Running and not picking up items?

[Daniel Martin]

I just downloaded Project M this morning and when I went in to test it out, one of the major changes I noticed was that you could no longer pick up an item while running. Instead you had to stop right next to it and then pick it up hopefully while no one was attacking you...hopefully. At first I thought this was a glitch until several characters did it.

If it is a glitch I hope it's fixed soon but if it was made intentionally then I hope the people behind Project M can change this.

I know that one of the reasons behind Project M's creation was to make a faster game. But if the game is supposed to be faster, why do I have to slow down and stop to pick up an item? Running and picking up an item allows you to chain that with a follow up combo, depending on where your opponent is. It's easier, and makes for a faster feeling game, otherwise having to stop what I'm doing for an item makes them kinda pointless because it leaves me open for attack.

Lastly, on a completely different note, why do Roy and Mewtwo have caution symbols on their character cards?

 

[standardtoaster]

You can wavedash over an item to pick it up. Diddy is the only one able to pick up items with a dash attack. Press Z when his hands are on the ground.

Mewtwo, Roy, and other alt costumes have the caution symbol because the costumes may lag in doubles.

 

[Vashimus]

It's not a glitch, that's how it was in Melee. Picking up items while running was a Brawl thing. Diddy can still pick up his bananas by pressing grab during his dash attack.

 

[turtletank]

Is there a particular reason for this besides Melee? It can't be a competitive thing since items aren't used anyway, right now it just seems like a handicap on those that can't wavedash.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Items are used in competitive play. Just not randomly spawning ones. There are several characters in the game now that generate their own items, the most notable new ones being ROB and Diddy which both leave stuff on the ground. Enabling characters to pick up items while putting out a hitbox, like with dash attacks or with aerials makes these items much less useful for their respective owners because it worsens their ability to be used as a complement to walling/pressuring.

 

[MLGF]

Items also were very common in early Melee. Like in 2002 items were still huge on the west coast. They got banned due to too much randomness.
Thanks to Project M however, items are a bit more balanced and the can be some item tourneys now with some... limitations.
On a more relevant topic, just learn to wavedash. It's not that hard and honestly makes the game a lot more fun, casual or not. Running and using items feels like a weird afterthought used for SSE which was put into the main game. It's just awkward. Wavedashing to get them is kinda weird to some too, but it's rewarding because you worked for it more, as crazy as that sounds.

 

[smashbro29]

Items also were very common in early Melee. Like in 2002 items were still huge on the west coast. They got banned due to too much randomness.
Thanks to Project M however, items are a bit more balanced and the can be some item tourneys now with some... limitations.
On a more relevant topic, just learn to wavedash. It's not that hard and honestly makes the game a lot more fun, casual or not. Running and using items feels like a weird afterthought used for SSE which was put into the main game. It's just awkward. Wavedashing to get them is kinda weird to some too, but it's rewarding because you worked for it more, as crazy as that sounds.

Really can't argue picking up an item while running is weird when wavedashing is magically sliding across the ground and standing there as if nothing happened.

 

[MLGF]

Oh, but it's so much more fun.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Wavedashing doesn't feel that fun to me, plus since it's technically the best way of moving it makes me wonder why I would ever dash other than DACUSing.

 

[Kally Wally]

Dashing covers ground much, much faster than wavedashing. Trying to move across flat ground without dashing is like trying to drive 60 miles per hour in first gear - it just doesn't make sense. It's good for quick, short-distance repositioning, and platform navigation.

Unless you're Luigi or the Ice Climbers. They're the exceptions.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Yeah you're right, but even after all these years it still feels weird to alternate between dashing and wavedashing so often. I wish dashing by itself was more improved to make wavedashing obsolete, but only in my dreams~

 

[| Kailex |]

Mewtwo, Roy, and other alt costumes have the caution symbol because the costumes may lag in doubles.

