Sheik in 1.1.1

[Absol]

Post any changes you notice here!

I'll update the OP with discoveries

Universal: All attack get ups do less shield damage.

Shield stun formula is changed to 1.8 (needles are more safe on shield now)

 

[Powerman293]

Might be crazy, but I swear sometimes when I do Fair, there's a second... what do you call it? Attack effect for F air right behind the normal one.

 

[Jaxas]

Confirming that...

• Needle Fidget
• Instant Needle Cancel
• Vanish Glide and
  
• C-Bounce

Are still in

 

[New_Dumal]

So...How it's going ?
Please tell me they don't change framedata.
Someone already tested the setups from throw ?
DThrow -> UAir are still a thing against Pikachu, for example ?

 

[Powerman293]

Also, no needle range nerf. Great.

 

[New_Dumal]

I was expecting that Needle nerf.
To be honest, I think we don't get a needle nerf is a really bad sign for the future (if we don't be punished in this patch, I feel we will be hard nerfed after this...)

 

[_Tree]

I'd argue the opposite Dumal. Why would they hold off until the next patch to hit us with a truck of nerfs? The results that show Sheik dominating are clearly there. If anything this gives me even more confidence that Sheik isn't budging much from her current post.

God I love it when I'm right.

 

[Absol]

I feel like were villains

and i love it

 

[_Tree]

I feel like were villains

and i love it

Bruh my thread-locking fingers are tingling in anticipation of all the complaint threads we're gonna get here.

 

[New_Dumal]

Yeah, it's funny.
Sheik is quite powerfull now, so she is hated, but it's not "too OP" as people says anyway.
The proof is that only ZeRo is really owning anyone with her.
Mr.R lost to a Meta Knight.
Vinnie dropped from a Ryu.
I just have to admit the Needles are kind of dumb because he is probably the best character in the game at melee attacks, and have a awesome projectile, what actually is no-sense.

I think the problem with not being nerfed is the rage that the community will start against her.
People will start to cry more and more against Sheik and maybe when something be done, it will be too much.
I really expect I'm being negative or overanalyzing the subject anyway.

 

[smashPony]

Bruh my thread-locking fingers are tingling in anticipation of all the complaint threads we're gonna get here.

<3

 

[WwwWario]

So characters who needs a buff like Ganon got a slight buff to Nair out of everything, and Sheik, the most annoying, powerful, and clearly dominating character in the game, wasn't touched. GG, sakurai. GG. I'm done with Sheik. Looks like there will be many more months with Sheiks winning 95% of tournaments and Sheiks coming to later matches 99% of the tournaments.

 

[NeoRed]

Sheik's fair does slightly less damage. From 4.8 to 4.12 or something like that

 

[Euklyd]

So characters who needs a buff like Ganon got a slight buff to Nair out of everything, and Sheik, the most annoying, powerful, and clearly dominating character in the game, wasn't touched. GG, sakurai. GG. I'm done with Sheik. Looks like there will be many more months with Sheiks winning 95% of tournaments and Sheiks coming to later matches 99% of the tournaments.

luigi wins more tourneys than sheik lmao

edit: also fair has done 5/4.3 since last patch, not 4.8

 

[Absol]

Yeah, it's funny.
Sheik is quite powerfull now, so she is hated, but it's not "too OP" as people says anyway.
The proof is that only ZeRo is really owning anyone with her.
Mr.R lost to a Meta Knight.
Vinnie dropped from a Ryu.
I just have to admit the Needles are kind of dumb because he is probably the best character in the game at melee attacks, and have a awesome projectile, what actually is no-sense.

I think the problem with not being nerfed is the rage that the community will start against her.
People will start to cry more and more against Sheik and maybe when something be done, it will be too much.
I really expect I'm being negative or overanalyzing the subject anyway.

the only rage we have to worry about is an in game mechanic

kappa

 

[W.A.C.]

I'd argue the opposite Dumal. Why would they hold off until the next patch to hit us with a truck of nerfs? The results that show Sheik dominating are clearly there. If anything this gives me even more confidence that Sheik isn't budging much from her current post.

God I love it when I'm right.

People have expected Luigi's down throw to get nerfed for a long time and it didn't happen until this patch. Who knows what might happen to Shiek in the future.

 

[NeoRed]

Eff you, Sakurai.... This is just not FAIR (omg wombo combo right there)...

I'm so salty right now...

