Series limits Smash4 will establish?

[Overtaken]

All the discussion and analysis of the roster and series in general got me thinking. Is it reasonable to believe that the size and depth of the roster is going to be largely exhausted with the release of Smash 4? The total roster size surely has some upper limit, and being that there is little room to believe anything other than that SSB4 will have a smaller increase in size than Brawl, which will mark the end of the huge, almost exponential growth trend between the first three games. This leads me to believe we might be near such a point, and I'm not keen on chalking it entirely up to 3ds limitations. As the roster goes up, it probably takes a geometrically increasing amout of time to balance the game. If this is true, we would expect to see the cut-veterans-to-newcomers ratio to be 1:1 in Smash 5 and beyond. The only remedy I see in this is perhaps a reluctant acceptance of clones.

Also, the character selection itself could become problematic. This game could mark the point where all major characters, side-kicks, 3rd party icons and villians (save for Ridley) will be in the game. New IPs only gets you so far, and looking at the state of things for the WiiU, it's going to be even worse than ever.

Does anyone think differently on this? Am I off? What will Smash 4 mean for the future of the series?

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

I agree that the series will reach its pinnacle with this installment. 95% of all major Nintendo characters, franchises and series will be well represented. New fighters to be considered for the next Smash Bros. game will be reaching Waluigi levels of obscurity. The only way for Nintendo to continue to increase the roster size without sacrificing veterans is if they build off of SSB4 and reuse the assets, materials and keep the same architecture. I highly believe this is the road they will take. SSB4 will build the basis of the next Smash game, since the HD assets would have already been created

 

[chronomantic]

There's always the new characters appearing in already established series between instalments (eg Rosalina just to name one) or those who take more prominent roles. After all there are what 6-7 years between each game?
The complete roster of this game would probably help us shed a light on this matter.

 

[soviet prince]

well app there ridley and rool for next smash

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

I felt that way after Brawl, but Sakurai and the Smash team are persevering.

If it ever gets to the point where Nintendo has to scrape the barrel for character or gameplay ideas, Sakurai will probably retire from the series. Won't that be a sad day in 2018 when we hear there's a new Smash and our ol' boy isn't behind it?

 

[Smash G]

If it goes like other fighters we'll just start alternating playable characters more than increasing the roster.

 

[soviet prince]

I felt that way after Brawl, but Sakurai and the Smash team are persevering.

If it ever gets to the point where Nintendo has to scrape the barrel for character or gameplay ideas, Sakurai will probably retire from the series. Won't that be a sad day in 2018 when we hear there's a new Smash and our ol' boy isn't behind it?

if ridley and rool not in this it will be a happy day for me.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

They can make room for newcomers if they want. Greninja, Rosalina (maybe), whatever new FE rep they decide on, Pac-man (if he's even in), Lucas, Wolf, Snake, Lucario (maybe) and Rob (very unlikely) won't be in the next smash if they want a lot more newcomers imo. Thats 9 cuts for 9 more newcomer slots + if they decide to add more clones. I'd say those are fair cuts. They don't even need newcomers. They could tear down all the smash bros history and change everyones move set. If they reach a limit then theres a way to keep it fresh still. If the next smash changed the characters to be based off of their spin-offs instead of there main games thats fine by me. (Mario and Luigi RPG tag team character.... Oh My Goodness that would be hype!!)

 

[Overtaken]

I definitely agree that there is already a nearly endless trove of 'fan favorite' characters and variations, but I am concerned about who the next major, iconic, hype-train-fuel character could even be. Melee added more than needs to be said, Brawl had Sonic, Snake, MK, Pkmn Trainer, Smash 4 has Megaman, Little Mac. If Rool, Ridley, Mewtwo AND Pacman all make it in, the next smash is going to be a tough sell it seems. If the next big character to make it in is of no greater importance than Rosalina or Grenina, then there could be problems marketing Smash 5 to the wider fan base.

 

[Networker1]

There are lots of characters from Zelda they could use: Girahim, Demise, Impa, Midna, tingle as well as characters from Zelda U. More of the characters from FE: Chrom, Lyn, Robin, etc. And maybe some of the next-gen's pokemon.

 

[Souless_shadow]

I'm sure that in the gap between Smash 4 and Smash 5 there will be a lot of new characters with smash bros potential. And there are even some existing characters that have potential but may not be in until later installments.

