe something to look into? (unlikely)

 

[Greenpoe]

sheik is really, really crap compared to her melee form.

needles don't needle-cancel and are slower and laggier and deal less damage. 3% for needle is fine. 18% for a fully charged set is great.
tilts overall are fairly meh now. Are you kidding? Her up and f-tilts were buffed. Her f-tilt has less knockback, so that means more combos, and it has more range.
f-air is meh now and doesn't really kill, combo, and does no damage. You're just not used to it. I've killed many with it...it tends not to have significant knockback until about 150%, but I've hit with multiple fairs/bairs/nairs for KO's. The nair is also a great move, and the uair is better than in Melee.
throws are collectively crap. Down-throw can still combo into an uair.

everything else is more or less unchanged or changed but still fairly decent so it's not bad. u-air doesn't kill but it combos Uair kills like it always did.
(as much as anything combos in brawl -___-) so whatever. bair is still good, nair is still good, d-smash is still good, u-smash is still awkward but okay, everything else sucks.Up-smash was buffed from Melee.

also upB's explosion seems to have decent knockback this time. i don't know how you'd ever hit with it but maybe something to look into? (unlikely)It takes practice, but I've done it many times. You just vanish as they're falling toward you..

You're just rejecting her Brawl self. Comments in bold.

 

[ScottSadistic]

she just has a diff style...a new style to master that ppl havent mastered yet. thats all there is to it

 

[GotACoolName]

Of course... She's much worse.

 

[PredictablyStubborn]

Sheik's attacks got nerfed.
Brawl's speed got nerfed (which takes away some of her old pressuring gameplay)
Brawl's combos got nerfed.

Sheik used to be the "pick up and combo" character. And the combos used to be able to kill, since most of them ended with a fair.

Now she's not as good.

However, the Sheik/Zelda combo is buffed now. Especially with the new hit decay system. Switching in battle basically takes away all hit decay.

Right now, I main PT and Zelda. I use Sheik in the beginning for priority and damage.
Then, I switch to Zelda the first chance I get (i'm pretty good at this now, since I've been playing a lot of PT). It's awesome to step into the match with a Zelda that can KO the opponent with basically any of her moves.

 

[Greenpoe]

Right now, I main PT and Zelda. I use Sheik in the beginning for priority and damage.
Then, I switch to Zelda the first chance I get (i'm pretty good at this now, since I've been playing a lot of PT). It's awesome to step into the match with a Zelda that can KO the opponent with basically any of her moves.

Like...when? Everyone has been saying that it takes too long/you lose an edgegaurd opportunity (if you hit 'em off then transform), so when do you use down + B?

 

[Mac2492]

I didn't use Sheik much in Melee, but I love Sheik in Brawl.

For starters, her FTilt basically combos into any move, including itself. The most obvious combo that derives from this is FTilt (several times, preferably) -> ANY MOVE... >,>

Second, her tilt and neutral A attacks are amazing for combos. FTilt pulls the opponent in, hits fast, and combos into any move (as stated previously). DTilt can be used while crawling, and knocks the opponent upward (good for comboing into UTilt). UTilt hits twice and can catch opponents that are in the air. Neutral A deals a lot of damage and is hard to avoid. (It's fast)

Her USmash is frightening, and is probably her most effective KO move followed by FSmash. FSmash covers a nice, large area. Her DSmash and USmash hit behind her, so you can use them immediately after a FTilt if your opponent somehow ends up behind you.

I don't use her air moves much (I switch to Zelda when the opponent gets above 100% and I am able to knock the opponent far enough), but they're extremely fast and good for edge-guarding. DAir is useful against enemies that just used a slow smash attack from under you (and missed).

Her needles are great for canceling opponents' moves (Din's Fire, for example) as well as nudging the opponent just a tad bit farther such that he/she can't recover. (It works!)

Teleport is very good for recovery and is actually a decent KO move.


In my opinion, Zelda is Sheik's biggest buff. Once Sheik deals all the damage, it's fun switching to Zelda and being able to KO the person with almost any move. Sheik alone is still quite decent. It's just that your KO moves are limited. (Again, USmash and FSmash are your best bets.)

 

[Christova]

I mained Sheik in Melee. Now I main Zelda.

Sheik was nerfed, but a lot of characters were as well, and most of Sheik's downfall from Melee into brawl comes with the relative lack of easy combos in Brawl. Sheik lost one of her best KO moves (FAir), and transforming into Zelda takes a while now so a Sheik player usually has to think about what they can do with the tools given to them. Sheik is still fast and has a very fluid movescheme, but Brawl's a different game where Sheik no longer rules the roost.

 

[FrozenFire13]

I didn't use Sheik much in Melee, but I love Sheik in Brawl.

For starters, her FTilt basically combos into any move, including itself. The most obvious combo that derives from this is FTilt (several times, preferably) -> ANY MOVE... >,>

Second, her tilt and neutral A attacks are amazing for combos. FTilt pulls the opponent in, hits fast, and combos into any move (as stated previously). DTilt can be used while crawling, and knocks the opponent upward (good for comboing into UTilt). UTilt hits twice and can catch opponents that are in the air. Neutral A deals a lot of damage and is hard to avoid. (It's fast)

Her USmash is frightening, and is probably her most effective KO move followed by FSmash. FSmash covers a nice, large area. Her DSmash and USmash hit behind her, so you can use them immediately after a FTilt if your opponent somehow ends up behind you.

