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Work In Progress Sheik boards to-do list

_Tree

The no-more hero
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Ok, it's story time. Back around a few weeks after the release of Smash 4 a bunch of Sheiks here would do tons of testing of possible combos, kill percents and generally finding out more nitty-gritty stuff about the character. Fast-forward to now...and things are still pretty good. I'm pretty proud of the state of the Sheik boards and there are still lots of people bringing in great discoveries concerning Sheik. However there are still quite a few things that need to be tested.

There used to be a small group of us doing the testing, but now the boards have grown quite a bit, so what better way to kick off testing all this stuff than allowing everyone to give input?

So here's the current list of stuff that percentages are needed for:

To-do list
1. F-air to Bouncing Fish. What percentage does it start being true at for each character? What percentage does it end?
2. Aerial needles to Bouncing Fish. Same things needed as the above combo.
3. U-tilt (second hit) to Bouncing Fish. Same things needed as the above combo.
4. F-tilt to U-air. Same things needed as the above combo.
5. Fair->Tipper Usmash. Same as above.
6. F-throw->Tipper Usmash. Same as above.
7. Fthrow->Uair (in relation to the chain grab). Same as above.
8. U-tilt -> U-smash. Same as above.
9. fair->fair. Same as above.
10. Bair plane. Same as above.
11. Fsmash -> bouncing fish at 0-20%.
12. Backwards N-air -> U-smash. Same as most above.
13. Basically anything to do with customs. Ping Warrior brought up a good point that nobody really seems to be testing anything to do with them, which isn't great considering how much they're being pushed in the community lately. So pretty much just contribute anything. What percentages does gravity-grenade to U-smash work? What are the kill percentages for Pisces?

Those are the main things off the top of my head. Got anything else you feel needs to be tested? Suggest it here and I'll add it to the list.

If you're only able to test a little bit, just post the data here and it'll be added to the bigger thread when its created. Feel like you could take on a large amount of the testing? Just say so here and I'll put your name next to the list, so people know who's handling what, what stuff needs more people on it etc. Once you have a bunch of information regarding a specific combo, make a new thread for it, don't post here. Make sure it's formatted well and the information is easy to read.

If you do decide to test the percentages of something, make sure you're doing so under the right conditions. If you're testing things to do with DI, use a second person to help rather than doing so alone. Testing stuff to do with rage? Remember that training mode doesn't have it. If you have any questions regarding the method, ask here. There are multiple Sheiks that would be able to help.

Small note: I will be taking over the Match-up thread soon. That thing needs a serious overhaul and update.

Also somebody mod @ ArikadoSD ArikadoSD . His contributions on these boards have been pretty OP.

If I put you on the 'current testers' list, I'll try to contact you every week to see if you're still testing. This is just to see if I should keep you on the list or not.

So that's basically it. I will try and help with as much as I can. Managing Uni is my focus currently, but I go on break in a week, so I'll probably begin working on one of the listed combos soon. If you find a bunch of percents for a specific combo, I'll most likely make a video about it, in which you'll receive the credit. Your hard work won't go unnoticed.

Current Testers
Awaiting testers.
 
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Ping Warrior

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I'll try to find the viable combo percents for Paralysis Needle and Gravity Grenade.

I also did a bit of testing with Abyss and I feel there's some potential to use it vs Villager and maybe Peach. But Villager... I'll post it in the customs thread, it'll be a bit since i'm typing with the WiiU, but I'm all for a 2231 set now
 

_Tree

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Just general combos into different moves? Or specific moves such as BF? Please be specific when stating what you'll work on, so I can clearly list who's working on what in the OP.
 

Spark31

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I'll probobly do some testing on customs. That and U tilt to BF. Hoping on also posting a thread on B reverse potential later too maybe. We'lll see
 

Ping Warrior

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I'll try to test the thresholds for when any given move I listed in the customs thread works. On that one, all my testing was 120% for max stun time. For Gravity Grenade, I'll just test the range of % it works on for Tipper Up Smash since that's the most useful combo from it.
 

