Samus should not have high heels

[Electric-Gecko]

When she was revealed with high-heels in Super Smash Bros 4, it was unexpected. It also felt unfit for the character, and her role as a bounty hunter. Super Smash Bros normally (tries to) take character designs from existing games, so it's also strange given that these heels were never in a Metroid game (though she had slightly-lower high-heels in Other M, but that game is not well-liked). Here is the evidence I have that others do not like the high heels they gave her in Smash 4:

• Complex: Not Your Bae: Why Putting High Heels on Samus Aran is Still a Terrible Idea
• Zero Suit Samus’ Heels: Why it’s a Big Deal and Why You Should Care
• Metro: Samus Aran: The Fall of an Icon – Reader’s Feature
• Ninendo Life: Talking Point: A History of the Sexualisation of Samus
• Kotaku: Samus' New High Heels Are, Well... (This is a mockery, not a complaint)

I'm curious about Japanese reception. But I'm not fluent in Japanese, so I don't know how to search.

Bayonetta is different, as that's part of her style. But the heels are a bad design choice for Samus. I'm surprised they kept them after the response they got last time, but I think they should get rid of them.

Interestingly, here's some concept art from Metroid: Zero Mission, with translated notes. Notice the note on heel-height at the bottom-right?

I know they would have to rework her animations if they removed the heels, but I think it's worth it, especially given the redesigns other characters are getting. They should be able to make moves with equivalent functionality without them, though I wouldn't mind if she was functionally altered though.

 

[IsmaR]

This thread/topic gets heated every time it is made, so I'll be watching it closely.

Zero Suit as she exists now would not work without the heels. Regardless of design preference, her gameplay (primarily her recovery and forward smash) would not be able to exist/would have no explanation (the Brawl tether recovery while functional in its own way, would not have held up in Smash 4's kit, IMO).

The rocket heels are specific to Smash only, and I understand why people would get upset over the design choice from the aesthetic viewpoint. However I see them as a non-canon interpretation of various power ups (namely the Space Jump boots going off of the item icon), and an attempt to keep the "illusion" that Samus would be at a disadvantage fighting without her suit unless she had some outside equipment to help her keep up (obviously this is subjective, as many view her as objectively better than regular Power Suit Samus in every game that both appear separate in, but I digress as it is the path that the Smash design team has taken).

As for heels in general, they have been integrated into the official design even outside of Other M. Both the Zero Suit in Samus Returns and even her power suit itself is shown having higher heels in the "shoes/boots" in official artwork (possibly to be more in line for designs for a future title, hard to say for sure until we see Metroid Prime 4) than previous power suit designs. Again, I don't see it as a necessarily bad thing (Samus is not anymore sexualized that she has been since her inception, but that's just my perspective) so much as it just is different than what people are setting up their expectations to be. I think them toning down Zero Suit Samus for Ultimate (or toning up depending on your perspective) is at least a start, and they might eventually listen to feedback for a title where they do more drastic overhauls on the cast (assuming they rework everything from the ground up instead of using Smash 4 as a base). Have to wait and see for future designs.

 

[Electric-Gecko]

This thread/topic gets heated every time it is made,

Thank you. I wasn't aware. But you must mean for Smash 4, right? I started this topic because I haven't seen anyone mention it for Smash Ultimate.

Zero Suit as she exists now would not work without the heels. Regardless of design preference, her gameplay (primarily her recovery and forward smash) would not be able to exist/would have no explanation

What if they replaced them with actual boots, or even shoes? I would prefer that.

As for heels in general, they have been integrated into the official design even outside of Other M. Both the Zero Suit in Samus Returns and even her power suit itself is shown having higher heels in the "shoes/boots" in official artwork (possibly to be more in line for designs for a future title, hard to say for sure until we see Metroid Prime 4) than previous power suit designs.

I didn't know they were also in Samus Returns. Sakamoto has gradually brought Samus in this direction over time, but I don't like it. I won't question how they fit into her power suit, given she can shift into the morph ball. But those ones appear to be part of the suit, while the ones in Smash look like they're worn on-top.

... Samus is not anymore sexualized that she has been since her inception, but that's just my perspective.

