Securing KOs with Falco

[theONEjanitor]

So, like a lot of you I think Falco is pretty underrated, but one thing I feel that Falco struggles with is securing KOs at reasonable percentages. We have moves that kill early, like f-smash and b-air, and we also have, in my opinion, an above average edgeguarding game, but implementing and finding set ups for these moves is easier said and done.
As Falco I get 90% of my kills from reads and punishes, but against good players (or really safe characters) that alone won't cut it. I think we need to develop some reliable set ups for KOs. At KO percents, our throws send the opponent too far for us to do anything useful (esp when we have rage), and falco's terrible air speed makes it hard to chase people in the air, despite his great jump height. Few things are going to be guaranteed (although some are, like falling upair to upair/bair), but if you have any ideas I'd love to hear them.
Personally I think mastering the edgeguarding game might be the key, but I'd love to hear any other thoughts.

 

[SoulSilv3r]

Actually, if you focus on keeping your opponents in the air, they're basically helpless, especially if they're a floaty character like Jiggs or Rosalina. However, you are right. Edgeguarding is one vital thing to master when playing falco. Personally, I like to f-air, then jump and f-air again, and most of the time, characters without a overpowered recovery(COUGH VILLAGER) will be KO'd. A useful way to keep opponents in the air is Falco's up-throw. This throw is great for comboing into a n-air or up-air, but you can also mix it up with a well placed b-air. Another thing that so many people overlook is one of the best defensive tools in the entire series: His blaster. Now I know, its kind of garbage when side to side with the previous games, but its still a great edgeguarding tool. I gimp people 24/7 with it. Overall, Falco is misunderstood. Protip: Shorthop b-air is really good.

3DS FC: 4012-5413-7708

Oh, and don't even get me started on Fox in this game. I could chat about his dominance on battlefield for days...

 

[~Daniee]

Falco can jab cancel on a ledge or platform as seen here: https://youtu.be/G6X759rIxBU?t=9m5s into some of his aerials, like n-air and maybe f-air. n-air can kill at higher percents, but if you can land the rapid jab while on the ledge you can kill any characters with poor recoveries at low percents, and kill any character from the knockback alone at higher percents. Its not super reliable, but it gets the job done.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Falco really doesn't have any guaranteed setups that kill.

He has plenty options on finishing the job, but the opportunity has to show itself, Falco can't create them. I think this is the reason most people call Falco "the most honest". From the beginning, he didn't have anything that made him stick out as a strong addition to the roster, except his broken fair that got patched long ago...
Now he's got a stronger air game with his nair and fair being fixed (which could be called a gimmick). The problem is offensively, chasing in the air is pretty hard against someone who doesn't take the bait often, and most characters that have the simple "sex-kick" nair that comes out fairly quickly and interrupt most attempts at follow-ups unless you anticipate it. On top of that, most of his attacks just send the opponent too far for Falco to get close an actually make a strong connection at kill percent.
It really is a bummer

 

[theONEjanitor]

Falco can jab cancel on a ledge or platform as seen here: https://youtu.be/G6X759rIxBU?t=9m5s into some of his aerials, like n-air and maybe f-air. n-air can kill at higher percents, but if you can land the rapid jab while on the ledge you can kill any characters with poor recoveries at low percents, and kill any character from the knockback alone at higher percents. Its not super reliable, but it gets the job done.

im familiar with this, but this almost never KOs anybody except at super high percentages or with terrible DI
although I usually cancel it into nair cuz it's easier. maybe cancelling it into fair can be more reliable for KOs

 

[SoulSilv3r]

im familiar with this, but this almost never KOs anybody except at super high percentages or with terrible DI
although I usually cancel it into nair cuz it's easier. maybe cancelling it into fair can be more reliable for KOs

It is. N-air is just good for comboing. F-air is purely a kill/edgeguard move. Like I said earlier, keeping opponents in the air and juggling them into madness is highly effective. This can put them at kill percents, which is when you lure them to the ledge and edgeguard with the f-air.

