Samus 1.06 Patch Notes

[Xygonn]

So, the sour spot... Do we know when it gives us a tech chase? Also, the groin hit (6%) should still give a tech chase at lower percents. Tech chase isn't the only purpose of the move.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Yeah I'm undecided right now. I was initially convinced it was a buff but now I'm leaning towards a nerf. The tech chase i% from the sourspot is very high %, like 150+. I'll get actual %s for all the hitboxes in the combo thread some time this weekend. Well we play with it and see right?
I agree with you Xrygonn it behaves a lot like Rob's ftilt.

 

[Depth_]

I can't say it is a nerf quite yet. That f tilt is looking to be good for reasons unrelated to u tilt. F tilt is faster and is usable not onky at ledge. It is good for retreating tilts, and stage presence/control.

I like the idea of using the new F-tilt for retreats. I'm also quite interested in the percent chance after looking into shield stun. That extra added percent could have given us one more frame of shield stun on our tipper. I'm bummed though. One percent more and we could be tilting with a priority move.

 

[Boney]

So the missiles speed was a placebo effect as well? Weird, guess I got used to relentless missiles.

But yeah ftilt is a huge nerf. It's still a good move and has good uses but the extra knockback isn't worth trading for the perfect knockback it used to have and the weak hits are just mind boggling, the knee can get you punished like jab 1 at earlier percents.

The one move where I wouldn't have changed a damn thing is the only one that changes and for the worse.

 

[Tumultus]

The new ftilt made it so much easier to be punished on hit. That's never okay and a confirmed nerf on the ftilt we had before.

It's got one use as a punish option at high percents. That's not what we need. We need more close combat options, not less... The new tilt requires careful use when we could just throw it out there before.

 

[Depth_]

So the missiles speed was a placebo effect as well? Weird, guess I got used to relentless missiles.

But yeah ftilt is a huge nerf. It's still a good move and has good uses but the extra knockback isn't worth trading for the perfect knockback it used to have and the weak hits are just mind boggling, the knee can get you punished like jab 1 at earlier percents.

The one move where I wouldn't have changed a damn thing is the only one that changes and for the worse.

The missile speed increase was real. We did a test on WiiFit Studios frame by frame. Super's acceleration increases once it passes one of the treadmills.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

I'm not convinced bomb jumping has changed at all. Comparing to to a pre-patched version of the game is resulting in the same amount of jumps from the same distances. If bomb jump height has been tinkered with its at a very negligible amount.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I would really love to see a side by side missile comparison between versions. I feel in game, nothing.
We can avoid a lot of the sourspot with angled tilts in close. I'm really not sure how the priority on the hitboxes works, as in on a big target which hitbox actually counts most? Say I f-tilt falcon up-close and thigh, knee and foreleg are all connecting to hurtboxes? Any insight from experts on this issue?

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

I would really love to see a side by side missile comparison between versions. I feel in game, nothing.
We can avoid a lot of the sourspot with angled tilts in close. I'm really not sure how the priority on the hitboxes works, as in on a big target which hitbox actually counts most? Say I f-tilt falcon up-close and thigh, knee and foreleg are all connecting to hurtboxes? Any insight from experts on this issue?

I'm not noticing a usable difference in homing missiles either, although perhaps the super missle might have changed. I can't get concrete data (as im using a stopwatch to compare) but I concur with Depth_ that the super missle seems to accelerate quicker. However if its true at all its only reaching its max range by about .10 of a second faster.

 

[Reydiance]

Totally called a Samus nerf. Wonderful. We just need more moves that are unsafe on hit. Thanks Samurai for nerfing the best character in the game.

 

[Xygonn]

I would really love to see a side by side missile comparison between versions. I feel in game, nothing.
We can avoid a lot of the sourspot with angled tilts in close. I'm really not sure how the priority on the hitboxes works, as in on a big target which hitbox actually counts most? Say I f-tilt falcon up-close and thigh, knee and foreleg are all connecting to hurtboxes? Any insight from experts on this issue?

I believe the hitboxes are listed in priority order on dantarion's site, so it checks for collision with each box in order on a frame and stops as soon as it finds the first one.

The old hitboxes were:

def game_58():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=8.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x9, Damage=6.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x5A, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xF, Size=3.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.000000, X=0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x1, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x6, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x1, GID=0x0, Bone=0x9, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x5A, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xF, Size=3.000000, Z=6.000000, Y=-0.500000, X=0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x1, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x6, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x2, GID=0x0, Bone=0x3, Damage=6.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x5A, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xF, Size=2.800000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.800000, X=4.500000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x1, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x6, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x3, GID=0x0, Bone=0x8, Damage=5.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x5A, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xF, Size=2.500000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.000000, X=0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x6, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
SynchronousTimer_20B(Frame=3.000000, )
RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
End_196()


My guess is that the new hitboxes have the 0x8 bone (thigh) listed BEFORE the 0x3 (hip?) hit box and maybe even before the 0x9 (shin) hit box. That is, the move was supposed to have a 5 damage sour spot (though with the same base and knockback growth) but we never saw it in practice because it is overlapped with the shin and hip hit boxes.

