Ryu Or Ken? Here are the Differences.

[pupNapoleon]

When I first saw the direct on 11.1, Sakurai did an odd thing- he flat out listed every difference between Ryu and his new echo fighter, Ken.
Honestly, there were so many listed differences, that it barely felt like an echo fighter anymore.
Each echo fighter we have gotten seems to be more varying than the previous...

but I digress in my love for Tails.
Here are the listed differences from KEN to RYU:
-Heavy Shoryuken
-Hadoken (shape is different- whatever this means)
-Tatsumaki Senpukyaku hits multiple times
-Hell Wheel (thats all that is said on it)
-Focus Attack
-His kicks...
-He is faster

Honestly I have no idea what any of this means- not only is it not in my native tongue, but I'm not familiar enough with Street Fighter or even RYUs version in this game to understand what these changes actually mean.
He is faster than RYU which means he must have a lot weaker attacks, normally...

So, can this board help to determine the difference between these characters??

 

[Orlando BCN]

First of all, I didn't see him as an echo; I saw him as good ol' Ken from the source material since Street Fighter is practically my main game (weird flex, I know). But in my opinion, he does fit the bill for an echo quite nicely, much more than Chrom, I'd say.

It would be easier to spot the differences between Ryu and Ken if we were talking about their SFV versions; I mean, they're hardly echoes in that game. Sakurai was forgiving enough to give Kenny boi his Super Turbo iteration while including a few of his tools from the Alpha games, SF3, and SF4, keeping the glaring differences to a minimum. As I have not tried out the game yet, I can't say much about how his tilt and smashes will function (they will be different, no doubt), but I can certainly talk about his specials without a problem.

Hadoken: Ryu has the stronger fireball of the two. The afterimage of Ken's hands in his own fireball is a result of a weaker use of the move. Both can still move roughly the same distance, but Ryu's is mainly the go-to for zoning. Ken also lacks the Shakunetsu Hadoken (HCF+A), further showing his not-so-impressive skill with fireballs. Just be glad they didn't use Marvel vs. Capcom Ken; his fireballs only go half screen!

Shoryuken: Naturally, Ken's dp is more refined than Ryu's (the guy had to excel at SOMETHING!). Multiple hits mean more damage, and in later games, Ken has been able to pull off some crazy combos that utilize his dps, and not just for combo enders. While both Shotos have solid anti-air tools, Ken's use of the move is much more proficient and flashy. Flamin' hot Cheeto power!

Tatsu: Ken once again has the flashier version of this move. While Ryu's causes a simple knockdown in SF, Ken's allows him to carry his opponent a great distance thanks to its multi-hit properties (it allows follow-ups as well). Overall, they do about the same in terms of damage. In SFV, his V-Trigger 1 gives him fire Tatsus, something that I wish they included in Smash, along with his "helicopter" Tatsus from MvC.

Focus Attack: As this move only appeared in SF4, there isn't really much to be said about it. The only difference is that Ken uses a kick.

Hell Wheel: Great back throw with great carry distance. Probably has the best carry for a throw in Smash. All the more reason Ryu players will ditch him for Ken.

Crazy Kicks: Yes! They are indeed crazy!! But not Chun-Li or Juri crazy.

He is faster: And sexier (except when Hot Ryu is in the room).

Shinryuken: This move first appeared in Street Fighter Alpha and has remained one of his most popular super moves (despite it being his V-Trigger 2 in SFV, it's still pretty damn powerful). However, it wasn't until MvC that the move gained some notoriety. While it didn't have its vacuum properties back then like it currently does in Smash, it was still an awesome move to use.

Shippu Jinraikyaku: While less flashy than the Shinryuken (in my opinion) this is probably his ultimate universal super move. Once Ken used the move, he was a killing machine, charging right at you with kicks all around. If you didn't block this move, you were dead. Its aggressive pressure was a key reason for why it was his recommended Super Art in SF3, but seeing how his Guren Enjinkyaku from SFV is basically this move but with fire, I would've loved to see it take this spot instead. But yeah, I think Sakurai flipped the roles of these Final Smashes around, heheh.

And one more thing, probably the biggest difference as an echo: unlike Ryu, Ken went home and became a family man.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

I understand your terminology, but I feel like using dp, Shoto, and especially HCF might not be the best terms around someone who admitted to not being familiar with SF

 

[Orlando BCN]

I understand your terminology, but I feel like using dp, Shoto, and especially HCF might not be the best terms around someone who admitted to not being familiar with SF

I understand, but there certainly is no harm in looking it up. I’d be able to clarify if people asked, as well.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

I understand, but there certainly is no harm in looking it up. I’d be able to clarify if people asked, as well.

