Samus' Kill Moves and Percentages

[Otterz]

I haven't been able to find a compilation of Samus' KO moves in Smash 3DS so I'd like to put that here. They will all be with Mario at the center of Final Destination to keep things consistent.

I'd also like to discuss the best options to use to kill and in what situations. I've found success with holding onto my Charge Shot for pressure and pulling off a full Up-B.

All percentages are relative to before Mario was hit by the move:
CPU so DI/VI/Whatever is not taken into account.

Specials

*Charge Shot (Fully Charged): ~115%
Super Missile: ~262%
Homing Missile: Does not KO
Morph Ball Bomb: >300%
*Screw Attack: All Credit to -Jax

Spoiler

Up-B kills Mario at 160% if you use it when both grounded, it kills at 135% if you use it at mario's single jump height. Of course killing percentages for moves like this don't mean that much from this low, as you'll probably never try to kill with them here.

Upthrow -> Up-B kills starting at 86% (so 95% if you include the damage the upthrow deals), but of course that highly depends on how your opponents responds after the upthrow. The training dummy dodges, so you actually catch him a bit lower than the height of your up-throw. It also seems like Up-B has more knockback the more you manage to get your opponent to the center of it as the last hit lands, so keep trying to steer into your opponent when using it.

Smashes

*Sweet Spotted F-smash: ~80% (fully charged), ~115 (uncharged)
*Normal F-smash: ~95% (fully charged), ~140% (uncharged)
U-smash Entire Move: ~90% (fully charged), ~130% (uncharged)
D-smash: ~210% (fully charged), ~285% (uncharged)

Aerials

Nair: ~185% (front), ~240% (back)
*Bair: ~125%
Dair: ~180%
Fair: ~180% (entire move, but only last hit has knockback)
Uair: ~155% (entire move, but only last hit has knockback)

Dash Attack

~200%

Tilts

U-Tilt: ~160%
D-Tilt: ~215%
F-Tilt: >300%

All Throws are >300% without a combo

All testing was done in Training Mode so I am not sure the the 'Rage Effect' effected the results.

Credit to Otterz & -Jax

 

[-Jax]

If I want to land some early kills right now the Charge Shot is easily the kill move I use the most, with the fsmash being a close second. Bair is also one I use a lot, usually when the opponent is trying to return to the stage.

But right now what works the best to me is to not focus on landing a killing move at all. I always leave myself really open trying to do so, so I just try to rack up as much damage as possible while keeping my utilt (edit: accidentally typed dtilt here :/ that move doesn't kill anymore) fresh and then try to KO them with that. For me that seems to work a lot better than trying to KO them earlier, as the actual killing moves she has are pretty hard to land against a skilled player/non-laggy characters.

Here's some percentages for some of the moves I mentioned against mario.

Center Stage:
sweetspotted fsmash: ~80% (fully charged), ~115 (uncharged)
normal fsmash: ~95% (fully charged), ~140% (uncharged)
bair: ~125%
charge shot: ~115% (fully charged, ofc)

Edge of Stage:
sweetspotted fsmash: 55% (fully charged) ~90 (uncharged)
normal fmash: 75% (fully charged), ~105 (uncharged)
bair: ~90%
charge shot: 90%

Note the importance of sweetspotting your fsmash (15-25% difference!)

I don't really know if bair has a sweetspot or not. It didn't seem like it when I tried, but I didn't experiment with the move a lot. It is stronger right after it comes out than when it lingers a bit, but that seems obvious.

Edit:

Up-B kills Mario at 160% if you use it when both grounded, it kills at 135% if you use it at mario's single jump height. Of course killing percentages for moves like this don't mean that much from this low, as you'll probably never try to kill with them here.

Upthrow -> Up-B kills starting at 86% (so 95% if you include the damage the upthrow deals), but of course that highly depends on how your opponents responds after the upthrow. The training dummy dodges, so you actually catch him a bit lower than the height of your up-throw. It also seems like Up-B has more knockback the more you manage to get your opponent to the center of it as the last hit lands, so keep trying to steer into your opponent when using it.

 

[Primer TMT]

and Nair? has good knockback

 

[Otterz]

and Nair? has good knockback

I'm constantly updating the OP as I test them, Nair is up now.

 

[AetherEch0s]

But right now what works the best to me is to not focus on landing a killing move at all. I always leave myself really open trying to do so, so I just try to rack up as much damage as possible while keeping my utilt (edit: accidentally typed dtilt here :/ that move doesn't kill anymore) fresh and then try to KO them with that. For me that seems to work a lot better than trying to KO them earlier, as the actual killing moves she has are pretty hard to land against a skilled player/non-laggy characters.

this. i've had great success just doing my thing instead of focusing on landing a kill move. chances are you're going to hit a charge shot or something eventually anyway and the higher their damage the more likely they are to panic and fumble a shield as you mix the charge shot in with your missiles. early game i might go offstage to try and land a dair or something but as they get over 100% i find it better to just stand back and spam hoping you catch them as they raise up or land after ledge jumping.

 

[Beard Hawk]

Bair definitely has a sweet spot at the foot. I haven't worked out killing percentages, but it seems a lot stronger (something like 14% damage) at the tip than at the leg (about 10%). One of Samus' better moves in my opinion.

 

[NinjaWaddleDee]

Anyone know what the best strategy for a new Samus player would be? I' m getting utterly thrashed online whenever I play as her. What is the best Samus strategy that isn't super advanced?