 

[Ffamran]

It is. N-air is just good for comboing. F-air is purely a kill/edgeguard move. Like I said earlier, keeping opponents in the air and juggling them into madness is highly effective. This can put them at kill percents, which is when you lure them to the ledge and edgeguard with the f-air.

Both Nair and Fair are good for edgeguarding and comboing, but Nair excels more for comboing because of its faster startup of 3 to Fair's 10 and on-stage because of its much lower landing lag of 15 to Fair's 25. Even without a landing hit, just having lower landing lag is easier to rely on. Without a landing hit, fast fall Nair can drag people down and lead into setups which the game tells you: "Standard Air Attack – If you land just before the final attack in Falco's midair combo, you can move straight into a standard combo on the ground." I don't know when you're supposed to land since I've seen Japanese Falco players immediately connect jab instead of dealing with landing lag and then attacking. Fair excels off-stage because of the lack of a ground to land on and it's slightly disjointed meaning Falco has more range to catch someone off-stage. A "flatter" hitbox because of how Fair works also helps Falco sneak in Fair. Also, Nair does have a slight edge where you can ledge cancel rapid jab into Nair.

 

[SoulSilv3r]

Both Nair and Fair are good for edgeguarding and comboing, but Nair excels more for comboing because of its faster startup of 3 to Fair's 10 and on-stage because of its much lower landing lag of 15 to Fair's 25. Even without a landing hit, just having lower landing lag is easier to rely on. Without a landing hit, fast fall Nair can drag people down and lead into setups which the game tells you: "Standard Air Attack – If you land just before the final attack in Falco's midair combo, you can move straight into a standard combo on the ground." I don't know when you're supposed to land since I've seen Japanese Falco players immediately connect jab instead of dealing with landing lag and then attacking. Fair excels off-stage because of the lack of a ground to land on and it's slightly disjointed meaning Falco has more range to catch someone off-stage. A "flatter" hitbox because of how Fair works also helps Falco sneak in Fair. Also, Nair does have a slight edge where you can ledge cancel rapid jab into Nair.

Well said.

 

[~Daniee]

Falco can frame cancel his d-air, as seen here. This opens up a tonne of follow ups for Falco. towards the end of the video Falco's kill setups with this are shown off. To name a couple there's:
D-air to f-smash and D-air to d-air. Of course, those are not all the setups shown off.
All d-airs are frame cancelled by the way.

 

[PMMikey]

Hmm I'm not sure if you can still pull it off, but a few updates ago I fought a Falco that jab jab D-tilt at high percents can kill. I've done it before I could be character dependent but I mean it's something to keep in mind.

 

[SoulSilv3r]

Falco can frame cancel his d-air, as seen here. This opens up a tonne of follow ups for Falco. towards the end of the video Falco's kill setups with this are shown off. To name a couple there's:
D-air to f-smash and D-air to d-air. Of course, those are not all the setups shown off.
All d-airs are frame cancelled by the way.

But doesn't d-air launch characters upward, leaving them out of range for other attacks that aren't up-air or f-air? Whenever I frame cancel d-air, it doesn't really make it a good combo. Its down to personal preference, I guess.

 

[~Daniee]

But doesn't d-air launch characters upward, leaving them out of range for other attacks that aren't up-air or f-air? Whenever I frame cancel d-air, it doesn't really make it a good combo. Its down to personal preference, I guess.

the launch power of d-air may have been buffed, I'm not sure, but the video shows that Falco can true combo frame cancelled d-air into various aerials and f-smash. It may also be DI dependent.

 

[theONEjanitor]

yeah I need to practice cancel dair, i never quite mastered it. anyone have any specific tips on it?

 

[SoulSilv3r]

yeah I need to practice cancel d-air, i never quite mastered it. anyone have any specific tips on it?

Do it on Wii U, not 3ds. Because of the absence of a c-stick, you can't frame cancel Falco's d-air. I'd just watch the video and practice at the same time, or just try other combo's.

