SHDL problems, and sheik matchup...

[Dark_Meow1]

I really want to get down SHDLing, but I can't barely pull it off. I flick the control stick, and press b almost immediately after, (simultaneously really), and I either jump fully, or I don't press B fast enough. I think it just needs practice, but I wanted to make sure there wasn't a more effective method to practice (I heard SHDLing is actually one of the most useful things you can learn as a fox).

My second problem is a Sheik matchup, he doesn't play as good as most sheiks, but is fairly good. What is a good strategy against Sheiks? I usually use dash dancing, shfflc and alot of shining, but it doesn't work very well. Should I try to waveshine combo sheiks more? I found arials are not so important in that matchup, because Sheik is good with arials but hates the ground ^.^ I just don't know how to take advantage of it ^.^ Any advice?

 

[psicicle]

use the buttons for shorthop?

 

[LaserBust]

SHDL is not rly as usefull as it may seem. Its good for long range campin but you rly dont get the chance too often. Its decently usefull tho, I guess.. especialy on the taller, slower characters. I use the analog stick and pretty much do what you do.. flick the stick then press B .. alot. I think I got my SHDL to about 4-5/10, its actualy pretty hard for me cuz I use X to do everthing.. (Wavedash, waveshine, shorthop, etc) but I cant SHDL with X which makes me switch to Analog.. which suks.. Make sure you can SHL on command tho, thats waay more usefull IMO. As for yur full jumping just pratice yur short hops, all to it.

Note- A promblem alot of ppl have wit analog is flickin the analog towards the left, makin yur character turn left b4 doing w/e if facing right. My way avoiding this was just switchin to X which leads to my SHDL promblem, but I dont care about that.. All you can do is make sure you dont flick it left and just pay attention to yur thumb..

I play a rly good shiek in my city, and its funny cuz he can beat my Lui, falco, Marth sometimes but never beat my fox (Hehehe). Umm, my shiek is sooooooo aggresive its rly ez to defend. He likes to come at me full force and I just let em eat sex kicks. Umm, im not rly intimidated by shieks air game tho I know it is pretty painfull. I usualy try to do weak sex kicks into shine combos and just go from there..I never have time to camp.. and quite frankly I dont want to with her stupid needles..Uthrow > Uair *****. Just kill verticly as much as possible.

 

[SCOTU]

The SHDL is really only useful at long ranges. slide finger from y>bb to perform. (that's how i do it anyway, but i used to do it w/ the control stick, but then it's more difficult to move while doing it)

WAVESHINE THE HELL OUT OF SHEIK. She's really easy to waveshine combo. try drillshine>wavedash>usmash. that'll tack on ~35% (full drill) and send her up. it'll kill her if you do it to her while she's at 55-65%. She can also be flatland infinited w/ drillshines (not recommended unless you're really good at it)

 

[Dark_Meow1]

Kay, I have been practicing the SHDL, and I've also been practicing the sheik matchup. They go hand in hand. SHDL the sheik, which if they are not top tier intimidates them (I got this sheik to about 22 percent before he got mad and dashed), then wd backwards then forwards and grabbed into an upthrow, and from there open game. I have to say, you guys were right, uthrow = n00b sheik death. The SHDL thing is still hard to pull off, I am thinking of finding a better more sensitive controller out there somewhere (know where to buy one?)

Anywho, I'll post a video of the matchup soon ^.^ Thanx guys ^^

 

[SCOTU]

it's not about controller sensativity, it's about speed, you finger speed. actually it doesn't even seem fast to me anymore, but whatever, it used to be. just slide from y>b>b. so long as your finger gets to b quickly enough from y, the second b is just as if you were shooting two lasers on the ground. SHDL isn't all that great against sheik because she's pretty fast, but if you're at a long range it works, plus it guarantees a hit on a crouching sheik. Waveshine>usmash wrecks sheik btw.

 

[Hylian]

I use the control stick to SHDL...but then again I use the control stick for a lot of things >_>. You just need practice. IMO SHDL is more useful then SHL if you can do it well. It is not significantly slower and has the chance to do more damage plus the fact that it is more intimidating >_>.

For shieks...

Get in the air more. Shiek probably has the best ground game out of any character with her amazing tilt and grab combos. Drillshine to waveshine grab upthrow upair or just upsmash instead. Nair to waveshine jab grab upthrow upair. Just keep shining after every areial and make sure you are spacing well so you don't get grabbed..shiek has a horrible dash dance game and fox has one of the best so make use of that. Make the shiek feel like its hopeless. watch out for needles into grab..try and recover fast so as not to be caught by needles..

hope some of that helped>_>.

