Sheik and her viability in PAL regions.

[Spoice]

So I was looking through the most recent PAL tier list and saw that Sheik had been dropped from 3rd to 5th, so I got curious and wondered why this was. I found a small bit from Amsah which states:

“In today’s game, where people primarily play reaction based, rarily make technical mistakes, punish the smallest mistakes as hard as their characters are technically capable and where people study characters to know the do’s and don’ts in every matchup, Sheik loses most of her effectiveness.

She has nothing to offer against crouch cancels on reaction except grabs, but unlike in NTSC, those don’t set up combo or techchase opportunities nearly as well, if at all. Combine that with the fact that Sheik arguably has the least versatile, easily edgeguardable and worst recovery of the top characters and you get a character that simply doesn’t have the tools to deal with the current metagame at the highest levels.”

Now in my own local scene, personally, I still think Sheik is a force to be reckoned with, but when, potentially, the top Sheik player in Europe is basically saying Sheik can't keep up with today's meta, it makes me think that Sheik isn't a character that is worth using, which sucks, because I personally love to watch matches with her in them.

What do you guys think of her viability in the PAL region, and do you think she's losing her grip on the current meta, potentially also dropping her down a few spots on the NSTC region as well?

 

[Seal]

I don't see sheik dropping much in NTSC. Her down throw is the best throw in the entire game by a wide margin. I can see sheik becoming worse when compared to the spacies due to the rapidly increasing skill ceiling and widening power gap which seems to be higher for the spacies,, but in relation to the rest of the cast, I don't think she will lose her place.

 

[Scroll]

PAL Sheik is easily underrated by NTSC players.
Lemme remind you some of her strong assets.
One of the best shields in the game.
Arguably the best projectile in the game.
The best Ftilt in the game.
The best Fair in the game.
The best tech chase in the game.
The best edge guarding in the game.

Yes she lost her Down Throw -> aerial and CG.
And she lost her ability to kill upwards.
Those are hella strong arguments why Sheik needs to be placed lower than NTSC, but far from what it takes to deem a character nonviable.

Besides Sheik's meta have been almost at a standstill for quite a few years. Some people are actually working on it rather than pondering why it's outdated.

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

Pal sheiks problem is mostly against floaties. She loses her kill setups against them, which in turn means she has an insanely hard matchup against peach/puff.
In pal she has losing matchups against fox, falco, peach, puff and ics. She has winning matchups against marth and falcon. (And obviously an even matchup with herself)
She can still beat anything, she just has to do a lot more for her wins. (Peach/puff without kill setup are pretty much impossible after a certain point though)
Also @ Scroll pal sheik can't techchase as reliable anymore due to di away/tech away actually being a far distance to cover. (Also di away with sheik/marth isn't regrabbable anymore) I'm willing to argue falcons techchase is more reliable in pal.

As for ntsc she's top 4 on pretty much anyone's list with the only character with the potential to kick her to 5 is falcon and I personally don't see that happening before 2017. (Which wouldn't make her less relevant to the meta, Falcon would just become more relevant)

 

[Scroll]

DI away Tech Roll away is one of the reasons I am a huge fan of Yoshi's with PAL Sheik.
If you chose that option you will put youself in the corner as a bare minimum.

That aside tech chase on reaction is deffinatly possible in PAL. No doubt.
The option you mention take no more skill to react to than tech in place.

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

DI away Tech Roll away is one of the reasons I am a huge fan of Yoshi's with PAL Sheik.
If you chose that option you will put youself in the corner as a bare minimum.

That aside tech chase on reaction is deffinatly possible in PAL. No doubt.
The option you mention take no more skill to react to than tech in place.

Skill wasn't the problem. The kind of followups you get from your tech chase are. In ntsc it's (depending on position) pretty much always possible to techchase with a flowchart punish about as guaranteed a chaingrab. (The only outs being platforms and the edge) in pal after 30% ish sheik has to respect sheik and marth if they di away or get faired. Against spaceys the chaingrab is guaranteed however di away still means the sheik has less followup which makes it way easier for spaceys to get out by just grabbing edge. (If they can invincible waveland this is a free out too.

pal sheiks tech chase is still really good but it offers escape options where ntsc sheik would just kill you. Which means she has to compromise.
Hence I believe palcon has a better tech chase.

 

[Laudandus]

I'm pretty confident that PAL Sheik beats Falco but loses to Marth (I kinda believe both of those things in NTSC, and iirc both become more true in PAL).

I also think that Sheik doesn't have the best fair (Marth and Falcon have some p good fairs) but does have the best bair but that's not really too relevant to this

 

[Stride]

I'm pretty confident that PAL Sheik beats Falco but loses to Marth (I kinda believe both of those things in NTSC, and iirc both become more true in PAL).

I also think that Sheik doesn't have the best fair (Marth and Falcon have some p good fairs) but does have the best bair but that's not really too relevant to this

I don't see how Sheik can have a better matchup with Falco in PAL than NTSC. Could you elaborate?

 

[anjohns]

Yeah in PAL Falco destroys Sheik. She already loses to him in NTSC and Sheik is undeniably worse in PAL so the matchup is pretty steep in my opinion. I've been playing in the UK all summer and as a Sheik main it's been pretty tough as of late. Pretty much the only thing that Sheik has left against spacies is the off stage game because d-throw was mangled. (Though I think it was good to balance it I still miss it so much.)

 

[Laudandus]

I think Sheik beats Falco in NTSC. I also think Sheik's dthrow techchase is about as good in PAL as it is in NTSC, because the dash-forward bit is not that much harder than dealing with the ambiguous crossup landing (Druggedfox agrees with me and he is amazing at tech chasing). Falco has a (relatively real, it seems to me) nerf to his dair, so it should be slightly better for Sheik, but I don't have much experience with PAL to say.

 

[anjohns]

Well the only difference in Falco's dair is that in the latter part of the animation it sends the opponent out at a 90 degree angle rather than being a spike. At higher percents it has a similar effect to being hit straight down. I think in PAL it's easier for Sheik to cover the tech in place option but the tech away by spacies is pretty hard to cover unless you get the read and go for the boost grab to get them before they can shine or spot dodge.

 

[Spluvin]

I was thinking of making switch of mains from fox to shiek. Good thing I read this thread before I invested to much time.

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

I was thinking of making switch of mains from fox to shiek. Good thing I read this thread before I invested to much time.

It's not like sheiks unviable. It's just that she has some matchups that are less than ideal.