 

[Stompman]

There are still plenty of newcomers, but some peoe would likely be upset because they aren't "all stars" at that point. It would become more nintendo and guest characters and not so much all stars.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

If it goes like other fighters we'll just start alternating playable characters more than increasing the roster.

I'd be okay with this. Or if they released console and handheld versions with different rosters.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well I get the point we loose more popular reps when more and more get added but however as time goes by new guys step inside the ring plus some other not well known characters that could bring hype anyway and lastly some characters getting resurrected in the series and also wtf characters for this case wii fit trainer and possible a rythem heaven character

 

[DakotaBonez]

So many new characters were made between brawl and now, new nintendo ips will keep on comin. And besides, alot of the cast are very obscure, Ice Climbers, Lucas, Mr. Game and Watch. Being obscure doesn't make em a bad character.

 

[Andinus]

I said this before, but I think there probably are plenty of character possibilities after coming to this site, now just because die hard fans think they are important and will respond with buying the game, does not necessarily mean the broader spectrum of potential gamers will. But assuming that they would for a moment, I personally would see the game turn into 2 different series, for instance a handheld version and a console version, each with a 30-50 character rosters, with some character overlap, but also plenty of character exclusives. Any way that is one way of dealing with balancing but still adding new characters.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Personally I'm not too worried because even at the supposed "bottom of the barrel" there's still plenty of interesting and worthy additions. Maybe they won't quite have the pop the big names have but I still consider them worthwhile and with enough love and care could still garner some kind of hype.

I feel at this stage I'd rather they moved towards a single game and released expansions for it, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel every couple of years. I forsee even more brutal cuts in future iterations of Smash Bros unless they adopt an additive approach to the franchise.

The unfortunate reality is that people want newcomers more than anything else and with each new addition to the franchise I can't see them getting away with any less than 10 newcomers each time.

 

[Andinus]

Personally I'm not too worried because even at the supposed "bottom of the barrel" there's still plenty of interesting and worthy additions. Maybe they won't quite have the pop the big names have but I still consider them worthwhile and with enough love and care could still garner some kind of hype.

I feel at this stage I'd rather they moved towards a single game and released expansions for it, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel every couple of years. I forsee even more brutal cuts in future iterations of Smash Bros unless they adopt an additive approach to the franchise.

The unfortunate reality is that people want newcomers more than anything else and with each new addition to the franchise I can't see them getting away with any less than 10 newcomers each time.

Honestly, I'm over wanting lots of new comers, I mean yeah they are fun, but once their novelty wears off what do most people who love to play this game do? Pick one to three favorite characters and stick with them and enjoy the game for what it is all about.. beating the crap out of their friends or people online in a unique fighting game where it seems anything can happen.

I'm honestly just as equally excited to see the updated gameplay, new features, and to see how character's move sets and fighting dynamic has changed for this installment.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Honestly, I'm over wanting lots of new comers, I mean yeah they are fun, but once their novelty wears off what do most people who love to play this game do? Pick one to three favorite characters and stick with them and enjoy the game for what it is all about.. beating the crap out of their friends or people online in a unique fighting game where it seems anything can happen.

I'm honestly just as equally excited to see the updated gameplay, new features, and to see how character's move sets and fighting dynamic has changed for this installment.

I don't see that being the popular opinion though.

 

[Andinus]

I don't see that being the popular opinion though.

I know, but new an shiny will wear off in time, and the people who love this game for what it is all about, will still be playing it till the next one comes out.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Maybe after this game they'll make a smash bros melee remake - think about it. Not even just saying this for competitive players, but it makes sense f they are uncertain about what game they should make next. And it could be a lower price than a full retail game too, sold on Eshop etc.

But this also could work with Smash 64, i just feel melee has established more of the series and has more to offer (more moves for characters, more modes, more characters etc.)

Just a theory. It may happen before they try and take on a new Smash Bros. If they do, they'll need to come up with something unique so adding more fighters doesn't cut it.