I don't use her air moves much (I switch to Zelda when the opponent gets above 100% and I am able to knock the opponent far enough), but they're extremely fast and good for edge-guarding. DAir is useful against enemies that just used a slow smash attack from under you (and missed).

Her needles are great for canceling opponents' moves (Din's Fire, for example) as well as nudging the opponent just a tad bit farther such that he/she can't recover. (It works!)

Teleport is very good for recovery and is actually a decent KO move.


In my opinion, Zelda is Sheik's biggest buff. Once Sheik deals all the damage, it's fun switching to Zelda and being able to KO the person with almost any move. Sheik alone is still quite decent. It's just that your KO moves are limited. (Again, USmash and FSmash are your best bets.)

Brawl Sheik is nothing compared to Melee Sheik. If you think she's good at comboing now, take a closer look at Melee.

Sheik's combo ability demands use of her aerial moves, so you can't really understand her true combo capability if you don't use them.

Her dair is one of her most noticable nerfs in the sense that it basically MAKES you hit the ground with nasty (to Sheik) lag and get punished.

But mainly, Zelda isn't a buff. Zelda is her own character with her own move set. Sheik is a seperate character with her own move set.

Brawl Sheik sucks compared to Melee Sheik. Therefore, she was nerfed.

 

[Zankoku]

I have to agree, despite all the good points for Brawl Sheik, it's pretty obvious that she's significantly worse than Melee Sheik.

 

[Junpappy]

lol at everyone suggesting that you should transform into Zelda after dealing damage with Sheik

 

[PredictablyStubborn]

lol at everyone suggesting that you should transform into Zelda after dealing damage with Sheik

It's the best thing to do now, especially with hit decay and all.

And remember in Melee, when people always transformed into Sheik after doing some knockback with Zelda? These two switched roles this time.

 

[Zankoku]

It's the best thing to do now, especially with hit decay and all.

And remember in Melee, when people always transformed into Sheik after doing some knockback with Zelda? These two switched roles this time.

Uh, no? People used Sheik most of the time because she was almost strictly better, in terms of chaining combos for lots of damage as well as KOing/edgeguarding.

 

[GENERAL]

sheik has a very good slide up smash now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d1pKvHysYUY

 

[Hestix]

Sheik was my main in melee, now she's ****. They have to be at like 125%+ to kill :/

No grab lock
no chain ftilt

She's bad.

 

[Verdugo]

lol at everyone suggesting that you should transform into Zelda after dealing damage with Sheik

Why is that lol? Sheik can combo better than zelda and zelda can KO better than sheik. Yes it takes longer to transform, but it's not as hard as you might think to find an opportunity to do so. The nerfs that sheik received in brawl only draw attention to zelda's strengths, which i hope will encourage more people to play the two characters as one instead of relying only on sheik.

 

[0RLY]

Why is everybody comparing brawl to melee? If you keep doing that, then everybody in brawl is worse, compared to melee. This is a new game, and brawl has nothing to do with melee. If anything, compare Sheik to the other characters in brawl. She holds her own better than anyone else. I would say Shiek was LEAST nerfed compared to other characters. Just look at C.Falcon...

 

[Mac2492]

^ Good point.

Brawl Sheik is nothing compared to Melee Sheik. If you think she's good at comboing now, take a closer look at Melee.

I'll take your word for it. I don't want to go back. =P

Sheik's combo ability demands use of her aerial moves, so you can't really understand her true combo capability if you don't use them.

I do use them. I just use them less than her ground moves (for the most part) because I switch to Zelda once the opponent gets above 100%. At low percentages, the opponent doesn't fly all too far.

Her dair is one of her most noticable nerfs in the sense that it basically MAKES you hit the ground with nasty (to Sheik) lag and get punished.

I honestly can't recall Sheik's DAir from Melee, so I'll take your word for this too.

But mainly, Zelda isn't a buff. Zelda is her own character with her own move set. Sheik is a seperate character with her own move set.

They are separate characters with separate movesets, but you can switch between them in battle. If you choose to play as Sheik, you necessarily have the option of using Zelda as well. If Zelda is buffed (which she is in this game), Sheik is indirectly "buffed" too.

Sheik herself is not buffed by this, but Sheik is not a standalone character. Zelda and Sheik take up one tile and can transform back and forth between each other at will. Sheik and Zelda as a team were buffed because Zelda was buffed.

If you don't switch to Zelda, you won't benefit from this "buff" at all. That's why you don't see this as a buff for Sheik while I do.

Oh, and I just want to point out that I am referring to Sheik + Zelda when I say "Sheik" and Zelda + Sheik when I say "Zelda" simply because Transform exists (and can be used freely in battle).

Brawl Sheik sucks compared to Melee Sheik. Therefore, she was nerfed.

Melee Sheik was overpowered (or so I've heard) anyway. Do you blame the developers for "nerfing" her?

At the very least, be happy that Sheik actually feels more like she should in this game.

 

[Junpappy]

When you transform you do one of two things:
1) You lose an edgeguard/combo opportunity
2) You set your opponent up for free damage against you

Sheik has enough KO ability to make transforming the lesser of the two options.

 

[AzureDrag0n1]

Thank god she was nerfed. That character was overpowered. Now she is more like a normal character that can still stand against any character. She may very well still be top tier. I think Marth was nerfed even harder than Sheik and I think Sheik was the better character in Melee.