Fair enough, I just figured it was worth mentioning.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I am disappointed he doesn't have the Ken Crazy kick. His voice feels really wrong.
I'm not sure if the Ken tatsu is that good, since it doesn't knock back.
You can still weak uptilt spam into Shoryu, which is really good on Ken because of the greater power.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

In just one video that i cannot find. I saw Ken do a poke-kick that is exactly Ryu's light_forward_tilt. But I can't find the original video, or anyone else doing the same. Kick. Can anyone confirm that it's in the game?

 

[Mimic88]

I think the bigger question is...

"is it an echo fighter if it was already an echo fighter?"

 

[Chibi-Chan]

View attachment 180256In just one video that i cannot find. I saw Ken do a poke-kick that is exactly Ryu's light_forward_tilt. But I can't find the original video, or anyone else doing the same. Kick. Can anyone confirm that it's in the game?

Ken's light Ftilt is a foward snap kick with similar hitbox, the heavy one is a the street fighter standing HP, up close he does different stuff. He can't do a sidekick like in that picture and I've tried everything I can. However, I've seen him sometimes do some sort of roundhouse kick like Ryu's, but I can't figure out how to do it.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

Ken's light Ftilt is a foward snap kick with similar hitbox, the heavy one is a the street fighter standing HP, up close he does different stuff. He can't do a sidekick like in that picture and I've tried everything I can. However, I've seen him sometimes do some sort of roundhouse kick like Ryu's, but I can't figure out how to do it.

I found it. So how do you do it?

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I found it. So how do you do it?
View attachment 180442

That's Ryu/Ken's light F-tilt. It doesn't look entirely like the one in the previous image, so I think it's a different move.

 

[Orlando BCN]

That's Ryu/Ken's light F-tilt. It doesn't look entirely like the one in the previous image, so I think it's a different move.

Nope, they’re the same, since they’re both medium kicks.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

That's Ryu/Ken's light F-tilt. It doesn't look entirely like the one in the previous image, so I think it's a different move.

Well, I discovered how to do the new moves I couldn't figure out. They are performed using the Half-Circle forward (41236) A. Light is a high round kick and heavy cancels it into an axe kick. Ryu can't do these moves since he does the red fireball instead.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

Well, I discovered how to do the new moves I couldn't figure out. They are performed using the Half-Circle forward (41236) A. Light is a high round kick and heavy cancels it into an axe kick. Ryu can't do these moves since he does the red fireball instead.

Can you try: (632) A. and (236) A. as well. Which should be Nata Otoshi Geri and Kama Barai Geri respectively. You already proved (41236) A.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Quarter-circle-forward is still gonna be a Hadoken.
I thought wrong. I thought he just lost the Shakunetsu Hadoken because it's not his move, but apparently he can't do input Hadokens either, just those kicks.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

Quarter-circle-forward is still gonna be a Hadoken.
I thought wrong. I thought he just lost the Shakunetsu Hadoken because it's not his move, but apparently he can't do input Hadokens either, just those kicks.

Imagine this. N-Air, N-Nair, weak d-tilt, Jab 1,2, Quarter Circle Forward, Shoryuken. High hit combo. Given QCF links to shoryuken.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Can you try: (632) A. and (236) A. as well. Which should be Nata Otoshi Geri and Kama Barai Geri respectively. You already proved (41236) A.

View attachment 180482

236A is Hadoken in Smash, so we're definitely not seeing that one! 632 doesn't work either, but remember there's a light and heavy versions of the Oosoto Mawashi Geri to compensate. Also, if you try 41236 with B you just get Hadoken.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

I'm confused as to what those numbers mean. I assumed they were clockwork motions except some of them don't line up the inputs you were listing so idk.

Are they like the 8 directions on the controller?

Edit: Nvm it's a keypad, I looked it up

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I'm confused as to what those numbers mean. I assumed they were clockwork motions except some of them don't line up the inputs you were listing so idk.

Are they like the 8 directions on the controller?

Edit: Nvm it's a keypad, I looked it up

Sorry, my animu fightan self is peeking out. I find them to be least ambiguous way to list fighting game motions, and thus the best.
This new move really helps make Ken look unique now (though her has a few other unique ones). My only remaining complaint is his voice acting.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

236A is Hadoken in Smash, so we're definitely not seeing that one! 632 doesn't work either, but remember there's a light and heavy versions of the Oosoto Mawashi Geri to compensate. Also, if you try 41236 with B you just get Hadoken.

