See The Difference: Battlefield, Dreamland 64, And Miiverse

[The 0ne]

Because of the inappropriate post that pop up sometimes

Can you still select it for play online if you turn off messages in Internet Options?

 

[Ray-Den]

You're just gonna have to disconnect from your house's Wi-Fi

EDIT: Never mind! Apparently it's in Internet settings.

Internet Settings of the game or the console? I just feel dumb now, i messed already around with all the settings, but the messages are still showing.

 

[The 0ne]

One thing that maybe should be considered is that for characters that can wall jump it's harder on Miiverse because of the thinner main platform. Just a thought. I mean, I play Falco and Doc.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Can you still select it for play online if you turn off messages in Internet Options?

I think the only way to disable the Miiverse posts is if you turn off online. Which at tournament, this means that Miiverse posts will never show up since there's no reason the Wii U should be plugged to the net at a tournament.

You can't play online and turn off online at the same time, so unless there's a way to manually turn the posts off without turning online off that I don't know about, I guess we get to see them while we smash online.

Just saw your post about internet options. You should be able to choose it then.

 

[The 0ne]

Internet Settings of the game or the console? I just feel dumb now, i messed already around with all the settings, but the messages are still showing.

I don't have access to my Wii U right now, but unless I'm mistaken it's the internet settings in the game. You know, where you change your greetings and online taunt messages and the sensitivity of the GamePad microphone for voice chat.

 

[Marigi174]

Uh what? You know Dreamland's blastzones are WAY smaller than Battlefield's right? Battlefield has the highest legal vertical blastzone in the game, even higher than Duck Hunt.

You do reallise that he is referring to Melee dreamland right? Not the Wii-U version.

The blast zones are insanely different in melee to what they are now.

 

[DavemanCozy]

You do reallise that he is referring to Melee dreamland right? Not the Wii-U version.

The blast zones are insanely different in melee to what they are now.

Indigo Jeans was referring to Smash 4 Dreamland:

That isn't the case in Smash 4, where they [Dreamland 64, Battlefield, and Miiverse] are basically identical except for the fact that Dreamland has Wispy Woods.

 

[Ray-Den]

I've turned everything off in the setting and not any of those stopped showing the messages.
So there is really no way to turn messages off (unless you cap your internet connection) and so there is no way to play with it online..
What a dumb decision by Nintendo, i really enjoy listen to the music while fighting

 

[Regi_King]

We were talking about this over at my city.

Battlefield and Miiverse should be treated as FD and Omega forms. Of course, there are different Omegas and Omegas different to FD, but overall, have the same impact that a plain stage sill have. Miiverse and BF have different bottom layouts, but characters that will benefit from the 3 platform layer will still have the advantage in both Miiverse and BF.

I'll also address the "Miiverse is too distracting/I don't have sense of humor" problem. Miiverse won't have messages pop up if the Wii U IS NOT CONNECTED to the internet. And if it is connected, one can still disable messages in internet settings.

The problem here is Dreamland. Dreamland has, in general, the same pros that BF and Miiverse bring to the table, meaning characters that benefit from the BF platforms will still have the advantage on Dreamland too. The problem here is the wind mechanic and the lower ceiling. With this subtle, yet big differences, the TRUE debate here is, how to treat Dreamland, as a starter stage along with BF/Miiverse, FD/Omega, T&C and Smashville without Lylat Cruise to keep on the 5 starters format? Starter pick along with Lylat Cruise, making it a 6 starters format? Treat ir as BF/Miiverse meaning that if one is banned, the 2 others will also be banned? A counterpick stage in which, banning Dreamland and Bf/Miiverse will be the universal ban against "Airbender DK"? Dreamland is the problem here, and that's what we must debate on.

 

[StripedNinja]

The ledges of Omega 75M and Omega Mario Galaxy are much different, would you argue that they should be different stages?


Uh what? You know Dreamland's blastzones are WAY smaller than Battlefield's right? Battlefield has the highest legal vertical blastzone in the game, even higher than Duck Hunt.