Jaxas

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Can we check Ftilt->Uair percents as well? Ftilt is much easier to land that tipper Dtilt, and I'm pretty sure that combos up to kill percents on some characters/stages
 

_Tree

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Can we check Ftilt->Uair percents as well? Ftilt is much easier to land that tipper Dtilt, and I'm pretty sure that combos up to kill percents on some characters/stages
Added.
 

Ping Warrior

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GravityGrenade is crazy... Combos to Up Smash from 0% (up close) to around 480% (far away)
Using Gravity Grenade to Up Smash is basically the truest comboin the game. around ultrahigh %s, you can do a bair and kill even easier.Tested on Mario on FD no DI. I'll check out Paralysis Needle now.
 
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_Tree

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GravityGrenade is crazy... Combos to Up Smash from 0% (up close) to around 480% (far away)
Using Gravity Grenade to Up Smash is basically the truest comboin the game. around ultrahigh %s, you can do a bair and kill even easier.Tested on Mario on FD no DI. I'll check out Paralysis Needle now.
Perhaps list percentages that it'll work at different distances? Also it'd be cool to look at follow-ups after hitting the opponent mid-air. I know B-air works well.
 

Ping Warrior

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k, I'll try to get some estimates. in the meantime,
Paralysis Needle %%%

12% Dash Attack/Grab and Bouncing Fish

~60% Fair, Nair, Up Smash (though difficult and likely DI dependent at this early)

~90% Bair, Dair, Uair

100% I was able to Vanish sometimes by shorthopping it.

I recommend Dash grab at low %, Up Smash around 90 so it might kill, and bouncing fish or fair offstage. Tilts require you to be next to them, but seemed to work between 12-20% ftilt around 12, dtilt 20ish and Utilit I got around 25.
 

Ping Warrior

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Gravity Grenade Distances
Tested on Mario in Training with no DI
Weight Differences likely apply along with size.

0-60% 1/3FD
60-100% 1/3-7/20 FD
100-130% 1/3-2/5 FD
130+% 7/20-1/2 FD
The distance is pretty forgiving since even when I couldn't Tipper Up Smash, I could usually Sourspot Up Smash. Bair % is basically the same since the bair hitbox when shorthopping is close to the Up Smash tip. If they land near Sheik's feet, FSmash, Ftilit, Dtilt hit.
If %s overlap correctly, Gravity Grenade to Utilit to Bouncing Fish should get decent % and might kill. Sometimes I had to turn to get the second hit of Utilit to hit, though.

If that's satisfactory, I'll look into Penetrating Needles for range, Shield Damage, and any knockback differences I can see.
 

Spark31

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Pisces testing stuffs
*No DI, Rage,or Staling taken into effect*
Was tested on a training mode Mario on the 3ds FD
Kills at 82% for minimum distance (Pisces sends enemies behind you, so essentially from a recovery position)
Kills at 113% from center of stage
Kills at 140% for long distance
RS -> Pisces can land from anywhere from 0-125%
RS -> A small jump before inputting Pisces can work from ~73-152%
RS -> Jump -> Pisces depending on height can work anywhere up to ~215%
RS -> Jump -> Pisces can increase this combo percent up to ~240% if forward momentum is added to the jump.

RS -> Pisces is most likely only a true combo with the small jump. It is interesting to note that the distance of Pisces is determined by the height of the jump in combination with forward momentum, unlike BF.
 

Spark31

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I did some testing with Mario
U-Tilt -> BF (Bottom of leg hitbox) can true combo in the training menu from 45-69%
U-Tilt -> BF (Heel hitbox) can true combo in the training mode from 48-73%
NOTE: No rage, staling, or DI were taken into account for these percentages
 

Spark31

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NOTE: These combos are true combos in the training menu; however, no rage, staling, or DI were taken into account

U-Tilt -> BF on the entire Mario cast members:
:4mario:
U-tilt -> BF (Bottom of leg hitbox)
43%-74%
U-tilt -> BF (Heel hitbox)
48%-77%


:4luigi:
U-tilt -> BF (Bottom of leg hitbox)
42%-73%
U-tilt -> BF (Heel hitbox)
47%-75%

:4peach:
U-tilt -> BF (Bottom of leg hitbox)
40%-68%
U-tilt -> BF (Heel hitbox)
45%-76%