They do in singles too, in FD, not all the time though

 

[Vashimus]

Yeah you're right, but even after all these years it still feels weird to alternate between dashing and wavedashing so often. I wish dashing by itself was more improved to make wavedashing obsolete, but only in my dreams~

If you just think of a wavedash as a faster, less-telegraphed and safer substitute for a roll, you'll get the general idea of what it's used for 90% of the time. Repositioning yourself to get better spacing, fake someone out, or get out of a scary situation (wavedash OoS). Dashing is generally the fastest way to move around for a lot of characters. Some characters have terrible wavedashes and they don't bother using it much.

Unless they're playing someone like Luigi or Squirtle, you're not going to see people wavedashing to get quickly from one part of the stage to the other.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

If you just think of a wavedash as a faster, less-telegraphed and safer substitute for a roll, you'll get the general idea of what it's used for 90% of the time. Repositioning yourself to get better spacing, fake someone out, or get out of a scary situation (wavedash OoS). Dashing is generally the fastest way to move around for a lot of characters. Some characters have terrible wavedashes and they don't bother using it much.

Unless they're playing someone like Luigi or Squirtle, you're not going to see people wavedashing to get quickly from one part of the stage to the other.

I see...in that case should rolling be improved as well?

 

[The_NZA]

I see...in that case should rolling be improved as well?

you want the option to move while being invincible to be made better?

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

you want the option to move while being invincible to be made better?

Rolling's less useful than you think. It's really easy to predict where a roll will stop and quickly punish them. Wavedashing is better for counterattacking than rolling as well.

 

[The_NZA]

Rolling's less useful than you think. It's really easy to predict where a roll will stop and quickly punish them. Wavedashing is better for counterattacking than rolling as well.

I realize that. I was speaking in reference to "buffing rolls". I don't see why anyone would want rolls to be stronger.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I realize that. I was speaking in reference to "buffing rolls". I don't see why anyone would want rolls to be stronger.

I don't know, it's just wavedashing is a weird way to move and I feel it's a superior roll in a lot of ways (to reposition quickly, counterattack quickly, etc.), so the better-feeling alternative, rolling, being less useful always felt ironic. In my special place (I know it'll never happen) you would be able to "wavestop" a roll by pressing shield toward the ground, acting as a grounded wavedash. The trade-off, obviously, would be to remove the invincibility on the roll. I think the game would feel better this way, because l-canceling, wavelanding (for Luigi, Squirtle, and Ice Climbers), SHFFLing, etc. wouldn't be affected and putting in their inputs don't feel that weird compared to wavedashing.

But like I said, this is just wishful thinking on my part, so please don't take my posts seriously. I'm only just starting to implement advanced techniques and when I got to practicing wavedashing the whole feel of the game felt weird, to me at least.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I see...in that case should rolling be improved as well?

Wavedash's are supperior to rolls when using them to evade by positioning alone.

Rolls still see plenty of use at a competitive level because they grant invincibility against fast reaching attacks while still positioning.

Wavedashing is just for faster evasion against, say, a Marth fair, that takes a bit of time to reach downward.

 

[The_NZA]

I don't know, it's just wavedashing is a weird way to move and I feel it's a superior roll in a lot of ways (to reposition quickly, counterattack quickly, etc.), so the better-feeling alternative, rolling, being less useful always felt ironic. In my special place (I know it'll never happen) you would be able to "wavestop" a roll by pressing shield toward the ground, acting as a grounded wavedash. The trade-off, obviously, would be to remove the invincibility on the roll. I think the game would feel better this way, because l-canceling, wavelanding (for Luigi, Squirtle, and Ice Climbers), SHFFLing, etc. wouldn't be affected and putting in their inputs don't feel that weird compared to wavedashing.

But like I said, this is just wishful thinking on my part, so please don't take my posts seriously. I'm only just starting to implement advanced techniques and when I got to practicing wavedashing the whole feel of the game felt weird, to me at least.

As you build tech skill and learn how to waveland well, the concept of the wavedash and waveland will feel less "awkward" and random and will start to make more sense.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Lets make rolls jump cancelable so we can wavedash and do shffl's.