I don't think those reveals at the endings of early Metroid's are equivalent to the way she's been sexualized more recently. In those, they're showing her wearing something that a real woman would likely wear at some point, and isn't such an improbable thing for her to wear under her suit. In addition, this was just for a small scene in each game which many players likely didn't discover (though I don't know how many did).

But in the case of the high-heels, they're showing us what she wears to do her missions. This is what doesn't make sense.

 

[IsmaR]

Thank you. I wasn't aware. But you must mean for Smash 4, right? I started this topic because I haven't seen anyone mention it for Smash Ultimate.

Yes, I was speaking historically across both the Smash for 3DS/Wii U section and other threads that bring it up here in the Ultimate section.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the topic, just figure I'd point out that it's been an issue in the past, so I will keep a close eye.

What if they replaced them with actual boots, or even shoes? I would prefer that.

I would definitely prefer something like the actual boots for the Power Suit itself materializing, though shoes would work for me as well.

I didn't know they were also in Samus Returns. Sakamoto has gradually brought Samus in this direction over time, but I don't like it. I won't question how they fit into her power suit, given she can shift into the morph ball. But those ones appear to be part of the suit, while the ones in Smash look like they're worn on-top.

I just saw it as a "we're not really seeing it as a problem, designs evolve over time/etc." case. Obviously I prefer classic depictions of the suit as well (namely the Prime series Power Suit), but Samus Returns at least sold me on the idea of a more exaggerated/bulky suit with things like the sleeker visor design, bigger/more detailed shoulder pads and arm cannon (I'll give it that from an angle where you can see her arm itself/proportioned to the gun, it sells the idea of powered armor to me, hence why I can overlook the "shoes" being more raised than usual). I'd be okay with this going forward for stuff like melee-focused combat outside of Prime 4.

I don't think those reveals at the endings of early Metroid's are equivalent to the way she's been sexualized more recently. In those, they're showing her wearing something that a real woman would likely wear at some point, and isn't such an improbable thing for her to wear under her suit. In addition, this was just for a small scene in each game which many players likely didn't discover (though I don't know how many did).

I would argue even outside of endings, you still had things like the game over/death animation showing Samus underneath the suit playing a big part.

But in the case of the high-heels, they're showing us what she wears to do her missions. This is what doesn't make sense.

I'll admit your first point from the other post about it fitting a character like Bayonetta much more does hold weight.

Given it was Team Ninja that helped with Other M, I saw the direction of the game as more of trying to make Metroid over the top action than previously (hence why Samus had things like finishers, the sense move/dodge maneuver, etc.). Which I think Smash specifically picked up on, and tried to take to the logical extreme (when you have characters like Sheik to be drawn as a comparison to, I see it making a lot more sense). As a whole trope, I view combat heels as a cheesy attempt to get away with being even more over the top (with prime example being Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 4/Rising Revengeance) than trying to be an actual sexualization thing. If there was no "rocket" part of the heels, I feel like it'd be justified, but again I view it as they're trying to go with the goofy sci-fi angle that's tongue in cheek rather than anything to be taken seriously (if anything I view the series as a whole is going in that direction more now than ever, especially with the addition of and return of ).

All of this is just my take on it, so I admit I could be wrong on all accounts/it's just as dumb as it actually seems. But as I've stated, I've never seen a reason to get particular upset over it when it's already at most an interpretation/non-canon look at how Metroid "works" as a series in a fighting game (I already have plenty to disagree in other aspects, but that's for another thread). So long as Samus doesn't become a literal ditz/damsel in distress again (the gif in my sig being my hope that Nintendo still knows how to not mess up as badly as Other M ever again) that wouldn't even justify the "fanservice" anymore at that point, I'll make peace with the questionable attire/fiction being fiction.

 

[meleebrawler]

Didn't Japan's Super Metroid take things even further by having Samus be completely naked on death?

 

[IsmaR]

I think that may have been removed from an alpha build, but I recall it being mentioned in an interview before.

