Samus Stage Discussion - Final Destination

[Afro Smash]

Wanted to get some discussion going on the pros and cons of all legal stages for Samus, as I'm not exactly versed in many of the counterpicks such as Delfino and am curious if there's any benefits im overlooking of the more standard stages.

I think focussing on one stage a week would be best to get all the info we need, so week 1 we're gonna take a look at Battlefield! I'll update the OP over time with info we have a consensus on.

Battlefield:

Pros:

• Up B whiffs and hits are made a lot safer by being able to mix up landing on the platforms and dropping through.
• Up Air juggles and combos become a lot more prominent with help of platforms
• Samus' usual issue with landing somewhat alleviated by platforms
• Up Tilt and Up Smash make for great pressure against enemies on platforms
• Up Air and Up B also makes for great pressure Vs enemies on the top platform, basically guaranteed to cause enough Shield damage for a poke or break
• Can beat most attempted Shield pressure aimed at herself whilst on platforms with Up B OoS
• Projectile pressure can force people up on to platforms where we're free to poke at them with Zair and Up Tilts
• Full Jump Fair auto cancels on to the platforms, allowing for BF specific combos
• We have a 0-Death here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkPA-dLqztc

Cons:

• Platforms can often block Zair and sometimes block Missiles and Charge Shot
• Platforms can benefit other characters more than they benefit Samus such as ZSS and Falcon

Final Destination:

 

[RoachCake]

Battlefield is definitely one of Samus' best stages, I think everyone can agree.
It's one of my favorites, and I will take everyone here(Except Diddy, Fox, and Marth).

(Pros)
U-air combos/strings are longer with the help of the platforms and can even result in a 0-death if pulled off correctly at low %s.
Screw attack will also kill earlier if you catch someone with it while on a platform.
This place is also Jab Lock Heaven, get your opponent used to accepting the U-airs out of your D-throws underneath the platforms and you can net easy % with a D-air Jab Lock mixup at starting %, or punish a shield drop with Bomb or B-air to set one up.
Missiles are pretty useful here for things other than forcing a shield or getting a little bits of damage, you can use them to get your opponent to jump onto a platform where you can easily pressure with U-airs, especially if they shield.
U-tilt and U-smash are much more useful here too since they can hit from underneath the platforms.
The top platform is a really bad spot for a lot of characters if you catch them shielding, you can either pressure safely with U-airs, go for a shield break/poke with Screw Attack, or bait/wait for, and punish a shield drop. Shielding on the top platform may as well be a death sentence at high %. Jumping OoS is probably the opponent's best option.
The platforms also make it MUCH easier to land when getting juggled.

(Cons)
Depending on the MU (Falcon, ZSS), your opponent can take advantage of the platforms just as much as we can, if not more, which can make the MU harder.
High-ish ceiling, sometimes making it harder to kill with U-air or Screw Attack.
Z-air is blocked by platforms occasionally, getting you punished. CS and Missiles, can also be eaten by the platforms(Rare).


There's probably more pros and cons, this is just what I could think of off the top of my head.

 

[Xygonn]

Battlefield is definitely one of Samus' best stages, I think everyone can agree.
It's one of my favorites, and I will take everyone here(Except Diddy, Fox, and Marth).

(Pros)
U-air combos/strings are longer with the help of the platforms and can even result in a 0-death if pulled off correctly at low %s.
Screw attack will also kill earlier if you catch someone with it while on a platform.
This place is also Jab Lock Heaven, get your opponent used to accepting the U-airs out of your D-throws underneath the platforms and you can net easy % with a D-air Jab Lock mixup at starting %, or punish a shield drop with Bomb or B-air to set one up.
Missiles are pretty useful here for things other than forcing a shield or getting a little bits of damage, you can use them to get your opponent to jump onto a platform where you can easily pressure with U-airs, especially if they shield.
U-tilt and U-smash are much more useful here too since they can hit from underneath the platforms.
The top platform is a really bad spot for a lot of characters if you catch them shielding, you can either pressure safely with U-airs, go for a shield break/poke with Screw Attack, or bait/wait for, and punish a shield drop. Shielding on the top platform may as well be a death sentence at high %. Jumping OoS is probably the opponent's best option.
The platforms also make it MUCH easier to land when getting juggled.

(Cons)
Depending on the MU (Falcon, ZSS), your opponent can take advantage of the platforms just as much as we can, if not more, which can make the MU harder.
High-ish ceiling, sometimes making it harder to kill with U-air or Screw Attack.
Z-air is blocked by platforms occasionally, getting you punished. CS and Missiles, can also be eaten by the platforms(Rare).


