Samus' Defensive, Offensive, & Frame Traps

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

It feels like Samus is a bit lacking on this front, figured I would ask the community of what they think or do to cause this particular situation.
The only setups I seem to net consistently are:
1) Short hop super missiles that either intercept a landing opponent or they air dodge to bypass it and I hit them with a charge shot during their landing lag, so they are damaged either way and the SM does enough knock back that the CS can generally be recharged without much fear of retaliation if the opt to be hit by the missile instead.
2) come at a falling opponent as if to up air, if they call the "bluff" you generally land a u-air or if the try to air dodge past its a free up-b.

I figure its important for Samus' meta that we at least get a list of generally reliably trap setups, so let's hear what you guys got! Also if we got any good 50/50's bring um up.

I'll make a list of set ups here in place of the OP later on.

 

[Afro Smash]

Homing missile either off stage or vs an opponent without a jump > Aerial/CS

Bombs off stage > Aerial

If they airdodge through either they take an aerial or CS, which is a worse punish but its very hard to condition yourself to just take an explosion to your face

I'm also pretty sure if we time it right we can catch anyone landing with CS since it's so big and active they can't airdodge through it all and as soon as they land, ded

 

[Xygonn]

Just to get a good definition, frame traps are strings where your opponent can block or start a move but cannot possibly hit you with the moves they can use. It's more important in other fighting games because restarting a combo string with a counter hit will change damage scaling and other stuff.

Utilt -> Dtilt (on tech) is a frame trap. They could block, but if they go agro most characters can't even start a jab before dtilt comes out. For other characters the term is probably more appropriate if they have an OK jab grab. So if they jab grab, they can get jabbed out of it, but if they jab1, dtilt (or something like that) they can punish the offensive jab meant to stop the jab grab with the frame trap dtilt.

Taking advantage of defensive cooldown isn't really a frame trap. It's really a bait and punish.

 

[Afro Smash]

So is there a word/term to describe forcing your opponent in to a situation where they're forced to take a hit?

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

I suppose I can change the name of the thread to traps in general, but the idea is always going to be a little different in Smash regardless purely because there are a lot of things we can do in a defensive position that you can't in other fighting games. Its still important to her meta that we flesh this out either way, for new player and vets alike. I digress.

Our jab1 is a frame three hit is it not? Does anyone know if our u-air does enough shield stun without the final hit to frame trap them if they try to shieldgrab or anythimg else (beyond a good up-b oos option I assume). Obviously if you get the final hit of u-air it should frame trap pretty easily, but of course you may not be setting up for that.

 

[Xygonn]

I suppose I can change the name of the thread to traps in general, but the idea is always going to be a little different in Smash regardless purely because there are a lot of things we can do in a defensive position that you can't in other fighting games. Its still important to her meta that we flesh this out either way, for new player and vets alike. I digress.

Our jab1 is a frame three hit is it not? Does anyone know if our u-air does enough shield stun without the final hit to frame trap them if they try to shieldgrab or anythimg else (beyond a good up-b oos option I assume). Obviously if you get the final hit of u-air it should frame trap pretty easily, but of course you may not be setting up for that.

I would approve of calling them traps and baits. Frame traps are pretty specific. I think the term gets abused and it becomes confusing as to what we are talking about.

All hits of uair do one frame of shield stun. Everyone but tether grabs can shield grab us if we don't cross up on shield.

So is there a word/term to describe forcing your opponent in to a situation where they're forced to take a hit?

Just a plain old trap.

In some cases though, it is a bait and punish because the objective is to make them avoid the first hit to punish with a much stronger attack.

 

[DungeonMaster]

As Xygonn pointed out, we're not a frame trap character, really. That is for the quickest boxers in the game and due to the nature of smash shields, even they are not fantastic at it. We're really a combo and tech chase character.
You should always hunt for landing lag incidentally. If your opponent has a reflector/counter send a missile or threaten grab rather than charge shot, but it's absolutely critical to hunt for landing lag in this game as Samus. Those guaranteed 4 frames of landing lag have netted me more damage and kills than any combo, tech chase or frame trap combined. In hindsight it should be front and centre in the compendium...

 

[Squaddle]

sorta relevant, I guess. More mind-gamey than a true trap, though.

I usually just drop a morphbomb on the edge and fish for an up-tilt, or go for the tether trump... but I sometimes like to mix it up and do this. If they're not expecting it they'll usually panic and just get up back on the ledge, netting you a free bair, or doing some serious shield damage. Its better to place the bomb in the middle of their getup and roll stop positions, of course.

Honestly down-b in general is really great for forcing the opponent to do dumb things, it's great.