 

[Idon]

I think it
1. Is really dumb looking
2. Is completely made up fan-fic
3. Goes against everything ZSS is supposed to be
4. Perpetuates this stupid Smash tradition that the POWER SUIT, the source of all her superhuman abilities and weaponry, for some reason weighs her down, slows her, reduces her power, overall just straight nerfs her.

As for the sexualization stuff, I am neither inclined to nor qualified to talk about that.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm got a weird combination of not really caring, but at the same time being annoyed by the people angry about her having high heels.

 

[meleebrawler]

I think it
1. Is really dumb looking
2. Is completely made up fan-fic
3. Goes against everything ZSS is supposed to be
4. Perpetuates this stupid Smash tradition that the POWER SUIT, the source of all her superhuman abilities and weaponry, for some reason weighs her down, slows her, reduces her power, overall just straight nerfs her.

As for the sexualization stuff, I am neither inclined to nor qualified to talk about that.

If you think Smash accurately represents anyone's power, you're sorely mistaken. Anyone weak gets brought up and anyone super-powerful gets brought down in the name of fun game balance. Besides, I'm pretty certain casual free-for all players consider normal Samus stronger for her ability to damage and KO from far away.

There's no grand conspiracy or injustice in ZSS being better in 1v1s, it's just how it's always been for the archetype she happens to be.

The boots, while cool-looking, don't really complement her appearance if you ask me, and are worn solely for function. They're not even thin and prone to snapping like regular heels.

 

[NintenRob]

I don't have a problem with jet boots, to be they took something a bit dumb from Other M and turned it into something a bit more practical to boost her offensive power and general mobility. The "heel" is just where the jet funnel thing is.

 

[Idon]

If you think Smash accurately represents anyone's power, you're sorely mistaken. Anyone weak gets brought up and anyone super-powerful gets brought down in the name of fun game balance. Besides, I'm pretty certain casual free-for all players consider normal Samus stronger for her ability to damage and KO from far away.

There's no grand conspiracy or injustice in ZSS being better in 1v1s, it's just how it's always been for the archetype she happens to be.

The boots, while cool-looking, don't really complement her appearance if you ask me, and are worn solely for function. They're not even thin and prone to snapping like regular heels.

I obviously don't expect 1:1 canon.
However, I think adding completely made-up boots and making it consist of her entire moveset was a stupid design decision.

They could very easily have just done every animation sans the upB without the boots.

 

[David Viran]

I obviously don't expect 1:1 canon.
However, I think adding completely made-up boots and making it consist of her entire moveset was a stupid design decision.

They could very easily have just done every animation sans the upB without the boots.

They did in brawl when they made up the whip and 90% of her moveset in the first place. Of course they had too because of zss's lack of source material to create one and this wasn't the first time.

While the jet boots are not canon, they could have some merit in her universe. In her universe they made It clear that unless you are born a giant powerful purple dragon then you need some help from technology to keep up. Samus can't kill a single space pirate 1 on 1 without her suit let alone ridley. It would probably be a good idea to have something other than a non lethal pistol, that can only stun for a short time, if something happens to the power armor and she needs to get the hell out of there or needs to deal some kinda damage.

 

[Electric-Gecko]

The Brawl tether recovery while functional in its own way, would not have held up in Smash 4's kit, IMO).

I must ask; what does "kit" mean in this context? Game engine?

Personally, I think I would prefer her up-special in Ultimate to be based-on the one in Brawl, but I would make some changes to it. Here's how I would implement it:
Firstly, it would be fired 60° upward but then swung directly above for a higher chance of hitting. If it hits someone, then it would pull Samus and the victim towards each other (or Samus towards the victim if the victim is on a platform) and Samus would kick the victim. Of course, it would also grab onto ledges for recovery.

I just saw it as a "we're not really seeing it as a problem, designs evolve over time/etc." case. Obviously I prefer classic depictions of the suit as well (namely the Prime series Power Suit)...

What I meant is that Yoshio Sakamoto has increasingly sexualized Samus over time since becoming director of Super Metroid, and put more emphasis on her being female. I find this ironic, given that she was originally designed to appear in a bulky androgynous-looking suit, and you didn't even know she was female until the end of the first game.
This article (as linked above) and this one (which I didn't link before due to not mentioning Smash) blame the Zero-suit for starting a trend of increased sexualization.