:4bowser:
U-tilt -> BF (Bottom of leg hitbox)
51%-96%
U-tilt -> BF (Heel hitbox)
56%-95%

:rosalina:
U-tilt -> BF (Bottom of leg hitbox)
37%-61%
U-tilt -> BF (Heel hitbox)
42%-72%

:4bowserjr::4larry::4roy::4wendy::4iggy::4morton::4lemmy::4ludwig:
U-tilt -> BF (Bottom of leg hitbox)
45%-87%
U-tilt -> BF (Heel hitbox)
50%-91%

:4drmario:
U-tilt -> BF (Bottom of leg hitbox)
44%-79%
U-tilt -> BF (Heel hitbox)
48%-79%
I will edit this post to include other series in the future.
 

ArikadoSD

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@ Spark31 Spark31 are you including the possibility of jumping to do a bouncing fish too? after the 2nd hit of utilt at higher percentages. I'm pretty sure I used it on a DK with 110-120% hp and it was a combo.
 

Spark31

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@ ArikadoSD ArikadoSD I don't actually think that that will register as a perfect combo.

EDIT: After a bit of testing on bowser, it is possible, but VERY finicky I may test it after I have my default hitbox combo data completed.
 
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Wasserwipf

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I want to add
-Fair->Tipper Usmash
-F-throw->Tipper Usmash (dunno if thats ever true)
-Fthrow->Uair (for the chaingrab...)
-fair->fair (how far can we REALLY go?)
-Bair->BF (is this nevessary)
-Bair plane (dunno if thats true...)

Also, we could use google docs as a little help, I once made one for Needles->BF, we could either trust each other ( I want) or "invite only" and have those post here... well here's an example.
 

ArikadoSD

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Can we try out Fsmash -> bouncing fish at 0-20%? I /always/ land it on most characters and none of them ever broke out but for some reason it never registers as a true combo in training. I'm not sure if people aren't expecting bouncing fish after fsmash or they're not doing anything, or the combo is true but training refuses to register it for some odd reason.
 
Last edited:

Illuminose

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Doing some research on up tilt -> bouncing fish true combos while I have time, I'll post numbers that I get. Both hits unless otherwise noted, in training mode with no rage or DI. All percentages rounded to a factor of 5. The parentheses contains data on when a jump is needed. Buffer for optimal results (jump -> bouncing fish typically doesn't true combo from up tilt without a buffeted jump, and it may also be required at earlier percents). Some of these took some tries to get as some of the high percent windows to execute the combos with proper buffering can be tight.

I'm convinced that bouncing fish may be unescapable slightly past and slightly before these percents btw (within around 15%), but there's no real proof to back this up.

Captain Falcon: 45-115% (past 85%)

Ganondorf: 50-100% (past 80%)

Rosalina & Luma: 40-80% (past 55%)

Luigi: 40-85% (past 65%)

Pikachu: 50-115% (past 65%, second hit only as it is almost impossible to get both hits vs Pikachu)

ZSS: 45-85% (past 70%)

Sonic: 50-100% (past 75%)

Ness: 40-105% (past 65%)

Diddy Kong: 45%-110% (past 70%, tested hit 2 because getting landing both hits on Diddy is difficult and the percentages are the same)
 
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_Tree

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-Fair->Tipper Usmash
-F-throw->Tipper Usmash (dunno if thats ever true)
-Fthrow->Uair (for the chaingrab...)
-fair->fair (how far can we REALLY go?)
-Bair->BF (is this nevessary)
-Bair plane (dunno if thats true...)
Fsmash -> bouncing fish at 0-20%
Added.

Doing some research on up tilt -> bouncing fish true combos while I have time
Added to testers.
 

ArikadoSD

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Also, if no one does fair to bouncing fish by the time I finish exams (12th june) then I'll do it then, cuz I've really wanted to know the accurate percents for a long time. I can do it up until ~100% roughly on most characters and I need accurate percents.
 

_Tree

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Also, if no one does fair to bouncing fish by the time I finish exams (12th june) then I'll do it
Added to testers.
 