 

[Powerman293]

I still think with Sheik's dominance over the meta, we are much closer to Smash 4's version of 20xx then Melee is to thiers. And this patch proves either the developers don't see the problem or they're gonna wait it out and see if the meta responds to the mass influxs of Shieks.

 

[NeoRed]

I really doubt the developers really pay too much attention to 1-on-1 matches. If you were Sakurai, would you rather concentrate on free-for-all matches or 1-on-1? I think free-for-all's for sure. Dayum, Sakurai...

This is the stupidest thing ever. Why did they just nerf Luigi but not Sheik? What kind of unbalanced crap is this?

 

[TurboLink]

I knew Sheik wouldn't get nerfed. She's pretty bad in FFA.

Seriously, why were people so confident when she went untouched last patch?

 

[King9999]

I really doubt the developers really pay too much attention to 1-on-1 matches. If you were Sakurai, would you rather concentrate on free-for-all matches or 1-on-1? I think free-for-all's for sure. Dayum, Sakurai...

This is the stupidest thing ever. Why did they just nerf Luigi but not Sheik? What kind of unbalanced crap is this?

I think they definitely do focus on 1v1. FFA is too chaotic to get anything useful out of it.

 

[memoryman3]

I think Shiek was designed to be great at 1 on 1 matches.

Think about it, she's a literal ninja in her origin game. Compared to Zelda who is more suited to free for alls because of her slow attacks.

When I told one of my friends about Shiek, he said that she felt underpowered. I find her difficult to use too.

 

[NeoRed]

I think Shiek was designed to be great at 1 on 1 matches.

Think about it, she's a literal ninja in her origin game. Compared to Zelda who is more suited to free for alls because of her slow attacks.

When I told one of my friends about Shiek, he said that she felt underpowered. I find her difficult to use too.

Then why are ZSS, Fox, Ness, Mario, Sonic, Diddy Kong, etc. as good as Sheik? There's something called being good at 1v1 matches and then there's having unFAIR combos.

 

[TurboLink]

I think Shiek was designed to be great at 1 on 1 matches.

Think about it, she's a literal ninja in her origin game. Compared to Zelda who is more suited to free for alls because of her slow attacks.

When I told one of my friends about Shiek, he said that she felt underpowered. I find her difficult to use too.

Since when is having slow attacks a good thing? o.o

 

[smashPony]

Then why are ZSS, Fox, Ness, Mario, Sonic, Diddy Kong, etc. as good as Sheik? There's something called being good at 1v1 matches and then there's having unFAIR combos.

unfair combos? does your character not have any? try addressing the real issue instead of being mad about something that sheik CANNOT rack up damage without. smh.

 

[Joaco]

I told everyone so many times that Sheik won't get a hard nerf.

 

[Metallinatus]

Might be crazy, but I swear sometimes when I do Fair, there's a second... what do you call it? Attack effect for F air right behind the normal one.

Wind box?

I was expecting that Needle nerf.
To be honest, I think we don't get a needle nerf is a really bad sign for the future (if we don't be punished in this patch, I feel we will be hard nerfed after this...)

She got the free pass from jail way too many times already.... I really believe that's how Sakurai wants her to be, I lost my "hope" (can't think of a better word) that she will get nerfed hard one or two patches ago.

I feel like were villains

and i love it

This kinda increases my wish of coming back to Sheik....

Then why are ZSS, Fox, Ness, Mario, Sonic, Diddy Kong, etc. as good as Sheik? There's something called being good at 1v1 matches and then there's having unFAIR combos.

Says the Down Throw Up Tilt lock guy.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I play a character thats noy top tier so lets go COMPLAIN ABOUT TOP TIERS!!

 

[Xephilon]

How is nerfing Luigi but keeping Sheik the same fair? Don't get me wrong, I don't want her to be nerfed to the ground but I want her to have SOME counter play to some things. Simple things like nerf needles knockback and make Up B not invincible so it can be challenged but no, nerf other characters, and leave the most dominating character the same...GG

 

[Joaco]

How is nerfing Luigi but keeping Sheik the same fair? Don't get me wrong, I don't want her to be nerfed to the ground but I want her to have SOME counter play to some things. Simple things like nerf needles knockback and make Up B not invincible so it can be challenged but no, nerf other characters, and leave the most dominating character the same...GG

Ask Saukrai not us.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Who would like to pay respects to Luigi?

 

[Xephilon]

I know, I'm not blaming you guys or anything. I just find it dumb. Although, with this patch they can't call Luigi braindead anymore so there's that ._.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Apparently luigis dthrow combos to utilt and all smash attacks now anyway lol. And they buffed dsmash and down b.