If you look at Marth's hitboxes, the tipper hit box is always last on a frame, so if you hit with both the middle and the tip, you get the middle hit. I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Don't take it as gospel, but I believe our tipper is still behind the main shin hit box in priority. Maybe a good way to test is to kick some really wide characters (Bowser) and compare with wii fit trainer at different ranges. Could probably suss out priority that way.

 

[Afro Smash]

Super Missiles have definitely changed as Super Missile > Charge Shot is no longer a true combo at low percents. My guess is that they get there too quickly so they aren't in hit stun by the time the Charge Shot gets there

 

[Xygonn]

Super Missiles have definitely changed as Super Missile > Charge Shot is no longer a true combo at low percents. My guess is that they get there too quickly so they aren't in hit stun by the time the Charge Shot gets there

Could be knockback gimp? They feel faster to me.... Maybe the angle changed a little bit?

 

[Afro Smash]

Zair to F Tilt combo for high percent kills, again with rage and lighter characters this will kill at more reasonable percents.

I agree changes to F Tilt were a nerf, our jab goes over most prone characters, and now f tilt usually does too much damage to jab lock, so we've lost combo potential there. And tech chases are less reliable now, but I mean complaining about it does nothing so lets just try to make good of a bad situation. Although if someone could document knockdown percents for each of the f tilt hitboxes it would be nice.

As for the missile if depth went frame by frame ill trust his conclusion that acceleration has increase, this is also a nerf imo as it takes away some of our super missile combis, but I guess it lets us apply pressure faster from a distance.

 

[Fluidityt]

I don't think we've been nerfed. I'm finding myself having much more spacing options. Between the missiles, bombs, and throwing out more ftilts, and when they hit ppl get thrown back more, means I'm getting more charging and better stage control.

I'm happy.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

Chibo Sempai noticed me!

Clash Tournaments has put up their side-by-side comparision video of the new patch for Samus, proving and disproving a few things we couldn't have figured out concretely without it.

While he may not have not had the time to discover all the hitbox changes of f-tilt (understandably), baring any other hitbox nuances everything else was exactly what we needed. Bombs do not send you higher (at least on start up), down throw has the same knock back, homing missiles have not changed speed or tracking ability, but super missiles have in fact had a speed increase.

That man is a hero.

 

[halloweenmeyer44]

I thought this would be a useful video comparing all of Samus's moves between the newest update and just before the update. I hope this is appreciated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9lb8EC9_jo

 

[GameBird]

Do you think super missiles are a buff or a nerf now?

 

[DungeonMaster]

It seems to me the only reason to pick that specific velocity profile for the super-missile, and only the super-missile was to remove the low % super-missile -> CS combo and make the SH and FJ variants tight as hell. I find it hard to describe it as a buff, it's a nerf.

 

[Doeboy]

Now I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I've been waiting for someone else to say it and no one else has.

We all know the changes to the normal F-tilt, but no one has brought up what I'm pretty are changes (buffs) to the angled versions too. There are 3 hitboxes: tipping (tip toes) for 9%, foot/ankle for 8%, and the rest of the leg for 6%. Wasn't it just two hitboxes previously? 8% past the ankle and 7% otherwise?

 

[Afro Smash]

Now I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I've been waiting for someone else to say it and no one else has.

We all know the changes to the normal F-tilt, but no one has brought up what I'm pretty are changes (buffs) to the angled versions too. There are 3 hitboxes: tipping (tip toes) for 9%, foot/ankle for 8%, and the rest of the leg for 6%. Wasn't it just two hitboxes previously? 8% past the ankle and 7% otherwise?

I've had that info in the OP since the day the patch dropped

 

[Squaddle]

I swear Up-smash's hit-chain has been fixed at least a little bit: By that I mean that if I get the first hit off, I'm connecting the next few hits with it more frequently. It still wiffs all the time and is a horrid move in general but I do feel like it's been improved somewhat.

but then again I was so certain about the charge shot being nerfed... :/

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

I swear Up-smash's hit-chain has been fixed at least a little bit: By that I mean that if I get the first hit off, I'm connecting the next few hits with it more frequently. It still wiffs all the time and is a horrid move in general but I do feel like it's been improved somewhat.

but then again I was so certain about the charge shot being nerfed... :/

I kinda got that feeling too, but the move is just as useless as it ever was regardless because if it was tinkered with it still only works if you actually hit with then inside the move. It still doesn't do anything if they fall into it as they just kinda bounce off.

 

[Doeboy]

I've had that info in the OP since the day the patch dropped

Oops haha. I guess I didn't remember seeing it, and I've just been checking the main thread which doesn't reflect that buff.