Lyfe

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After a bit of time in thet lab, I think that Fthrow>Tipper Usmash can be removed, as it is practically worthless. It is difficult to execute, not at much % as Fthrow>BF, and is practically impossible on anyone lighter than Zamus even with perfect DI. Pretty much only useful for styling against a heavy character. Its a shame its so unreliable.
 

_Tree

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After a bit of time in thet lab, I think that Fthrow>Tipper Usmash can be removed, as it is practically worthless. It is difficult to execute, not at much % as Fthrow>BF, and is practically impossible on anyone lighter than Zamus even with perfect DI. Pretty much only useful for styling against a heavy character. Its a shame its so unreliable.
Regardless of its usefulness, these boards are the ultimate resource for Sheik information. Everything, merit or no, should be tested as well as stated.
 

ArikadoSD

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After a bit of time in thet lab, I think that Fthrow>Tipper Usmash can be removed, as it is practically worthless. It is difficult to execute, not at much % as Fthrow>BF, and is practically impossible on anyone lighter than Zamus even with perfect DI. Pretty much only useful for styling against a heavy character. Its a shame its so unreliable.
I'm pretty sure the it's not a combo and just a read, much like the dthrow vanish setup. I've used fthrow to usmash a couple times as a mixup and it catches some people offguard sometimes.
 

Ping Warrior

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After a bit of time in thet lab, I think that Fthrow>Tipper Usmash can be removed, as it is practically worthless. It is difficult to execute, not at much % as Fthrow>BF, and is practically impossible on anyone lighter than Zamus even with perfect DI. Pretty much only useful for styling against a heavy character. Its a shame its so unreliable.
You wouldn't believe how far I get in bracket by closing stocks with that. If they like to airdodge moves, let them airdodge an f-throw -> Bouncing Fish and then get them with F-throw -> Usmash. You look so cool and you get to close the stock way earlier than Sheik is known for since you charge for the duration of the airdodge.
 

ArikadoSD

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Alright finally able to lab. Do I post results here or should I start a thread?

Gonna post quick results I got here anyway and then see what to do:

Tested on Mario in FD with no rage, DI, or staleness taken into account (I kept SDing after every hit to refresh)

Fastfalling Fair to bouncing fish starts comboing at 25%.

Starting 73-77%, you can't follow up falling Fair with bouncing fish anymore ad you're required to run a bit and jump right before doing bouncing fish; it should connect.

It stopped comboing after 107%. I was able to register it as a true combo after that percent but it didn't happen consistently so yeah.

Basically: Starts from 25%. At 73-77% you have to run and jump. Stops working as early as 107%.
 

_Tree

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Cool beans. If you have the concrete numbers for every character, start a new thread to detail them. If it's just general info like that, posting here should be fine for the time being.
 

_Tree

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Bringing this out of the darkness since all this stuff would be useful to know. Reset all the people testing, so just tell me if you want to take something on.
 

ArikadoSD

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I actually have an unfinished table in a word document about fair to bf lol.. one day I might finish it :[ but now is not that day
 