No, for the obvious reason that there are way too many omegas to separate them like that. Otherwise yes. For instance, I would treat final destination and omegas different for this reason. It changes the strategy and whether I would ban it so I would absolutely treat these differently.

 

[The Dark Hero 64]

Battlfield is one of the epic stages for epics battle :D (wombo combo
Dreamland is the stage of mémorables fights
Miiverse is a battlefield with a good ambiance and maybe The next battlefield in tournaments
I like all these 3 stages because they bring amazing fights

 

[StripedNinja]

We were talking about this over at my city.

Battlefield and Miiverse should be treated as FD and Omega forms. Of course, there are different Omegas and Omegas different to FD, but overall, have the same impact that a plain stage sill have. Miiverse and BF have different bottom layouts, but characters that will benefit from the 3 platform layer will still have the advantage in both Miiverse and BF.

I'll also address the "Miiverse is too distracting/I don't have sense of humor" problem. Miiverse won't have messages pop up if the Wii U IS NOT CONNECTED to the internet. And if it is connected, one can still disable messages in internet settings.

The problem here is Dreamland. Dreamland has, in general, the same pros that BF and Miiverse bring to the table, meaning characters that benefit from the BF platforms will still have the advantage on Dreamland too. The problem here is the wind mechanic and the lower ceiling. With this subtle, yet big differences, the TRUE debate here is, how to treat Dreamland, as a starter stage along with BF/Miiverse, FD/Omega, T&C and Smashville without Lylat Cruise to keep on the 5 starters format? Starter pick along with Lylat Cruise, making it a 6 starters format? Treat ir as BF/Miiverse meaning that if one is banned, the 2 others will also be banned? A counterpick stage in which, banning Dreamland and Bf/Miiverse will be the universal ban against "Airbender DK"? Dreamland is the problem here, and that's what we must debate on.

Battlefields ledges act very differently from that of the miiverse stage and its platforms are slightly different sizes and its stage shape lends itself differently to different characters, with stuff like going under the stage or specific things like nesses recovery. If we treat omegas and fd differently we should treat battlefield and Miiverse differently

 

[Mr Moosebones]

You do reallise that he is referring to Melee dreamland right? Not the Wii-U version.

The blast zones are insanely different in melee to what they are now.

Should probably try reading what he wrote before you comment

 

[Marigi174]

Should probably try reading what he wrote before you comment

oh lol my bad XD i was going off of ur quoted bit XD

 

[Nintendrone]

Since we treat walled Omegas as the same stage as FD, we should do the same for MV/BF. Walled Omegas have different undersides, different edges, and different traction. MV has a different underside, different edges, and slightly increased length. That is not enough to justify having to strike MV and BF separately.

For DL64, it should be a separate stage from BF. DL64 has a different underside, different edges, decreased length, wind from Whispy Woods, higher platforms, and a lowered blastzone. This was enough to separate it from the BF clones in Melee and is enough to do so in Smash 4.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I think that we may need to rethink how we do bans.

Right now most people do 2 stage bans. However... if someone wants to choose a short ceiling stage (Like me. Cause ZSS + Boost Kick), for most rule sets... that's not preventable. Many rule sets allow Town and City, Halberd, and Delfino Plaza. So, two bans aren't enough.

I see this becoming a similar trifecta. If all these stages are allowed, it will follow the low-ceiling precedence and form a triple platform group of stages (MiiVerse, Dreamland, Battlefield). With three stages in the group, your opponent can't ban them all.

You know what doesn't have this trifecta? High ceiling stages. Commonly legal high ceiling stages aren't really a thing. Kongo Jungle is there... and the first transformation of Castle Siege is good too... until it transforms into one of the shortest stages in the game... whoops.

So, if we legalize both these stages... I think it would follow that the ban system should be revised. And I think at this point there are three directions it can go in:

1. Each person gets 3 bans. This allows them to ban these "trifecta" groups and actually yield them a reasonable use of their bans.

2. Each person gets 2 bans, or one "trifecta" ban. If you care more about specific stages (I ban Lylat and Kongo for their movement and shape), then you can use 2 bans. Alternatively, you can ban the three low ceiling stages or the three triple-platform stages.