Personally, I don't find anything that happened in Metroid Zero Mission (which introduced the zero-suit) innapropriate. Despite the flack given by those writers, I accept the zero-suit as part of Metroid cannon. But I don't like the further sexualization of Samus that happened after Zero Mission. In that game, she only used the Zero-suit in a mission because she lost the Power suit, and they stated that it is not meant for combat.

if anything I view the series as a whole is going in that direction more now than ever, especially with the addition of and return of .

In my opinion, Super Smash Bros should not make the characters appearance too goofy in comparison to the games they're from. In fact, I like it that some Smash games (especially Brawl) gave the cartoony characters a grittier appearance. Metroid is not a goofy franchise, so they shouldn't make Samus's appearance that goofy. I think it's fine for them to behave more goofy than they do in their source material.

The boots, while cool-looking, don't really complement her appearance if you ask me, and are worn solely for function. They're not even thin and prone to snapping like regular heels.

You must be kidding. They are clearly designed just to look like high heels. They do not even look like rocket boots.

 

[meleebrawler]

I must ask; what does "kit" mean in this context? Game engine?

Personally, I think I would prefer her up-special in Ultimate to be based-on the one in Brawl, but I would make some changes to it. Here's how I would implement it:
Firstly, it would be fired 60° upward but then swung directly above for a higher chance of hitting. If it hits someone, then it would pull Samus and the victim towards each other (or Samus towards the victim if the victim is on a platform) and Samus would kick the victim (maybe this would require hitting the attack button). It's stun duration would be significantly weaker than in Brawl. Of course, it would also grab onto ledges for recovery. Maybe it should also pull her upwards when it hits a semisoft platform directly above, but that might be too much of a dirty move, as I'm not aware of other characters with moves like that.


What I meant is that Yoshio Sakamoto has increasingly sexualized Samus over time since becoming director of Super Metroid, and put more emphasis on her being female. I find this ironic, given that she was originally designed to appear in a bulky androgynous-looking suit, and you didn't even know she was female until the end of the first game.
This article (as linked above) and this one (which I didn't link before due to not mentioning Smash) blame the Zero-suit for starting a trend of increased sexualization.

Personally, I don't find anything that happened in Metroid Zero Mission (which introduced the zero-suit) innapropriate. Despite the flac given by those writers, I accept the zero-suit as part of Metroid cannon. But I don't like the further sexualization of Samus that happened after Zero Mission. In that game, she only used the Zero-suit in a mission because she lost the Power suit, and they stated that it is not meant for combat.

If they want the zero-suit to be playable in Metroid games, I think they should make it a very specialized option that's specifically suited to stealth; the Power Suit would be the better option 85%+ of the time, but with a small number of sections that are easier with the zero suit due to stealth.


In my opinion, Super Smash Bros should not make the characters appearance too goofy in comparison to the games they're from. In fact, I like it that some Smash games (especially Brawl) gave the cartoony characters a grittier appearance. I think it's fine for them to behave more goofy than they do in their source material.


You must be kidding. They are clearly designed just to look like high heels. They do not even look like rocket boots.

Yeah, because rocket boots totally exist in real life and look nothing like heels, am I right?

She still only uses Zero Suit in missions against her will in Metroid games, what are you talking about?

 

[Skyblade12]

I think it
1. Is really dumb looking
2. Is completely made up fan-fic
3. Goes against everything ZSS is supposed to be
4. Perpetuates this stupid Smash tradition that the POWER SUIT, the source of all her superhuman abilities and weaponry, for some reason weighs her down, slows her, reduces her power, overall just straight nerfs her.

As for the sexualization stuff, I am neither inclined to nor qualified to talk about that.

While you're mostly right, I have to say that the Power Suit is NOT the source of all of her superhuman abilities. Genetic modification is responsible for increased stamina and strength, though the strength she gains from the Power Suit increases it MUCH further.

 

[_Sheik]

I'm got a weird combination of not really caring, but at the same time being annoyed by the people angry about her having high heels.