HoSmash4

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Leo
:4bayonetta:
vs Chag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMvByD07FGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfODwzo-duI&t=634s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfIGbJ0LtEI&t=138s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4dEJBoQ04
vs Lima
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c-w-9Cw91o
vs Random Bayo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGjO3WC8BbI
vs Salem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldn6ygiHBbU
vs Wonf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NfGB4-ic64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU3naKdHWB4
:4bowser:
vs Pllo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0l3I02hLhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-N7ARQ-GAw
:4bowserjr:
:4falcon:
vs Random Falcon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEdRsaEPajo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5btnAA0HW_I
:4charizard:
vs Serge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBnsOQckmaA
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsTR5W_0AuI
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:4corrin:
:4dedede:
:4darkpit:
:4diddy:
vs Zero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiyWzbCVV8A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atA0CcUZwqs&t=246s
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBU3L3_zSDc
:4dk:
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:4drmario:
:4duckhunt:
vs You3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MakOMS_QIb4
:4falco:
:4fox:
vs Random Fox
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc57R00XiNM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICGrVQiVvI8
vs CDK
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z12XLU56kig
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vs Larry Lurr
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:4ganondorf:
:4greninja:
vs Random Greninja
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXt7X-0fWLg
vs iStudying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik4OiH34Y68
:4myfriends:
:4jigglypuff:
:4kirby:
:4littlemac:
vs random mac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-9ZUEQvBfQ
:4link:
vs Random Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4hQTcN7Cfw
:4lucario:
vs Richi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LCjSd8rbBI 1
vs Serge
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6Hf8AJeCvI
:4lucas:
vs Random Lucas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfxttTymSFQ
:4lucina:
:4luigi:
vs Random Luigi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrsP75uFeoI
vs Elegant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diGJ6IoCm7U&t=2s
:4mario:
vs Ally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saTJQx2HEfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc9V21Ns8Vw&t=52s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrbii8iFz1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2hPlLyrswI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5ImnB2VhE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B-dPYPrK-8
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:4megaman:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9TI0vEOGdI
vs REgi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62R_6-_Pko4
:4mewtwo:
vs Zoan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBnAe2gI5P4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsyxpnjGTos
vs Random Mewtwo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD_Iz21IBBE
vs Deathorse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGJMtXuwgtU
:4gaw:
:4ness:
vs Taranito
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI-1RNK-Z_Q
:4olimar:
vs Shuton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qaAmc5ZELo&t=1s
:4pacman:
:4palutena:
:4peach:
vs Random Peach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt7tuOjiG6I
vs Samsora
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKSTlBzfgyk
:4pikachu:
vs Esam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2ZOlNMltzw
vs Nakat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUD1cUUKfq8
:4pit:
:4rob:
vs Sassy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXv03i3sS70
:4robinm:
vs Random robin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y1s7Z3cSIw
vs Jerm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHnkR2DdPH4
:rosalina:
vs Dabuz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNo_2gYraWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEdVcY7UU6g
:4feroy:
vs Levi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFXRNiyz7h4
vs Cloudy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJFKGaVvn2o
:4ryu:
vs Jumbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjYPqgA5-yo
vs Trela
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXTFLXdagnM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV2gszHwKic
vs Darkshad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axQTPTe0jHk
vs False
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k79GaTUcMgY
:4samus:
vs Untouchable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZDUdBmm5ZU 1
:4sheik:
vs Javi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvYWMjM1MFk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X87-lfRyJm8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00tnewZ5Fg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47zNOiX5w18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6eW8mQlco4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dokGGO_hCo&t=1686s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuMzsM1_Wko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Fw5CHT6cY
vs Void
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njXhFLY0OZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0JlPcYYd6I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjkI6uwBSLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlzUAdZJ5A8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lLrdK7ebDA
vs Random Sheik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JMvBy0C27A
vs Karna
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLmcv-SYWNo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0nNaCsGomI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKez15C58eg
vs Mr.R
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm45ON8TbRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xGFjnUeEYo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEgCOb4Kqn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzL7xp9yDvI&t=3s
vs Yoh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9pqiOTv4oM
vs Bedgar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90R-HrZ6N10
:4shulk:
vs Nicko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz4IB4E7MpE
:4sonic:
vs Ken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQRZl7ql4iQ
vs Espy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IafpBDivy1o
vs 6WX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYgIgSXNuCg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Mt_eV_0hA
vs Wonf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeNJK08RnD0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx6lBaMD1OQ
:4tlink:
:4villagerf:
vs Dr.Zeus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSfa_KGHEeY
:4wario:
vs Waymas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu93exVqY6k
vs Random Wario
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkRhiBPcCTw
:4wiifit:
vs JohnNumbers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEhh2LGCkbk
:4yoshi:
vs Seth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5lD2X6DAM0
:4zelda:
:4zss:
vs Nairo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY6V_c5wGI4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcwEuD0dOrE
vs Marss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3Vq-uCapYA
 
Last edited:

Demna

Smash Lord
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
1,356
Location
Kuwait
3DS FC
1478-4225-1103
I'll do B-air>BF
As for the percentages, I will be using multiples of 5.
Edit: I will also take F-air>Tipper Upsmash
Is Nair>BF Included too? If so, I'll take care of it as well.
 
Last edited:
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