 

[Priap0s]

​

Too be completly honest, if we had to start over with Smash, I see these 6 (+3 more, explained further down) characters as the only indespenseble "must have" ones. I do realise that many characters have become fan favourites (to myself and others). But if they where to start over and say: "okey, we are going to scrap everything and build Super Smash Bros from the start". These six (nine) characters, I think are the only ones that are a "must have" to represent Nintendos current and absolute allstars (I might have forgotten someone obvious. Yoshi maybe?).
Ofcourse there are also Franchises that would have to be represented, but not with one special, particular character. Series where characters could be swaped out and/or differ from version to version. Nintendos all star franchises, today, I would say are: Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Pokémon, Fire Emblem, Metroid, Animal Crossing and Mii.
​

​

However, there are some absolute fan favourites I think are to be considered indespensible as well, for the fame and love they have gained through Smash Bros. These being mainly the three seen above. From here they could just go about it like this:​

• Add the nine characters mentioned above.
• Add some old school classic figures to represent Nintendos history.
• Add characters from smaller but steady franchises and/or franchises that used to be very relevant that have fallen off but a descent fan base still exists. (Star Fox is a good example off this.)
• Add a few extra characters for big franchises with many iconic characters.
• Add some new characters from new/current franchises to promote them and give this Smash title a more unique feel that also represent the time it was released in (that would be like, for example, adding Wonder Red this generation).

With those steps , the character roster would be done and none of the characters we have today (apart from the nine mentioned above) would "have to" return from title to title. Thought it would be highly likely a large part of them would considering some franchises lack a variety of iconic characters and so on.​

 

[Andinus]

Maybe after this game they'll make a smash bros melee remake - think about it. Not even just saying this for competitive players, but it makes sense f they are uncertain about what game they should make next. And it could be a lower price than a full retail game too, sold on Eshop etc.

But this also could work with Smash 64, i just feel melee has established more of the series and has more to offer (more moves for characters, more modes, more characters etc.)

Just a theory. It may happen before they try and take on a new Smash Bros. If they do, they'll need to come up with something unique so adding more fighters doesn't cut it.

That sounds like a pretty good idea actually, update the graphics, maybe tweak a few things, and go all out with it online!

 

[abrinx77]

​

Too be completly honest, if we had to start over with Smash, I see these 6 (+3 more, explained further down) characters as the only indespenseble "must have" ones. I do realise that many characters have become fan favourites (to myself and others). But if they where to start over and say: "okey, we are going to scrap everything and build Super Smash Bros from the start". These six (nine) characters, I think are the only ones that are a "must have" to represent Nintendos current and absolute allstars (I might have forgotten someone obvious. Yoshi maybe?).
Ofcourse there are also Franchises that would have to be represented, but not with one special, particular character. Series where characters could be swaped out and/or differ from version to version. Nintendos all star franchises, today, I would say are: Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Pokémon, Fire Emblem, Metroid, Animal Crossing and Mii.
​

​

However, there are some absolute fan favourites I think are to be considered indespensible as well, for the fame and love they have gained through Smash Bros. These being mainly the three seen above. From here they could just go about it like this:​

• Add the nine characters mentioned above.
• Add some old school classic figures to represent Nintendos history.
• Add characters from smaller but steady franchises and/or franchises that used to be very relevant that have fallen off but a descent fan base still exists. (Star Fox is a good example off this.)
• Add a few extra characters for big franchises with iconic characters.
• Add some new characters from new/current franchises to promote them and give this Smash title a more unique feel that also represent the time it was released in (that would be like, for example, adding Wonder Red this generation).

With those steps , the character roster would be done and none of the characters we have today (apart from the nine mentioned above) would "have to" return. Thought it would be highly likely a large part of them would considering some franchises lack a variety of iconic characters and so on.​

This is absolutely perfect for rebuilding the franchise if need be. I agree 100%. Fantastic analysis.

 

[soviet prince]

I dont see how a rebuilt smash would not seem like a downgrade

 

[Hayzie]

It's not the amount of characters that worries me. It's the appeal of it feeling new again. I'm personally fine with a new Smash with once again added content. The case here is such a feature as custom move sets is extreme.

If SSB4 is Better Brawl in HD etc, what will the next installment be? Where do the graphics go? Unfortunately, the bigger the game =/= bigger the roster.

I see something in the future like this: Super Smash Brothers All-Stars. Like Super Mario All-Stars, but combined into full game. Everything in all Smash games makes the cut, with a few additions to the roster and some modes. What else would you ask for, really? You can play this for years to come.

The future of gaming is unpredictable; it could even collapse. I really do think if it's not All-Stars type, Sakurai-san is making SSB4 his last Smash game. Maybe.