3. We remove the ban system. If the other ideas don't work, then we cannot prevent a counterpicking person from choosing a stage that severely changes the match up advantage. If we cannot prevent that... then there is no point, the system just wastes time. Remove it, and reap the faster tournament action.

 

[StripedNinja]

Since we treat walled Omegas as the same stage as FD, we should do the same for MV/BF. Walled Omegas have different undersides, different edges, and different traction. MV has a different underside, different edges, and slightly increased length. That is not enough to justify having to strike MV and BF separately.

For DL64, it should be a separate stage from BF. DL64 has a different underside, different edges, decreased length, wind from Whispy Woods, higher platforms, and a lowered blastzone. This was enough to separate it from the BF clones in Melee and is enough to do so in Smash 4.

I don't think we should treat omegas and fd the same

 

[M@v]

I don't think we should treat omegas and fd the same

The problem with treating them differently is that there are way too many to pick from, and you would either need to ban them all outright (which is usually the other choice by TOs) or open a can of worms by trying to pick individual ones to be legal.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

I think that we may need to rethink how we do bans.

Right now most people do 2 stage bans. However... if someone wants to choose a short ceiling stage (Like me. Cause ZSS + Boost Kick), for most rule sets... that's not preventable. Many rule sets allow Town and City, Halberd, and Delfino Plaza. So, two bans aren't enough.

I see this becoming a similar trifecta. If all these stages are allowed, it will follow the low-ceiling precedence and form a triple platform group of stages (MiiVerse, Dreamland, Battlefield). With three stages in the group, your opponent can't ban them all.

You know what doesn't have this trifecta? High ceiling stages. Commonly legal high ceiling stages aren't really a thing. Kongo Jungle is there... and the first transformation of Castle Siege is good too... until it transforms into one of the shortest stages in the game... whoops.

So, if we legalize both these stages... I think it would follow that the ban system should be revised. And I think at this point there are three directions it can go in:

1. Each person gets 3 bans. This allows them to ban these "trifecta" groups and actually yield them a reasonable use of their bans.

2. Each person gets 2 bans, or one "trifecta" ban. If you care more about specific stages (I ban Lylat and Kongo for their movement and shape), then you can use 2 bans. Alternatively, you can ban the three low ceiling stages or the three triple-platform stages.

3. We remove the ban system. If the other ideas don't work, then we cannot prevent a counterpicking person from choosing a stage that severely changes the match up advantage. If we cannot prevent that... then there is no point, the system just wastes time. Remove it, and reap the faster tournament action.

I like that you're thinking outside the box on this problem.

On paper, your second option appeals to me the most, but I worry it may be confusing amongst the chaos that's typical to match setup, and therefore difficult to implement. I think if we can do this without the 'trifecta' changing at all during counterpicks so there's less variance to keep track of, then there's a chance of this working.

 

[-NV]

someone tell me why miiverse is not selectable when playing with friends online? why not be able to use it? or am i missing somehting

Everyone has to have the dlc
But it could definitely be a glitch

 

[ToonKake]

Dreamland should OBVS be a Stage in Torney Play & Battlefield has BEEN a stage so i dont kno why its on da list lols.

 

[M@v]

Im still not sure about miiverse. Yes its definitely a valid legal stage, but the too similar to bf argument is a valid point. Its two crucial differences however are: 1. Its longer so even though the blast zones are the same from the LEDGE, so a cross stage kill would take longer on mii verse than battlefield. 2. The bottom of miiverse is way different than battlefield. Its more like an omega Pilot wings/wuhu than it is BF, which is actually asymmetrical on the bottom (The right side has those pillars sticking out downwards). That can affect how some characters go underneath the stage on each one (I.E a villager or puff going under, or someone getting stuck on the asymmetrical side of BF, but that's rare).

 

[NGUY (guitarstage)]

i always knew that they were different but that mario on mario action is pretty cool xd

 

[shadee88]

I don't care which but allow battlefield OR miiverse. Allowing two almost identical stages makes counterpicking less meaningful. Playing custom DK and they ban BF? Ok I'll go miiverse.