This. I don't like heels in real life and video games, but these are actual "jet boots" and it's completely ****ing rad, both in playstyle and in appearance

 

[smashingDoug]

I don’t think the high heel part degrades her. Character I care that those boots never appeared in Zero mission

I fell like the jet boot kill what Zero suit Samus is supposed to represent. A person with no armour or assets to help them out just her skill alone to complete the mission. Jet heels kill that experience

Pulse the green and sliver crashes with the blue jumpsuit making them stand out what doesn’t help

 

[Electric-Gecko]

Yeah, because rocket boots totally exist in real life and look nothing like heels, am I right?

She still only uses Zero Suit in missions against her will in Metroid games, what are you talking about?

You're right that they don't exist. But if they did, the force wouldn't come just out of the heel (as that's unbalanced). But it's really obvious that their goal was to make them look like high heels. High heels are not good for agility, and don't make sense for the zero suit.

As for how I think they should represent the zero-suit in Metroid games, I deleted that part as I decided it wasn't relevant to this discussion.

BTW, you shouldn't fully quote such long posts. Only quote the parts you are responding to.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

I hate the heels and don't get way why she even has them.

And the problem isn't that it makes Samus more sexualised. The Zero Suit is a skin tight body suit and her alts from are basically undergarments, but I don't think there is anything wrong with that since it would make sense for her to wear something like these under a heavy suit of armor.

My real issue with them, they make no sense and clash with the tone of the Metriod series. High heels are the worst kind of footwear for someone that is meant to be fighting and doing acrobatic stunts, she would trip all over the place more then she did in Brawl. Its fine for Bayonetta to fight in heels because the tone of her series is over the top and goofy, the character also cares a lot about her looks and style. But for a game with a more serous tone like Metriod, they don't mesh.

Not only that but these rocket heels are now a large part of her move set...even though she has never used anything like them in her games. I really don't understand why she was given these shoes that she never wore as a primary part of her moveset, when Smash 4 went out of its way to make characters more accurate to their games series.

 

[Metallinatus]

When she was revealed with high-heels in Super Smash Bros 4, it was unexpected. It also felt unfit for the character, and her role as a bounty hunter.

Samus doesn't bounty hunt in her Zero Suit, she has a whole Power Suit used specially for that.

Super Smash Bros normally (tries to) take character designs from existing games, so it's also strange given that these heels were never in a Metroid game

Her paralyzer never functioned as a whip either in a Metroid game, nobody ever complained about that. She never used flip jump either, nobody is complaining.

Interestingly, here's some concept art from Metroid: Zero Mission, with translated notes. Notice the note on heel-height at the bottom-right?

That Zero Suit design was made to be weared underneath the Power Suit, which obviously couldn't have high heels. That's not the case with Smash 4 and Ultimate, as she is a completely separated character from the one wearing the Power Suit.
If anything, I like how Sakurai did his own thing with ZSS in Smash 4 instead of copy/pasting the Other M design which I truly don't like (she also has high heels there DESPITE wearing it underneath the Power Suit), and I like how the heels are actually essential part of her MOVESET as she uses it for COMBAT, not for looks, especially since the thing is ugly as heck. I am all for the heels unless Sakurai can make her moves be just as cool and powerful looking without them as he made it with them.
Now let's all make a petition to get rid of the terrible Power Suit design from Other M and get back the Varia Suit from Super Metroid or Metroid Prime, or anything. They did it for Ganondorf, sure they can do it for Samus too....

 

[Electric-Gecko]

and I like how the heels are actually essential part of her MOVESET as she uses it for COMBAT, not for looks, especially since the thing is ugly as heck. I am all for the heels unless Sakurai can make her moves be just as cool and powerful looking without them as he made it with them.

I think they can make similar looking moves with different rocket shoes/boots. Having no high-heels would just make the acrobaticism more believable. You agree that they're ugly so..?

Now let's all make a petition to get rid of the terrible Power Suit design from Other M and get back the Varia Suit from Super Metroid or Metroid Prime, or anything.

I agree that I prefer the Varia suit as in Brawl. I think that Smash 4 focused too much on representing recent games rather than the classics. So they based Samus off of Other M; her most recent, but most reviled appearance.

