Roy's side B

[darkoblivion12]

So before I get into this, I'm going to introduce myself a bit, I'm Pyro. I've been a dedicated Roy main for years, and more recently I've been getting a lot better.

Anyways, I wanted to discuss Roy's side B (DED) and changes that are being made to it in P:M.

In melee, DED is a great tool for a whole bunch of situations. The biggest two situations are catching players in the air and knocking them down or away, and the applying pressure on the shield. For the dev's sake i'm going to hope the first situation is easily implementable. The problems that I can see are going to be with the pressure part. So in Melee, much of Roy's DED shield pokes depending on where a shield is angled, how big it is, and what players are trying to do. Basically in writing this, I'm trying to guarantee that Roy's DED shield poking ability remains in tact.

Just some thoughts I have while using DED:
>> is two pokes to wear through a shield
>^ is for crouch canceling.
>>^ is for poking the top of a shield.
>^^ is for forcing a knockdown. second hit pokes, third one forces a tech chase.
>>v is for poking the bottom of a shield and has some pretty good shield damage
>>> is for small shields and will typically connect is a shield is small enough

4th hit forward is nearly useless for poking because it puts you too close to the opponent.
4th hit down reaches really low and far and has a rapid hit, causing a lot of shield damage

4th hit up is the most important part of this kit. it almost guarantees a poke on the top of someone's shield.

Naturally this is what i'm kind of concerned about. The 4th hit up seems to be changed to marth's brawl animation. Which means it won't have a crazy massive overhead sweeping hitbox.

Anyways for the TL;DR:
I really want to like P:M Roy, but in order for that to happen, his toolkit needs to not take away things that he already has in favor of things that he could have. DED should have the 4th hit forward be Marth's brawl animation and the 4th hit up be Roy's melee overhead sweep (4th hit up).

Anyways, thanks for listening to my thoughts and I hope we get some good discussion on it.

 

[ph00tbag]

DED is largely unchanged. The only things that change are:

4down's animation is changed to be a reference to Sol Badguy's "Gun Flame" special from Guilty Gear.

4back is a new option that turns Roy around to punish rolls or inward SDI.

 

[GunBlaze]

DED is largely unchanged. The only things that change are:

4down's animation is changed to be a reference to Sol Badguy's "Gun Flame" special from Guilty Gear.

4back is a new option that turns Roy around to punish rolls or inward SDI.

Actually, DED has quite a few more animations changed.

 

[ph00tbag]

As I recall, the hitboxes are mostly the same, though.

 

[Sethlon]

4th hit up is the most important part of this kit. it almost guarantees a poke on the top of someone's shield.

Naturally this is what i'm kind of concerned about. The 4th hit up seems to be changed to marth's brawl animation. Which means it won't have a crazy massive overhead sweeping hitbox.

For all intents and purposes, the new PM DED xxx> is functionally the same as the old Melee DED xxx^. The attack still comes from above at the same range that Melee xxx^ does, so it can shield poke in similar circumstances, and also hits high enough to snipe people as they're jumping out of shield. (It also sports a lot more range, so it can catch people further away that they might expect.)

All of the early swipes (being the first 3 attacks) work really similarly to Melee's. >^^ is actually better now, since the weaker meteor is no longer laughably weak (shout outs to getting punished on hit), and the tech chase from it is actually a true tech chase: if they tech in place/don't tech, you can catch them with the new faster xxx^; if they tech away, the long range of xxx> will usually connect; and if they tech behind you, you can follow up with xxx<.

 

[CORY]

4down's animation is changed to be a reference to Sol Badguy's "Gun Flame" special from Guilty Gear.

awwww yeah, son!

 

[darkoblivion12]

For all intents and purposes, the new PM DED xxx> is functionally the same as the old Melee DED xxx^. The attack still comes from above at the same range that Melee xxx^ does, so it can shield poke in similar circumstances, and also hits high enough to snipe people as they're jumping out of shield. (It also sports a lot more range, so it can catch people further away that they might expect.)

All of the early swipes (being the first 3 attacks) work really similarly to Melee's. >^^ is actually better now, since the weaker meteor is no longer laughably weak (shout outs to getting punished on hit), and the tech chase from it is actually a true tech chase: if they tech in place/don't tech, you can catch them with the new faster xxx^; if they tech away, the long range of xxx> will usually connect; and if they tech behind you, you can follow up with xxx<.

Alright, I'll trust you on that. I hope you're right about xxx>.

 

[GeZ]

I've found that The 4Down ender works as a pretty good killer at higher percents, and can lead to surprising kills at low percents due to it's amazing knockback angle.

 

[pressokman]

Long time melee player that played most characters but found Roy a lot of fun. his pm reincarnation feels so good and DED is once again one of his best moves. Just spend some time playing around with his side b and wrote some notes about what I found. This experiment was done vs a Roy computer but most of the combos can be tweaked depending on the di and what weight the opponent is. Some of these are pretty standard while others seem to be really situational and completely dependant on di and tech chasing.