I like ur rich grow richer spirit.....













































[SARCASM]

 

[StripedNinja]

The problem with treating them differently is that there are way too many to pick from, and you would either need to ban them all outright (which is usually the other choice by TOs) or open a can of worms by trying to pick individual ones to be legal.

What ones wouldnt be legal

 

[HoodsxX]

Have people here not played Smash 64 or something? DL has ALWAYS been a CP. There should be no issue with it being legal or not, that should be an obvious given. Like @ DavemanCozy had said. The Toronto scene, is having BF and MV as identical stages, similar to how FD and Omegas are ruled out. I actually completey vouch for this as the similarities make sense to group them together when it comes to striking stages and doesn't make things complicated. Honestly though, this shouldn't even be an issue and should be resolved via Tournaments, not theory crafting.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I think that we may need to rethink how we do bans.

Right now most people do 2 stage bans. However... if someone wants to choose a short ceiling stage (Like me. Cause ZSS + Boost Kick), for most rule sets... that's not preventable. Many rule sets allow Town and City, Halberd, and Delfino Plaza. So, two bans aren't enough.

I see this becoming a similar trifecta. If all these stages are allowed, it will follow the low-ceiling precedence and form a triple platform group of stages (MiiVerse, Dreamland, Battlefield). With three stages in the group, your opponent can't ban them all.

You know what doesn't have this trifecta? High ceiling stages. Commonly legal high ceiling stages aren't really a thing. Kongo Jungle is there... and the first transformation of Castle Siege is good too... until it transforms into one of the shortest stages in the game... whoops.

So, if we legalize both these stages... I think it would follow that the ban system should be revised. And I think at this point there are three directions it can go in:

1. Each person gets 3 bans. This allows them to ban these "trifecta" groups and actually yield them a reasonable use of their bans.

2. Each person gets 2 bans, or one "trifecta" ban. If you care more about specific stages (I ban Lylat and Kongo for their movement and shape), then you can use 2 bans. Alternatively, you can ban the three low ceiling stages or the three triple-platform stages.

3. We remove the ban system. If the other ideas don't work, then we cannot prevent a counterpicking person from choosing a stage that severely changes the match up advantage. If we cannot prevent that... then there is no point, the system just wastes time. Remove it, and reap the faster tournament action.

Bans aren't there so you can eliminate all good options for your opponent, theyre there so you can eliminate the worst offenders for the specific matchup.

ZSS has a lot of options now but banning stages has never been about "how do I completely neuter my opponent?" It has always been more along the lines of "what can I get rid of to make my life a bit easier?" If you win game 1 your bans alone shouldn't guarantee you a game 2 win.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Bans aren't there so you can eliminate all good options for your opponent, theyre there so you can eliminate the worst offenders for the specific matchup.

ZSS has a lot of options now but banning stages has never been about "how do I completely neuter my opponent?" It has always been more along the lines of "what can I get rid of to make my life a bit easier?" If you win game 1 your bans alone shouldn't guarantee you a game 2 win.

There are two reasons to ban a stage: 1) You don't want to play on it, or 2) You don't want your opponent to play on it. If the opponent is allowed to pick MV after you ban BF, both of these reasons are negated and the ban was wasted. Right now, your only option is to spend both of your bans on nearly identical stages, or don't bother banning either. That's the problem we're trying to solve.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

There are two reasons to ban a stage: 1) You don't want to play on it, or 2) You don't want your opponent to play on it. If the opponent is allowed to pick MV after you ban BF, both of these reasons are negated and the ban was wasted. Right now, your only option is to spend both of your bans on nearly identical stages, or don't bother banning either. That's the problem we're trying to solve.

The problem has already been solved? Both are treated as the same stage. Boom. Done. As early as next weekend I'll be running tournaments with this rule.

That's got nothing to do with what I said or the post I quoted.

People really need to start looking for context clues before they respond.

 

[MegaTuks]

why should dreamland be banned? y mean doesnt the windox thingy changes the way this one is played?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

The problem has already been solved? Both are treated as the same stage. Boom. Done. As early as next weekend I'll be running tournaments with this rule.

That's got nothing to do with what I said or the post I quoted.