Have you verified all those moves, or is it just speculation?

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Have you verified all those moves, or is it just speculation?

I spent like 10 minutes in training mode mashing buttons to get that kick, so yeah, verified.

I went again to double check and 632A WORKSSS!!!!!! Nata Otoshi Geri! my bad Malice. If you hold it he cancels into axe kick like the previous move.

And yes, these 2 kicks only work with A, not B.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

I spent like 10 minutes in training mode mashing buttons to get that kick, so yeah, verified.

I went again to double check and 632A WORKSSS!!!!!! Nata Otoshi Geri! my bad Malice. If you hold it he cancels into axe kick like the previous move.

And yes, these 2 kicks only work with A, not B.

Thanks. I speculate that move is optimal when you dash at them, suddenly stop in front of them, and perform that kick. It does bug me that you can't do Kama Barai Geri. That one is just as good as forward smash.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Thanks. I speculate that move is optimal when you dash at them, suddenly stop in front of them, and perform that kick. It does bug me that you can't do Kama Barai Geri. That one is just as good as forward smash.

It's very easy to do anything out of a dash this game, including F-smash, Dtilt (Ken weak dtilt is lolz), Ftilt, jab or whatever. The 632A kick has strong knockback, so I guess it's the most likely to be a surprise KO move.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

It's very easy to do anything out of a dash this game, including F-smash, Dtilt (Ken weak dtilt is lolz), Ftilt, jab or whatever. The 632A kick has strong knockback, so I guess it's the most likely to be a surprise KO move.

Just in case, can you try 412A 41214A and 63236A. And I will be 100% satisfied.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Just in case, can you try 412A 41214A and 63236A. And I will be 100% satisfied.

WTF I've never played in game that has those esoteric motions (And I main Geese in KOF).

Tried every fighting game motion I could think of in addition on those to no results.

By the way, when I said 632A had kill power, I meant the heavy version. The light one has negligible knockback grow and combos into Fmash even at over 100% and into Fair up to like 200%, this move is a fearsome kill confirmer.

Also learned Tatsu can be held to extend the duration (It's very short normally)

EDIT: 632A even combos into Shoryu sometimes at high %s, what the hell is that move, sheesh!

EDIT2: Shoryuken only gets flames if held.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

WTF I've never played in game that has those esoteric motions (And I main Geese in KOF).

Tried every fighting game motion I could think of in addition on those to no results.

By the way, when I said 632A had kill power, I meant the heavy version. The light one has negligible knockback grow and combos into Fmash even at over 100% and into Fair up to like 200%, this move is a fearsome kill confirmer.

Also learned Tatsu can be held to extend the duration (It's very short normally)

EDIT: 632A even combos into Shoryu sometimes at high %s, what the hell is that move, sheesh!

EDIT2: Shoryuken only gets flames if held.

Nata Otoshi Geri (NOG) is totally esoteric, that is why I suggested you try those other moves. I rarely used it in the SFT days. It was completely unless because of Osoto Mawashi Geri(OMG). But Kama Barai Geri(KBG) was useful as heck though. It's a huge loss!

btw.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

Quarter-circle-forward is still gonna be a Hadoken.
I thought wrong. I thought he just lost the Shakunetsu Hadoken because it's not his move, but apparently he can't do input Hadokens either, just those kicks.

Er... I tried this today and it worked.

So then so far, we have:

QCF/236: Hadoken
QCB/214: Tatsumaki Senpukyaku
dp/623: Shoryuken
HCF/41236: Oosoto Mawashi Geri
Idkwhatareverseqcfiscalled/632: Nata Otoshi Geri

Is that all or am I missing anything?

Also, what's the difference between the last 2 moves? I've seen the first but not the second.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

Er... I tried this today and it worked.

So then so far, we have:

QCF/236: Hadoken
QCB/214: Tatsumaki Senpukyaku
dp/623: Shoryuken
HCF/41236: Oosoto Mawashi Geri
Idkwhatareverseqcfiscalled/632: Nata Otoshi Geri

Is that all or am I missing anything?

Also, what's the difference between the last 2 moves? I've seen the first but not the second.

You got it!
But i suggest we try to keep it simple and hope it catches on.
Lets call them OMG Kick, and NOG Kick.
Oh my god kick. And NOG kick 'cause it kicks your opponent in the Nogging.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Er... I tried this today and it worked.