Roy's Forward-b
1-fast, can jump cancel it
2-up. hits close/ knocks up
-forward. hits far away
3-up. hits up. knocks up/hits airborne down (stop the jump oos, start techchase)
-forward. hits close (finisher)
-down. hits far away (shield pressure)
4-up. hits up (kills floaties)
-forward. hits far away
-down. hits far away (shield pressure)
-back. hits people that smash di in.

combos.f.u.d.b.
fff (Standard finisher) [all percent]
ffff (situational finisher/ di in) [low percent]

fuf (standard finisher) [all percent]
fuff (standard finisher) [low percent
fufd (standard finisher) [low percent]
fufu (situational finisher/di in) [low percent]
fufb (situational finisher/smash di 2u in) [all percent]

fuu (meteor finisher near edge) [all percent]
fuu.f.u.d.b. (di/tech dependant)

fud (standard/shield pressure) [ all percent]
fudd (extended shield pressure) [all percent]
fud.f.u.b (weak hit/di dependant) [low/mid percent]

ffu (meteor by edge)(knockup at low, knockdown at high) [all percent]
ffuu (finisher after knockup/ di up) [ low percent]
ffuf (finisher after knockdown or knockup/ di away)
ffud (finisher after knockdown/ di away)
ffub (finisher after knockdown/ tech in)

ffd (stong hit finisher/weak hit combo) [all percent]
ffdu (finisher after weak hit/ di in) [high percent]
ffdf (finisher if weak hit/ di away) [situational]
ffdd (just shield pressure)

 

[SSS]

4down's animation is changed to be a reference to Sol Badguy's "Gun Flame" special from Guilty Gear.

Aha!!! I knew it. That makes me happy.

 

[PegasusKnt]

Has anyone else noticed that it seems strangely difficult to make the second hit come out when the first one hits? On Whiff, you can make it come out just about instantly, but on hit, it seems like you can only continue DED if you wait a little bit. I'm actually wondering if this is a bug.

 

[GunBlaze]

Has anyone else noticed that it seems strangely difficult to make the second hit come out when the first one hits? On Whiff, you can make it come out just about instantly, but on hit, it seems like you can only continue DED if you wait a little bit. I'm actually wondering if this is a bug.

It's due to the htilag.

 

[PegasusKnt]

It's due to the htilag.

What do you mean?

 

[Shadic]

The timing on SideB changes if you hit or not, because there's hitlag when you connect with the move.

 

[PegasusKnt]

The timing on SideB changes if you hit or not, because there's hitlag when you connect with the move.

Whatever the reason, it's silly that there needs to be such a long delay between hits. It makes it easy for an opponent at low % to crouch cancel and hit you out of DED. And yet DED seems like it would be perfect to use at low %s. Below 25 or so, Hit 4 (forward) lunges Roy far forward enough that it can actually connect after landing the first 3 hits of DED.

 

[GeZ]

You can't really complain about hitlag considering it's universal. And I've only experienced someone crouch cancel DED once. It happens fast enough that it can take someone by surprise, it's just not to be used too often, especially on characters with good CC games.

 

[PegasusKnt]

You can't really complain about hitlag considering it's universal. And I've only experienced someone crouch cancel DED once. It happens fast enough that it can take someone by surprise, it's just not to be used too often, especially on characters with good CC games.

Most of the 4th hits of DED have been changed from melee. I assume the developers did this because they expected these moves to be used. As it is, DED has to be done so slowly that none of them are usable. On block they are all easily punished, and in the games I've been playing in 3.0, I have not once yet been able to combo into one. Also, my play partners have crouch canceled out of DED several times in our games. I'm getting the impression that it's not very hard.

Roy is a fine character even without DED, but if he's going to have this move, I think it should at least work the way it's supposed to.

 

[Deus]

Was the change to Roy's first side b intentional that made it so I can no longer "cancel-out" projectiles? This is one thing I really liked on Roy (Marths wouldn't cancel projectiles) because it was a really fast way to get a missle/turnup/boomerang/bomb etc out of the way while grounded or airborne and had very minimal frames of lag after using it. Possibly I'm the only person who cared because I was forced to play against a Samus most of the time?

 

[GunBlaze]

Was the change to Roy's first side b intentional that made it so I can no longer "cancel-out" projectiles? This is one thing I really liked on Roy (Marths wouldn't cancel projectiles) because it was a really fast way to get a missle/turnup/boomerang/bomb etc out of the way while grounded or airborne and had very minimal frames of lag after using it. Possibly I'm the only person who cared because I was forced to play against a Samus most of the time?

Wat? It can still cancel projectiles. It's not trascendent like Martha's

 

[Deus]

Wat? It can still cancel projectiles. It's not trascendent like Martha's

...hmmm currently for me it's acting just like Marth's and whiffing right through things like missles...

 

[ChestyLaRue]

Scrub question but how exactly is the DED performed on the GC controller? Is it just: thumbstick up , down, left, right + "b" then another or same thumbstick variation + "b" / REPEAT up to four? Is there a certain timing to it?

I'm not sure how to word this question

 

[FireBall Stars]

You can use the left stick + B or A (only on the second attack and onwards). You can just hold forward continue to press the buttons in the right timing to get the forward variation of the attack.

On the second attack and onwards you can hold up to get the the up variations, on the third and fourth you can use the hold down variations and on the fourth only you can use the hold back variation.

Since you were not sure about what you're asking I explained the attack as whole, I hope it was useful.

 

[Mera Mera]

Edit: Sorry, thought I found a weird glitch with Roy's side B but I was mistaken.