Several questions about Marth dittos

[Puffin]

My friend just switched his main from Fox to Marth (who he used to main), and I need help with a few strategies when we're caught up in dittos. Could somebody help me out?

1. After searching the forums, I see a lot of people suggesting approaching with a dash-cancelled D-tilt. Every time I do this, I get Fsmashed in the face. I would do it out of a dash dance, but you can't cancel the initial dash animation with a crouch. Solution?

2. Even when one of us has made it back to the ledge, we can't get back on the stage. I generally try to ledge-hop Fair, but the Fsmash just has so much more priority and range than any other Marth attacks. When he tries to get up any way, he does the same. How can I get the edge here?

3. How do you approach a Marth who likes to dash dance away as soon as he's in your range?

4. Other than the low-damage Fthrow-fthrow-whatever combo at 0% damage, what can you do out of a grab?

Thanks.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

1. Wavedash out of dash dance and do whatever you want.

2. is abit unclear, are you asking how to get back on stage from the ledge when marth is right there at you? bait an attack if thats the case, use the invincibility frames from the ledge.

3. Outshoot an attack or make him run out of room

 

[Puffin]

Bluedeath, that is what I was asking with the second one. However, when I try to bait an attack (say by standing up), he'll do an Fsmash immediately, then a second one when I'm still lagging but not invincible. Or, instead of a second one, he'll Fthrow-Fsmash.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

lol you're stabbing up over 100% or you're not acting immediately..and f-throws to f-smash shouldn't be working if you've got any sort of % on you.

Try get up from ledge attacks if hes not very defensive on it and purely f-smashes. By what you are saying, he'd be easy to get around just by ledgehopping or letting go and regrabbing quickly, anything to mix it up and cause him to predict wrong. Don't be so direct.

 

[Puffin]

We only use Fthrow-Fsmash at low percentages on the stage, but if we do it to each other on the ledge, it seems that the only options are to DI toward and be Fsmashed, or DI away and be edgeguarded. But I'll try mixing it up a bit with ledge attacks, and hopefully avoid the problem. Also, I generally try to shield after I get up from the edge, which always leads to a grab, but hopefully this should fix that problem too.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Di down and away after the grab, he won't be able to follow it up.

 

[Salaad]

Well...

1. I just DD camp in Marth dittos.

2. Ledgehopped Nair? Idk, but if there's some distance you could Ledgehopp>Waveland>grab. Usually I use Ledgehopped attacks right after I grab the ledge.

3. I don't really know on this one, I guess WD grab?

4. On stages with platforms, I like to Uthrow>Utilt until they're on the platforms where I have the advantage. From there I just do random combo's..I guess you can say I make it up as I go along..

(These are all from personal experience) Someone correct me if I'm wrong =/

 

[Roche_CL]

1. If you get Fsmashed while approaching, trick him. Approach but don't attack, so you don't leave your arm to be hit, he will miss, and you can then land him a tipper (because he extends his arm while doing the smash).

2. If he always Fsmashes when you get up on the stage, simply ledge-hop as if you where going to attack, and then air-dodge inside, he will miss, you can then grab and stuff. But that is only if he Fsmashes you all the time, a more patient marth will wait for the dodge and Fsmash after it.

3. I dunno, if he runs away, probably he will corner himself. If he sometimes attack out of the DD, wait with Dtilt. Or start DD too.

4. I find the best option, Fthrow->Fsmash. If your opponents knows how to DI, the chain throw ends on the second throw, better do a lot more damage with a Fsmash, that can be a tipper. Another variation, if you don't wanna be so cheap, you can double Fair out of the Fthrow, if he DIs outwards, the combos ends, so no combo against pro players, just Fthrow fast so they can't react and DI properly, then land the Fsmash.
I think there are two other options with wrong DIed grabs.
Near the edge on some characters, like peach (I don't really know if it works on marth), Dthrow -> Fsmash (while she's in the air)
that is only possible in the edge because they can tech before you Fsmash.
Back throw -> Bair, if you're lucky, you can Ken combo out of it, or just simply kill at high percentages if you manage to hit the tipper of the Bair.

 

[FrostByte]

1) After a Dash dance, you have several options. You can use an areial, fair or AC nair to bait them into going for the grab or just to attack. Your ground options are over B, dash attack, sheild and grab.

2) Use your invincibility frames to WD back onto the ledge and buffer a roll with the c-stick at the same time. What way you'll roll on the first avaliable frame.

3) This is where the Dtilt comes in handy. It gives you enough space for error just in case you miss the dtilt. You can use any non-special attack (you must move either forward or backwards to use your special ones) or just run in a direction. Dash attack also works though it is a lot riskier.

4) You can also uthrow at low % just to keep him in the air. This is where Marth is most vunerable, so watch what he does and try to counter accordingly.

 

[Klowne]

1: I'd just wavedash into the dtilt.

2: I'd deffinately airial dodge in this situation. Once you both start to expect the airial dodge from each other, you can start mixing it up with wavelanding > spot dodge/grab

3. Dash dancing is a major aspect of Marth dittos, i'd actually suggest you learn to do it too. But aside from that, just be aware of your zone and learn to apply spot dodging; it really helps against marth.

4. Actually, i try to just Fthrow them quickly (without jabs) hoping they don't DI, then use SHDF > fsmash. Of course, this only works with not-so-good DI on your opponent's part, but it's not like you can really do anything besides tech chase if they have good DI, so i may as well just throw it out there. Also, Uthrowing just for the advantage of being below him is good too, you just need to know how to properly apply the Utilt and Uair to pressure an opponent when they're above you.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109510

Done and done-er.

 

[knightpraetor]

after you di the dthrow down and away (preferable from just away in most cases because away sends you too far directly out allowing them to come off stage at you or setup better..though i'm not sure if down is bad...it tends to work just about the same for me..but i guess you're in danger of run off to bair maybe? hmm my friends don't punish it though when i use that either)..

anyways after you di the throw...try to hop so that you magnet grab and get pulled to the ledge..just jump slightly below the ledge and the game will pull you to it..this is what people usually mean when they talk about perfect sweetspotting

anyways if your friend i just fsmash edgeguarding it shouldn't be that much of a problem..what's more scary are dtilts

 

[Miztik]

Most marth dittos depends on each person style of play really and you should try to control the action cuz it seems like your friend is a good camper so just dash dance around and try to get him to approach you cuz when he comes at you he may not be as confortable and you play to your advantage if your agressive when he comes to you just play faster than him and try to pull of some combos

dont fall into his trap of camping cuz your most likely falling into a series of mind games and combos that maybe hard to get out of once again depending on style and smarts of you friend