People really need to start looking for context clues before they respond.

I was responding to your assertion that bans aren't there to eliminate all good options for an opponent. I was pointing out that not banning both at once allows a workaround that effectively nullifies the ban.

If you're doing the double ban, that's great, but not everyone has agreed to it yet. No need to be snippy towards someone who's actually supporting your point.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I was responding to your assertion that bans aren't there to eliminate all good options for an opponent. I was pointing out that not banning both at once allows a workaround that effectively nullifies the ban.

If you're doing the double ban, that's great, but not everyone has agreed to it yet. No need to be snippy towards someone who's actually supporting your point.

So your way of supporting my point is to quote a post talking about a different topic (ie; that complicated stage bans are dumb and idk why people don't realize MIIVERSE AND BF HAVE HUUUUUUUGE CEILINGS) and challenge what I said? Not being snippy. Getting rustled at the number of people who are responding to stuff I've said with completely out of context rebuttals.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

How about we get back to the topic at hand since neither of us are helping anybody at the moment?

 

[DavemanCozy]

Have people here not played Smash 64 or something? DL has ALWAYS been a CP. There should be no issue with it being legal or not, that should be an obvious given. Like @ DavemanCozy had said. The Toronto scene, is having BF and MV as identical stages, similar to how FD and Omegas are ruled out. I actually completey vouch for this as the similarities make sense to group them together when it comes to striking stages and doesn't make things complicated. Honestly though, this shouldn't even be an issue and should be resolved via Tournaments, not theory crafting.

Dreamland has actually been a starter. But I get what you're saying, no reason to ban a stage that has a minor hazard (wind from Whispy Woods) with an otherwise fair layout.

Whether this stage should be starter or cp this time around, that's up to TOs.

I personally would prefer a Full Stage List Striking system over the starter / cp system we have now, but that's just me

 

[Paxadin]

So Miiverse and BF have the same blastzones, but Miiverse has better ledges. So far Miiverse seems better than BF, but i'm not sure how will people feel about the background messages in tournaments.

Disconnecting the Wii U from the internet should easily do the trick.

 

[Number Three]

I honestly think all three should be legal. Battlefield is already legal, so no questions there. Dreamland is legal in 64, Melee, and Project M. There is no reason it shouldn't be in this. Miiverse is weird. It and Battlefield may have the same blast lines, however, the platforms are bigger, the stage is longer, and the ledges work differently due to different stage structure. I personally think it should be it's own separate legal stage due to these small differences.

 

[Number Three]

To me, dreamland is not the same stage it used to be. The blast line on the top has been lowered to the point where it is impossible to see the top of the tree, which changes the characters who will counterpick it. It is also smaller, and the base is taller. It just doesn't feel the same.

Technically speaking, it is the stage it used to be. It has near identical (I'm personally not sure if they are identical or not but I would guess they are) boundaries to Dream Land in 64. Melee made the side boundaries higher and pushed the upper blast line up to oblivion.

 

[BadDeku]

I don't mean this as an argument, I'm genuinely curious. In Melee, battlefield, yoshi's story, dream land and fountain of dreams are all legal stages despite having a very similar layout to battlefield. Why are all of these stages legal when we're debating about legalizing dreamland and miiverse in smash 4? In melee dreamland is stretched to weird proportions changing the way combos work and the blast zones it looks like, and fountain of dreams has platforms that change throughout, but Yoshi's story looks really similar besides the cloud. I don't play much melee though so there is probably a few things i don't know. Also I think the shape of the base platform of miiverse is SUPERIOR to battlefield personally.

 

[Liggli]

Because of the inappropriate post that pop up sometimes

This is just silly; don't get why people are buying this.

Regardless of whether you're playing online or locally - you're going to see the same messages.....

 

[AcePikachu]

I think dreamland is different enough to be a counter pick and battlefield a starter. Dreamland has a shorter ceiling, higher platforms (smaller too), and has wispy. It also gives ledge cancelers more options.

However Miiverse barely has any big differences, there's no point to it. Only big thing is that you can go under the stage easier. I think if you ban battlefield, you ban Miiverse as well.