 

[ShiroSSB]

Who would like to pay respects to Luigi?

*Prays*

 

[Xephilon]

Apparently luigis dthrow combos to utilt and all smash attacks now anyway lol. And they buffed dsmash and down b.

Yes and no. You cant Utilt combo fast fallers like Sheik and there hasn't been any data confirming the Dsmash buff or down b buff.

Also, let's stop the Luigi thing here since this is IS the Sheik boards after all.

 

[HeavyLobster]

So characters who needs a buff like Ganon got a slight buff to Nair out of everything, and Sheik, the most annoying, powerful, and clearly dominating character in the game, wasn't touched. GG, sakurai. GG. I'm done with Sheik. Looks like there will be many more months with Sheiks winning 95% of tournaments and Sheiks coming to later matches 99% of the tournaments.

In what world is Sheik even close to being that dominant? Any character that dominant would've been banned pretty quickly. Sheik could use slower needle startup and a tad more lag on BF to make her power level closer to the other top tiers, but she's beatable as is and nowhere near a free win.

 

[WwwWario]

In what world is Sheik even close to being that dominant? Any character that dominant would've been banned pretty quickly. Sheik could use slower needle startup and a tad more lag on BF to make her power level closer to the other top tiers, but she's beatable as is and nowhere near a free win.

Good point, and true. But what I mean by dominant is that, well, take a look at tournaments uploaded to Youtube. Quickly swapping through those videos and looking at thumbnails, you will see Sheik at the grand finals 99% of the time, and also see her on many videos below. To me, she has no cons. She has combos like mad, the best projectile in the game, good recovery, fast, great fast-faller, many lagless areals and moves overall, Bouncing Fish - she has everything. Do 1 small mistake and she will punish you like mad. The ONLY thing that she lacks a bit is kill power, but then again, she has Bouncing Fish, and several setups for it.

 

[New_Dumal]

Kill with Bouncing Fish is not as easy as some people says.
I'm not saying that is hard, I'm saying that if you play against Sheik constantly, you will die for this only as a air dodge punish, or a Nair setup.A great move, one of the best of the game, but is not as easy to hit than... Shuttle Loop.
And I play as Sheik(main) and as Meta Knight(secondary),
SLoop is much more broken, but how MK is worse in general, people don't complain that much.

Most of Sheik players agree that Needles are too good, and Vanish is safier than it should.
Take away Sheik playstyle (as some people want to) is another thing.

 

[WondrousMoose]

I love how so many people have typed so many words, and no one has said anything useful. Such is the quality of pure, unadulterated salt.

 

[_Tree]

Guys...Let's talk about how this could effect Sheik:

"I'm testing Link's frames and every single one of his normals causes more shieldstun. With the way the numbers are changed I think this means that there was a change to the formula for shieldstun.

Jab 1: Shieldstun increased from 1 frames to 4.

Jab 2: Shieldstun increased from 1 frame to 4.

Jab 3: Shieldstun increased from 2 frames to 5.

F-tilt: Shieldstun increased from 6 frames to 10.

D-tilt: Shieldstun increased from 5 frames to 9.

U-tilt: Shieldstun increased from 4 frames to 8.

The shieldstun for the rest of his normals change in a similar pattern.

In addition to this it appears that hitlag modifiers on shield may have changed again. Link's f-smash 2 originally had 12 frames of self shieldlag and the opponent only had 10. Now both Link and the opponent have 12 frames of hitlag. His uncharged spin attack was 10 frames of opponent shieldlag, 11 frames of self shieldlag; now it's 11 frames for both. Full charge was 13 frames of opponent shieldlag, 15 frames of self shieldlag; now it's 15 frames for both.

So what does this mean? Well, not only does it mean that potentially everyone is safer on shield, it also means that some multi-hitting moves are true blockstrings now. So you block one hit you're forced to block the rest. Yoshi/Wario/Mario d-air, Mega Man b-air, Sonic/Dedede/Ryu f-tilt are some examples. Not all multi-hitting moves are like this though (e.g. Fox/Jigglypuff/Dr Mario/Kirby d-air, Super Pit Bros/Lucas n-air, Super Pit Bros/Pikachu f-air, Pikachu b-air, rapid jabs), so I'll have to look into why (most likely because even with the shieldstun increase, the gap between the hits on those attacks is just large enough).

I'm gonna check Ryu and Marth next to see what impact this has on them.

This patch was not as insignificant as some may have thought."

Courtesy of Shaya and LordWilliam1234