 

[SCOTU]

but don't recover too fast, or too close to the stage, or you'll get fair gimped. guaranteed. IMO the shl and shdl are for different things, shdl for long range, and shl for medium/ short range. Plus ths shl has more mobility (although hylian will probably contest this) and mindgame uses. Good players don't get intimidated. but make sure to abuse both waveshine combos and uthrow>uair combos. combine the two into one super ownage of sheik: waveshine>grab>uthrow>uair. Also you can try the nair>jab>grab/uthrow>uair.

 

[Hylian]

Yeah I have pleanty of mobility with SHDL >_>...You just have to know how to move while you are doing it...I can almost always get off 10% before I have to start dashdancing around especially if I am playing a peach or ganon >_>. I use this to get a grab sometimes because people are not used to fox's moving backwards while shdling and the often miss a grab which means a free grab for me >_>. Lasers will not make or brake a match though so don't focus too much on them. Focus more on grabs into upairs and things like that.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

y>b>b is the easiest IMO. It doesnt require as much speed that way. If you practice correctly you should have it down in 1 or 2 days tops.

 

[RedYoshi92]

SHDL can be useful for long range.What you can do is slide you thumb from Y to B or X to B.You need some spacing when facing a good sheik.Focus on getting her off the stage by using aerial and shines.

 

[SCOTU]

by mobility w/ lasers (which i knew hylian was going to challenge) i meant the ability to move far w/ one jump and be able to change direcions really fast. the SHDL is only so-so at this, while the shl/ rshl is really really good at that. Don't get me wrong hylian i love shdling to and you definately can move w/ it, but you can practically dash dance w/ the shl.

 

[Dark_Meow1]

I dunno what to say. The shl does do almost as good, but SHDL can give an extra 35 damage per game, which is worth learning for imho. And the arial thing doesn't always work with sheik, and my waveshines only go so far before they get a breather, or ledge hop nair or fair. I'm really looking for good combo breakers, ground and air. The sheik hates me!

 

[SCOTU]

shine/ bair. they break combos.

Edit: what i was saying about the shdl's mobility is not that you shouldn't use it, just that you should use it while you have space. the shl is much better for moving quickly, so as to avoid fast players, where the shdl doesn't cover as much ground w/ as much speed, and if they're close to you, you want the time advantage of the shl.

2nd Edit: believe me, i use both fairly effectively (at my level of play anyway). hylian only appears to like the shdl, but if that's what works for him, so be it. i used to only use the shdl, but then i switched it up when i wanted better mobility. (and just for hylian, yes i can shdl in both directions while moving, before you go saying it's because i can't.)

 

[LaserBust]

yay scotu has 600 post! err, wut air thing? You mean wut hylian said about gettin in the air alot? Attackin from the Air is one of foxes best approaches and leads into shine comboes, you just have to pick the right move and not be predictible. Try mixing up yur Air game and attempt the unattempted. Like.. You dont have to Uair every single time yur oppenent is above u.. instead you could try doing a rising Dair into a fallin Uair, with the Dair keeping her close 2nd hit of the Uair is a little more guaranteed. Just dont be predictible, abuse foxes ownage dashdance as hylian said and waveshine alot cuz its one the best advatages you have agaisnt shiek.

 

[SCOTU]

hm. now that i think about it, DI is the best combo breaker. Fox's aerial game is superior to sheiks and should be used to full advantage (w/o being predictable). And my favorite thing to do in the game (and it works in this matchup) is to wavshine combo. Every time you hit sheik w/ a shine, she should either die, or take at least 20% (waveshine>usmash). Near the edge, try waveshine>dsmash at mid %s. (those percents where it'll actually send her farther than another shine, but not high enough %s where a usmash would kill, cause then you should usmash). Plus, if you've been waveshining>usmashing all day, they'll probably be DIing down and way after a waveshine, the worst DI for a dsmash. and the only way i've had any consistancy of manipulating my opponent is by messing w/ their DI.

 

[Dark_Meow1]

alright, waveshine>uthrow>uair works good, and so does waveshine>usmash. I've also found Sheik doesn't like being shined when away from the stage (nor do any other characters aside from jiggs and kirby). More news on success later ^.^

 

[Hylian]

All this advice is good.

And about the laser thing - I agree that SHL is more useful when closer to the opponent...because it is faster. The distance you go when doing a reverse SHL and a reverse SHDL is exactly the same. But the SHL is faster meaning you can move sooner. The reason I don't use it however is because at the points that I would SHL instead of SHDL I instead focus on getting either a grab jab or drill off on my opponent.sometimes a running shine as well. I love dashdanceing around while circle jumping and empty shffles...so I do that instead of lasering. If you ever watch me play though you will see why I SHDL so much.

Quote from G@be standing behind me while I am playing DarknessOfHeart:
"How the **** do you laser so well?" XD.

I usually laser too much though so I'm biased XD. Do whatever you are best at is what I say.

 

[SCOTU]

hmm.. no, i've actually never watched you play. Do you have vids posted, i'm trying to improve my laser game.