 

[n00b]

Get them off you.

 

[YourOpinionIs]

If you post a video I can critique it.

But generally, make them approach you with missiles. Don't shoot missiles if they are in dash attack distance from you unless you are guaranteed to hit them. Most likely they will try to approach in the air. Uair and Usmash are decent options but don't just throw USmashes around since they have high end lag. Jab is terrible. A lot of people like the jump down on you with an aerial, but some aerials have enough ending lag that you can shield and grab them out of shield.(Shield, press A)

There are a few combos you can do from Grab>Dthrow depending on percent and weight.
Dthrow>Uair>Jump>Uair>UpB
Dthrow>Fair
Dthrow>Jump>Charge shot

Also, don't throw charge shots unless you know they are going to hit, like when your opponent is in hit stun. Just having a charged charge shot scares people and limits their approach. Learn patience.
DO NOT TRY TO APPROACH GROUNDED OPPONENTS FROM THE AIR. I see so many Samus's videos and this frustrates me so much. People trying to drop on their opponents with Fair and they get shielded and punished. Use your bombs to stall and be unpredictable with where you'll end up.

 

[NinjaWaddleDee]

Okay thanks guys. I'll try posting a video sometime.

 

[the.tok]

I’m not good by any means, but what I try to do　:

Annoy them, and make them take the initiative… to better counter them. They are the one that needs to come to you, and you have some OK punishing tools if they do something unsafe.
If they don’t come, missiles, super missiles and they will have to approach.

I try to avoid aerials if they are not in the air themselves, as the tilts are usually exactly what I need to punish them. Ftilt has a very good range and is quite fast to punish. Utilt is good from closer too, even for anti-air with good timing.

If they do something laggy, Fsmash is very potent and has better range than I expected in this game if you hit with the sweetspot only. Usmash, I try to use it only if they have a tall character, or they are helpless in the air, or other situations where I cannot be punished, because the lag really hurts. Good damage though!

If I’m too far and they whiff / lag, then charge shot while they recover makes them think twice.

I try to be as patient as possible, eventually they make mistakes/become predictable. If you can predict what they will do, you can counter! When they least expect it, counter attack air to air with fair or uair (retreating zair if the move they use have better range) has worked pretty well for me.
It just a repeating cycle of annoying -> baiting -> punishing -> reset

And when they get accustomed to you being defensive, is when you use the mighty bair ^.^

The hard part is once they have outplayed you, and you are getting juggled… Some Villagers have been a problem to me too because I am being too predictable with my charge shot :-/

Oh, and of course, when I fight someone much better, that doesn't work as well :]

I haven't found a place for the Up+B though : anyone has a good way to use it? I am too afraid of getting punished badly if I whiff...

 

[The TaBuu]

quick question : is the sweetspot on fsmash the explosion at the end?

 

[Beard Hawk]

The threat of a charge shot is sometimes as deadly as an actual charge shot.

Sweetspot fsmash = explosion, up angled fsmash has better knockback. Up B works out of shield, therefore Up B works out of charging, but yeah, dangerous for Samus.

 

[IsmaR]

I haven't found a place for the Up+B though : anyone has a good way to use it? I am too afraid of getting punished badly if I whiff...

Platforms are your friend. Up B ends just high enough for you to land on the top platform of Battlefield. Also helps to lead into it with FF U-air.

None of that does you any good on For Glory/Omega Formes/Final Destination, however. You're usually better off only using it out of shield, or not at all.

quick question : is the sweetspot on fsmash the explosion at the end?

Yes. It will still do good knockback even if not sweetspotted, but getting the explosive tip kills much earlier.

Angled up = slightly stronger, but harder to hit with (on shorter/fast characters especially), while angled down = weaker but obviously easier to hit with.

 

[kro_]

Will the CPU do hitstun shuffling/vectoring? This could change things a little.

 

[justincase145]

Will the CPU do hitstun shuffling/vectoring? This could change things a little.

AFAIK the CPUs do not Vecor/DI/whatever we're calling it.

Also thanks Otter for making this thread, I've been hoping somebody would get around to it for a few days now :D

My *favorite* way to kill someone is the dair meteor, but that's only when I can actually pull it off. Otherwise b-air/fsmash/charged shot are my ways to kill.

Edit: almost forgot about upair, it's an awesome way to finish people after a dthrow (or you could upb)

 

[Beard Hawk]

Is it just me or has dair got awful priority? It might just be that I'm not good enough with the timing, but it never ends well for me. Trying to land from above with Samus is very difficult, it's much safer to just not dair and do something else.

 

[n00b]

Is it just me or has dair got awful priority? It might just be that I'm not good enough with the timing, but it never ends well for me. Trying to land from above with Samus is very difficult, it's much safer to just not dair and do something else.

Fade away with an aerial to get into grab/ftilt range, Samus is pretty much unsafe on all her aerials on an opponent's shield going air to ground.

 

[Beard Hawk]

Is sm4sh unwinnable if you play an attacking style? I watched a few of the big names playing Sm4sh, and they were very defensive, responsive. They waited for each other to mess up mostly. They were able to force mistakes out of other players, but they rarely just went and took the match by going all-out offensive and overwhelming their opponent. Alright, I know I'm playing as Samus, and not Captain Falcon, but I don't enjoy camping ALL the time. Is it possible to dictate a faster speed of game?