There's probably more pros and cons, this is just what I could think of off the top of my head.

Man, the first time a platform ate my CS.... I was upset.

 

[Fluidityt]

I actually ban this map for a lot of MU. Getting stuck on a platform seriously screws me over. I'm a scrub though.

 

[KayJay]

Battlefield is the only stage where I can win the neutral against a Mr. R. quality Sheik. I think it's because the plattforms defend us from full jump F-Airs and Samus's U-Tilt below a plattform with a dropped bomb as a cover against approaches is pretty effective.

 

[Afro Smash]

Time for a new stage, this week, Final Destination. You can also discuss any Omega stages that might be more beneficial to Samus than FD

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Samus should go to a grassy omega since she gets nothing out of running up smash, Jump cancelled specials or pivot dashing. The remaining choices can be chosen depending on if you want your opponent to be able to Wall Jump/Stick (and if they're able to).

Wall Jump and Sticking: Yoshi's Island (my recommendation ;>), Mushroom Kingdom U and Windy Hill Zone
No Wall Stick but Wall Jump: Great Cave Offense (this is only half grass note that)
Neither one: Mario Galaxy


FD is a fairly basic stage. If you're opponent is good on FD or bad on platforms you probably shouldn't take them here. If they aren't good on it you can take advantage of CG landing traps by going here which is very nice.

 

[Xygonn]

I guess I'll have to hit the lab. A list of omega stages where Zair passes through the bottom is probably necessary.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

The funny thing about Samus's advantages on FD is that everything I can think of involves the ledges I would say that a flat stage is an advantage other than the fact that fast runners really show that it's really more of a weakness. My focus on FD really is all about getting my opponent to the ledge. I don't care about damage accumulation at all. I don't care of I'm at 150%, if I can get them off the stage, I can end their stock.

 

[RoachCake]

I'ma revive this thread.

FD is pretty good, but I'd prefer going to T&C if possible.

(Pros)
Missiles are a bit more useful here since there's no platforms that enemies can use to easily avoid them, making them a bit better for onstage frame traps(As long as you've already gotten them in the air).
Z-air I think is best here as well.
Although it may just be me, I'd say we've got the upper hand against the FE gang + Link (Not Toon Link) here.

(Cons)
Our problem with landing really shows here since there're no platforms, our only options are either going to ledge or using bombs. (Fastfall U-air if you're feeling lucky)
Not the best choice when fighting against Fox or Sheik (Even though I still think it's very much possible to beat Sheik here, T&C and Lylat I think are better stages for fighting her.).

Overall there's not really much to say about FD since it's just a flat stage with no platforms or hazards or anything.
Also I think going to an Omega with walls against characters that cannot wall jump/wall cling is good way to make our recovery even better while also giving us a few extra options on the ledge while they don't get anything.

 

[Xeze]

Final Destination allows Samus to hit missiles more reliably and punish landings with Charge Shot. However this also reduces her own landing options. Plus platforms help Samus to extend her u-air strings as well as catching people with up-B from below.

So it's not too bad but I prefer a stage with platforms whenever possible.

 

[Afro Smash]

Ye sorry I abandoned this, I'll post a new stage tonight or tomorrow

 

[Xygonn]

Vs the following characters FD is a plus (IMO) because we can keep them at a distance via movement alone making our zoning tools particularly more useful. This is for a defensive play style.

Villager (expect match to go to time)
Falco
Link
Charizard
Olimar (match may go to time)
Kirby
Ganon
Luigi
Dedede

Against villager, I recommend Luigi's mansion since it gives you a nook to recover up with inside of bowling ball range. Against everyone else I prefer flat sides to improve the wall hop game.

 

[Xeze]

Against villager, I recommend Luigi's mansion since it gives you a nook to recover up with inside of bowling ball range. Against everyone else I prefer flat sides to improve the wall hop game.

I don't recall Luigi's Mansion being legal in any ruleset I've come across so far.

 

[Xygonn]

I don't recall Luigi's Mansion being legal in any ruleset I've come across so far.

Omega Luigi's or are the Omega stages super limited?

 

[Xeze]

Oh you were referring to Omega Luigi's Mansion. My b.

 

[Xygonn]

Oh you were referring to Omega Luigi's Mansion. My b.

Looking around a rule sets, it actually does appear that a lot of them ban Omega stages.

 

[Xeze]

Looking around a rule sets, it actually does appear that a lot of them ban Omega stages.

That's probably due music copyright in some of the omega stages. EVO comes to mind.