While many of you don't really care about this, there are many who do. So I'm going to start an online petition to have this changed for Smash Ultimate's release.

Does anyone have a good recommendation for a petition website? I want the petition to be bilingual English/Japanese. It should preferably send e-mails to the petitions targets (Nintendo, Bandai Namco), or deliver it to them in some way.

I don't know which petition sites are popular in Japan. I searched "オンライン請願" (online petition) on google.co.jp, and the first result was Petitions24 (click here for English site), though they have so few petitions listed on the Japanese site that it doesn't seem so popular. It was the only petition site that I could identify in the search results. Petitions24 and PoliCAT are the only sites I found with native support for posting translations, but PoliCAT seems very politics-oriented. Maybe I should just use Change.org and post the English and Japanese in the same fields, as Change.org is popular overall and has a Japanese version of the site. However, I don't know how it would get Nintendo's/Bandai Namco's/Sakurai's attention no matter how many signatures it receives. Change.org used to have a field for the target's e-mail address, although I don't see that option when I start a new petition.

I'm not fluent in Japanese, so I will need someone else to translate. If there isn't anyone here that can translate, I'll probably go to r/translator or r/translation.

Spoiler: Petition

In Super Smash Bros Ultimate, don't give Samus Aran high heels
In Super Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS, Zero Suit Samus has high-heeled "rocket boots". This design choice received some criticism. These high heels never appeared before in a Metroid game (or any game). They were seen as unwieldy for Samus's acrobatic movement. This does not fit with the serious tone of the Metroid series. In fact, concept art for the Zero suit in it's first appearance (Metroid Zero Mission) included a note to not make her heel too high.

Despite this criticism, the released footage of the upcoming Super Smash Bros Ultimate shows her with high heels. Given the criticism of this design in Super Smash Bros 4, they should not be repeating this mistake in Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

While they do function as rocket boots, they are clearly designed to look like high heels, and this is not how rocket boots should be designed.

Sign this petition if you want Samus Aran to not have high heels in Super Smash Bros Ultimate when it's released.

Message to be delivered (will be translated):
In Super Smash Bros Ultimate, please do not give Samus Aran high heels.

 

[meleebrawler]

You do realize it's waaaaayyyyy too late to make such a drastic change before release?

 

[Darches]

Her moveset would require minimal adjustments without the rocket boots... Get rid of 'em. High heels are not sexy either, they are just stupid (impractical).

You do realize it's waaaaayyyyy too late to make such a drastic change before release?

Never tell me the odds! That's exactly how to NOT get things done. The Smash team has tons of resources available and they already made her without high heels in Brawl.

 

[Electric-Gecko]

You do realize it's waaaaayyyyy too late to make such a drastic change before release?

Is it really? It's planned to be released in December, so they have a few months. Would it really take so long for them to partially change one character model and animations?

 

[Darches]

Her only animation that would need to be changed is upB, since the multi-hit doesn't make sense without the rockets.

 

[meleebrawler]

I hate the heels and don't get way why she even has them.

And the problem isn't that it makes Samus more sexualised. The Zero Suit is a skin tight body suit and her alts from are basically undergarments, but I don't think there is anything wrong with that since it would make sense for her to wear something like these under a heavy suit of armor.

My real issue with them, they make no sense and clash with the tone of the Metriod series. High heels are the worst kind of footwear for someone that is meant to be fighting and doing acrobatic stunts, she would trip all over the place more then she did in Brawl. Its fine for Bayonetta to fight in heels because the tone of her series is over the top and goofy, the character also cares a lot about her looks and style. But for a game with a more serous tone like Metriod, they don't mesh.

Not only that but these rocket heels are now a large part of her move set...even though she has never used anything like them in her games. I really don't understand why she was given these shoes that she never wore as a primary part of her moveset, when Smash 4 went out of its way to make characters more accurate to their games series.

Because sometimes, true accuracy is a bad thing.

The only way to truly represent ZSS's "weakness" outside of her suit would be to not represent her at all. Do we really want that?

Generally speaking, characters in Smash are not there to represent the series they come from, they are there to represent themselves. Wario could better represent Warioware by featuring microgames in his moveset, but instead it focuses on his actual character and traits.

