I don't know:
Jab 1 and 2 (spaced) -5/-7,
Dtilt (spaced) -9,
Nair (spaced) +2/-2, Fair (spaced) -4,
Bair (spaced) -8/-9,
Can anyone show us a vine how ^ can be safe on shield? Nair will be the best because I always get shield grabbed.
Thanks!
Did you get the numbers from this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...WFwy_dg04Rrq4a-YF9-VDOhZI/edit#gid=1382071540 ?
You should include context when you post numbers for moves on block. Smash has two on block values that players need to be concerned with, and dropping #s without mentioning the context is misleading.
As for the moves, Jab 1/2 safety depends on the character you're fighting. If you space them both, you're still -5 or -7 if the opponent tries to hit you after dropping shield. Whether they can or can't depends on the character . Mario for example could drop shield and hit Pac-Man with Ftilt, Dtilt, and Dsmash if Pac-Man tries to jab 1 -> shield against him. The same goes for Fair and Bair, it depends on the character. I don't see many characters sans good tether grabs or items OoS punishing pac man for spaced Fair on block though.
For the Dtilt, similar story. It's -9 if they drop shield, and whether or not you can get punished depends on the character. Falcon could probably drop shield -> Ftilt pac man if the latter dtilts his shield. I wouldn't be trying to use Dtilt as a move on block. If you're fighting anyone with a F10 Fsmash, you have to shield immediately after you dtilt them or else pac man gets Fsmashed.
Nair's numbers need context. The strong hit of Nair is +2 on shield drop assuming you land right after striking their shield with it. It's great against characters with bad OoS games. However, since Pac's nair has low range though, most characters will be looking to punish you out of shield. That's when you see it's -5 for OoS responses if you use the strong hit.
Nair is never safe on block if the opponent has an F5 or faster OoS response. If they lack that, the only way it is safe on block is if you are
frame perfect with landing after you strike their shield and immediately using trampoline. If you are just a single frame off, you're going to get grabbed every time by F6 grabs. F7 grabs give you a 1 frame window for error, F8 grabs give you a 2 frame window, and so on. You have more room for error the slower the character's grab is.
The claim is that Dash-attack is +0 frames, presumably that means "static-difference" of +0 on regular shield.
That's insanely good in this game. If Dash-attack is +0 it means that its safe no matter where you are. Its kind of like a contradiction: why say "Safe on Crossup" when +0 means "literally always safe".
I know that the last hit of Dash-attack is quite safe, but I feel like its closer to -5ish. I think I need trampoline to get out of the counter-attack. I can't say that I've ever tested this in the lab, its more about experience. (I probably should test these things... but you need a good training partner to figure out these details)
It's +0 on shield drop, but -7 when considering out of shield responses. If it was +0 on out of shield, it'd be amazing.
If you Nair behind the opponent so that they can't grab you, I'll believe it. Otherwise, I'm fairly certain that Pacman can be grabbed from the landing-lag of Nair, especially because Nair has short-range.
If you are frame perfect with hitting their shield, then landing, nair is safe from everything except F5 or faster OoS options.
DA is safe on shield , only F5/F6 grabs can punish us or B OOS.
Dash attack 1 and 2 are not safe against F6 grabs or any F6 or faster OoS options as you said. Pac-Man can be grabbed/hit between the hits. Most of the relevant characters in this game have F6 grabs (Sonic, Sheik, Rosalina, Mario, Diddy, Fox, etc.), so I would not call the move safe on block.
Dash attack 1 and 2 are safe against F7 grabs. Pac-Man will trade with the grab if they try to grab him between hits.
Dash attack 3 is not safe against F7 or faster OoS options. They can grab/hit Pac-Man before trampoline/shield comes out.
DA 3 is safe against F8 or slower OoS options, since trampoline will bail pac man out of grabs, and he can shield any strikes (you're better off mashing trampoline though).
Cross up DA 3 is safe if the opponent doesn't have a F7 or faster OoS option, excluding grabs because pac man is now behind them. ZSS can always boost kick pac man for DA on shield; Marth/Lucina can always dolphin slash him; Diddy can throw a banana at him, etc.