So then so far, we have:

QCF/236: Hadoken
QCB/214: Tatsumaki Senpukyaku
dp/623: Shoryuken
HCF/41236: Oosoto Mawashi Geri
Idkwhatareverseqcfiscalled/632: Nata Otoshi Geri

Is that all or am I missing anything?

Also, what's the difference between the last 2 moves? I've seen the first but not the second.

OMG Kick does a cool spinning roundhouse kick, think if his standing HK in the games. It's strong. Ryu also had this HK in many games.

NOG kick is a high sidekick, Ken doesn't spin and just twists facing forward. I don't remembeer this move from SSF2T. 2 hits and sends up-away very little with a lot of stun.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

OMG Kick does a cool spinning roundhouse kick, think if his standing HK in the games. It's strong. Ryu also had this HK in many games.

NOG kick is a midsection sidekick, a lot his his "crazy kick" that moves forward except this one doesn't move forward. 2 hits and sends up-away very little with a lot of stun.

I looked it up, and the impression I'm getting is that both OMG and NOG are kicks similar to his jab, except both of them autolink into Inazuma Kick (Which I know as "Ken's heavy axe kick from SFV")

It'll be interesting seeing how these moves work, too; considering that in Smash 4, command inputs and light versions of moves all stale the same move (Input Shoryuken stales button Shoryuken, heavy UTilt stales light UTilt, etc.), so I guess both roundhouse kicks will count as his jab? Idk. I'm hoping there ends up being some level of difference in how the moves act though.

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

I assume NOG OMG and Inazuma kick can all be used in a combination since they are inputs. So I can imaging a simple combo being like:
Jab 1,2 > NOG > Inazuma > Fierce Shoryuken = 8-hit combo. Ryu can't do that.

BTW this is important! Chibi-Chan in Street Fighter Turbo, you can combo out of Sweep. Can you do, lets say, a simple Hadouken after a Down_Smash

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I looked it up, and the impression I'm getting is that both OMG and NOG are kicks similar to his jab, except both of them autolink into Inazuma Kick (Which I know as "Ken's heavy axe kick from SFV")

It'll be interesting seeing how these moves work, too; considering that in Smash 4, command inputs and light versions of moves all stale the same move (Input Shoryuken stales button Shoryuken, heavy UTilt stales light UTilt, etc.), so I guess both roundhouse kicks will count as his jab? Idk. I'm hoping there ends up being some level of difference in how the moves act though.

Heavy version of both turns them into the Axe kick yep, the NOG kick comboes into it at any % so you can KO with that.

I can turn on staling and test this theory... Nope, they do NOT stale each other. Neither does weak Dtilt stale strong Dtilt. The nightmare is over!

I assume NOG OMG and Inazuma kick can all be used in a combination since they are inputs. So I can imaging a simple combo being like:
Jab 1,2 > NOG > Inazuma > Fierce Shoryuken = 8-hit combo. Ryu can't do that.

BTW this is important! Chibi-Chan in Street Fighter Turbo, you can combo out of Sweep. Can you do, lets say, a simple Hadouken after a Down_Smash

No, you can't cancel Downsmash into anything.


EDIT: You cannot combo after Inazuma. But you can do Jab1, Jab2, NOG, Shoryuken for 7 hits! Keep in mind NOG doesn't chain into specials, you have to mini-dash forward and link it yourself.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

Heavy version of both turns them into the Axe kick yep, the NOG kick comboes into it at any % so you can KO with that.

I can turn on staling and test this theory... Nope, they do NOT stale each other. Neither does weak Dtilt stale strong Dtilt. The nightmare is over!

Staling isn’t a thing in Training Mode.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Staling isn’t a thing in Training Mode.

You can turn it on in this game!

 

[malicecrossrevolver]

You can turn it on in this game!

Sorry for sounding ignorant, but what is stalling

 

[Shieldlesscap]

You can turn it on in this game!

Woah, that’s actually really cool

Sorry for sounding ignorant, but what is stalling

Basically, when you use a move, it goes into a queue of the last 11 moves you used. If you use a move while the same move is in that queue, it becomes weaker depending on how many times it appeared in the queue.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Woah, that’s actually really cool


Basically, when you use a move, it goes into a queue of the last 11 moves you used. If you use a move while the same move is in that queue, it becomes weaker depending on how many times it appeared in the queue.

Translation: There's a penalty for spamming the same move and it does less % and knockback. It's called "Staling"

Ryu and Ken moves used to stale other different attacks for some reason. I'm glad that's fixed.