How does Samus use jet heels without stumbling about? Because she's mother****ing Samus Aran, trained from childhood to be a warrior and genetically altered to be a peak example of human condition. I'm not about to question the practicality of these when they exist in the same universe as a woman who has guns serving as them. Why strictly follow canon if all it does is limit you?

 

[TerminatorLOL]

Because sometimes, true accuracy is a bad thing.

The only way to truly represent ZSS's "weakness" outside of her suit would be to not represent her at all. Do we really want that?

Generally speaking, characters in Smash are not there to represent the series they come from, they are there to represent themselves. Wario could better represent Warioware by featuring microgames in his moveset, but instead it focuses on his actual character and traits.

How does Samus use jet heels without stumbling about? Because she's mother****ing Samus Aran, trained from childhood to be a warrior and genetically altered to be a peak example of human condition. I'm not about to question the practicality of these when they exist in the same universe as a woman who has guns serving as them.

I thought that Brawl represented the Zero Suit just fine. That's part of the reason I don't know why the heels even exist.

Smash 4 went out of its way to change Bowser and Yoshi to be more humanoid then they were in past Smash games so they could be more accurate to their series. But then Samus gets these crazy high heels out of no where. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Jamison]

I'm not bothered by the "sexualization" of ZSS. I don't think it's necessary but IDC too much either way. Giving her rocket boots in place of like space jump boots does make sense for the character. But the fact they are heels goes against everything Samus is as a character. She's portrayed as a strong independent character not a girly girl like Princess Peach. To have here in heels at all just feels unfitting.

 

[Metallinatus]

I think they can make similar looking moves with different rocket shoes/boots. Having no high-heels would just make the acrobaticism more believable. You agree that they're ugly so..?

Space Pirates are still trying to figure out how does Samus morph into a ball, and you're worried that having Samus fighting on high heels may not be very believable? And how do you suggest making the moves without the rockets? Namely, F-Smash and Up B. I love those moves much more than the ones she had in Brawl. You can't just make those moves without the rockets, as the power that those moves pack wouldn't really make sense. Even Down B started making more sense because of the boots. Keep the damn boots on.
Now please, stop with that petition thing, you are acting worse than the Waluigi fandom. Sakurai is making the biggest fan service in the history of video games, and people just can't get satisfied. You also assume the development team has nothing to do until December, which I'm sure couldn't be farther from truth. They won't tweak ZSS's model, moves and animations now, accept it. Hope for Power Suit buffs instead, they are infinitely more important than whatever agenda you have with high heels.

 

[Darches]

If it's a matter of proper representation, ZSS should take bonus damage from all attacks. This is because she's too OP in Sm4sh and she was very different in Zero Mission. She died in like 1-4 hits (I don't remember the exact number but you were crazy vulnerable without power armor).

 

[meleebrawler]

If it's a matter of proper representation, ZSS should take bonus damage from all attacks. This is because she's too OP in Sm4sh and she was very different in Zero Mission. She died in like 1-4 hits (I don't remember the exact number but you were crazy vulnerable without power armor).

That depended on how many tanks you had, and the difficulty. In the normal diffculty she takes a full tank per hit, so it can be like 10-12 hits before she dies if you have that many.

But it's a fallacious, slippery slope anyhow because if we go with that, most Mario characters should die in three hits at most, Sonic dies in 1 hit cuz he has no rings, icies also die in 1 hit, and the Kongs in 2 at the most. Because if you don't, then you're implying Samus is more frail than a balloon or baby electric mouse without her suit.

 

[Metallinatus]

If we go that route, then Samus better OHKO everything with Screaw Attack or I quit.

 

[Darches]

I'm not saying ZSS should actually die in 3 hits, just take some extra damage for both cannon and balance.
Samus' Screw Attack IS a kill move, though I agree it needs to be buffed a little. I once hit a Sonic with Screw Attack at 150% only to somehow die to his nAir before the final hit occured.

(If Dedede or Ganondorf were canonical they'd actually be good! Bowser would be a little better. Bayonetta would actually be worse!)