 

[Snipnigth]

I feel mastering d-air cancel wont improve your game that much, i mean, its unsafe on shield and easy to miss the timing on a real match, its also a slow start up move so your enemy can see it coming from miles away, although you can use normal dair to comeback on stage, if you do it rigth youll have no landinglagg and will be able to combo into upsmash or bair. A much better kill setup to master is falling upair, has less lag than dair and comes out faster, can combo into bair, uair, fair and kill on the rigth %, also phantasma can set for really nice killswith bair and upair and its fairly safe if you measure it well and dont spam it...

 

[Wyles]

When theyre recovering i believe nair is superior for higher recoveries while fair is for lower recoveries. However each could work. Bair is also really good. Sometimes i like to tomahawk spot dodge and down smash. But i get 80% of my KO's from bair.

 

[Ffamran]

But doesn't d-air launch characters upward, leaving them out of range for other attacks that aren't up-air or f-air? Whenever I frame cancel d-air, it doesn't really make it a good combo. Its down to personal preference, I guess.

Patch 1.0.8 changed it: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-patch-history.375247/. Well, they either added another hitbox or a property on Dair so it functions like his Falco Phantasm where if you hit someone in the air, it spikes, but if you hit someone on the ground, it launches them up. Exact angles being 280 on airborne opponents and 80 on grounded opponents for Dair's clean hit; late hit still sends people at a 361 aka "Sakurai" angle which just means that at low percents, it'll send people horizontally like if you pushed them and at high percents, they'll be sent diagonally. Theoretically, Falco could start vertical combos using Dair if he hits people on the ground, but once he hits them in the air, they're free to tech. I say theoretically since it's still a frame 16 move unlike Luigi's frame 10 Dair or Ryu's frame 8 Dair. Granted, those have much less active frames for both their clean and late hits. At the same time, would you give up the ability to spike (and probably power for balancing reasons) for a frame 5 or 10 Dair that sets up vertical air combos and would pretty much be the only Dair to strictly kill off the top? Some people might say no since a Dair that can't spike is like losing a part of what makes Falco Falco even if it's currently a very situational move.

Also, more information and a more relevant place thread on frame syncing Dair here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-dair-cancel.386634/. I say frame sync since you can land Nair, Fair, and Dair without any landing lag which other characters can do too and there was a study of it in the Mechanics and Techniques thread in the competitive boards.

 

[SoulSilv3r]

Patch 1.0.8 changed it: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-patch-history.375247/. Well, they either added another hitbox or a property on Dair so it functions like his Falco Phantasm where if you hit someone in the air, it spikes, but if you hit someone on the ground, it launches them up. Exact angles being 280 on airborne opponents and 80 on grounded opponents for Dair's clean hit; late hit still sends people at a 361 aka "Sakurai" angle which just means that at low percents, it'll send people horizontally like if you pushed them and at high percents, they'll be sent diagonally. Theoretically, Falco could start vertical combos using Dair if he hits people on the ground, but once he hits them in the air, they're free to tech. I say theoretically since it's still a frame 16 move unlike Luigi's frame 10 Dair or Ryu's frame 8 Dair. Granted, those have much less active frames for both their clean and late hits. At the same time, would you give up the ability to spike (and probably power for balancing reasons) for a frame 5 or 10 Dair that sets up vertical air combos and would pretty much be the only Dair to strictly kill off the top? Some people might say no since a Dair that can't spike is like losing a part of what makes Falco Falco even if it's currently a very situational move.

Also, more information and a more relevant place thread on frame syncing Dair here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-dair-cancel.386634/. I say frame sync since you can land Nair, Fair, and Dair without any landing lag which other characters can do too and there was a study of it in the Mechanics and Techniques thread in the competitive boards.

I kinda find d-air to be really inconsistent. For instance, sometimes I can frame cancel it perfectly, sometimes I fail, but still get a combo. I just stick to juggling or forcing opponents off the ledge. Although, it is a good way to spike people. To be honest, I only care about speed when it comes to Fox. When I play Falco, I just make sure my opponent cant touch the ground.