 

[David Viran]

I'm not saying ZSS should actually die in 3 hits, just take some extra damage for both cannon and balance.
Samus' Screw Attack IS a kill move, though I agree it needs to be buffed a little. I once hit a Sonic with Screw Attack at 150% only to somehow die to his nAir before the final hit occured.

(If Dedede or Ganondorf were canonical they'd actually be good! Bowser would be a little better. Bayonetta would actually be worse!)

I'm sorry but at no point should canon matter to balance. Characters have moves and taunts that represent them and their franchise but at no point should they get an advantage over another just because of their source material. The only time this happens is with characters like pichu who are more of a joke.

 

[Darches]

I'm sorry but at no point should canon matter to balance.

That's just your opinion, which isn't even related to what I said. Balance comes before canon, obviously. BUT! If you can improve balance AND canon at the same time then you'd be foolish not to do so. God forbid somebody write a single line of code.

damage *= 1.2f;

It's not even a big nerf since now she's harder to combo. It'll definitely improve Ganondorf's chances in 1vs1 though.

 

[David Viran]

That's just your opinion, which isn't even related to what I said. Balance comes before canon, obviously. BUT! If you can improve balance AND canon at the same time then you'd be foolish not to do so. God forbid somebody write a single line of code.

damage *= 1.2f;

It's not even a big nerf since now she's harder to combo. It'll definitely improve Ganondorf's chances in 1vs1 though.

I would agree with your example if I thought it actually would improve balance and canon. That nerf would not make her more balanced tho. Characters like ganondorf are still going to have trouble hitting her and and can still get touch of deathed themselves. It wouldn't help her escape from combos too well either due to her fall speed and gravity so top tiers will just **** on her harder. Missed grabs become even more risky.

Edit: Also this example doesn't really even refute my claim that improving balance should be done regardless of canon.

 

[meleebrawler]

I thought that Brawl represented the Zero Suit just fine. That's part of the reason I don't know why the heels even exist.

No one liked how Samus and ZSS worked in Brawl, that's why. They were balanced with the assumption you'd switch throughout the match, except you couldn't do that without a Smash Ball, so most of the time you're stuck with one mediocre fighter (that includes ). When stuck together you're forced to balance each other's strengths and weaknesses which seldom works out (just look at Zelda/Sheik), but when separate you're free to make both as good and distinct as you can.

 

[Metallinatus]

No one liked how Samus and ZSS worked in Brawl, that's why. They were balanced with the assumption you'd switch throughout the match, except you couldn't do that without a Smash Ball, so most of the time you're stuck with one mediocre fighter (that includes ). When stuck together you're forced to balance each other's strengths and weaknesses which seldom works out (just look at Zelda/Sheik), but when separate you're free to make both as good and distinct as you can.

It's possible to go from Samus to ZSS without the morph ball, which I think is pretty cool, but it sucks that she can't go from ZSS to Samus. Now now, ZSS was not "mediocre", she was top 10 more or less, Samus on the other hand, it looks like Sakurai intentionally made her suck to balance the forms out, and then two games later he still didn't remember to fix her up now that they are separate.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty much in the boat that Zero Suit Samus as she currently is in smash doesn't really make sense in contrast to Zero Suit Samus in the games. Considering that she somehow becomes way more over the top in zero suit form than in her, you know, power armor. That always bugged me.

But yeah, the heels bug me, not because I don't like heels generally, but because they seem out of tone for Samus and Metroid in general really. But that's just something that bugs me about Zero Suit Samus since Smash 4 really.

But yes, the heels among other design choices seem really gaudy to me.

 

[meleebrawler]

It's possible to go from Samus to ZSS without the morph ball, which I think is pretty cool, but it sucks that she can't go from ZSS to Samus. Now now, ZSS was not "mediocre", she was top 10 more or less, Samus on the other hand, it looks like Sakurai intentionally made her suck to balance the forms out, and then two games later he still didn't remember to fix her up now that they are separate.

Mmmmkay, maybe she is good but the amount of effort needed to get her to that point kind of renders it moot, especially when far better options are available (Meta Knight). And it means diddly squat for free-for-alls, where she is hilariously weak. I guess that made some people around here happy...