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Roy's our boy! But I need another character.

Remo

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As of lately I've been getting heavy into competitive play. While I love Roy to death and I love the style of play he requires I've been having troubles with larger stages and been losing to Falco/Wolf/MewTwo, and Marth.

Could any of my fellow Roy mains suggest a Co-Main/Pocket Main to try and pick up?
 

Kolbin

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Anyone you have fun playing. But the great thing about P:M is you don't need to pick up a new character for certain matchups. I play against both Wolf and Marth all the time, and I usually win. If you're having a hard time it's not a new character you need, just a new outlook on the matchup.
 

Remo

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Anyone you have fun playing. But the great thing about P:M is you don't need to pick up a new character for certain matchups. I play against both Wolf and Marth all the time, and I usually win. If you're having a hard time it's not a new character you need, just a new outlook on the matchup.
Wolf isn't that hard. I've learned to space my game out more against him and set up the combos well since he falls like a brick. Marth however just has more tools and the Marth's I face around here just know Roy too well. If I remember right Roy V Marth is always in Marths favor if their skill level is the same. Falco isn't too bad if I can get a good amount of grabs into other combos. My ledge guard game is pretty good. I think for Marth I need to not be so hyper-aggressive. Thank you for the advice!
 
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SoggyEagle

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I would disagree with Kolbin, partially -- while it can certainly help to generate a new outlook on a matchup, it's still a good idea to play an additional character that allows you some flexibility.

Then, again, I already can't just play one (or two, or three) characters.

My Roy has issues against my friend's Zelda, so I have Link or Sheik or ... etc.
 

Kolbin

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Wolf isn't that hard. I've learned to space my game out more against him and set up the combos well since he falls like a brick. Marth however just has more tools and the Marth's I face around here just know Roy too well. If I remember right Roy V Marth is always in Marths favor if their skill level is the same. Falco isn't too bad if I can get a good amount of grabs into other combos. My ledge guard game is pretty good. I think for Marth I need to not be so hyper-aggressive. Thank you for the advice!
No problem man! I can agree the Marth matchup is difficult, but it's inspiring to me to get on that next level. I tend to play hot and cold in the matchup, if you're 100% aggressive Marth will catch on, and he can really punish. Conversely, if you play really defensively, you'll most likely eat more than your fair share of tippers. Personally, I get more ground by dissecting my opponent, not the character. Anyway that's my two cents.

I would disagree with Kolbin, partially -- while it can certainly help to generate a new outlook on a matchup, it's still a good idea to play an additional character that allows you some flexibility.

Then, again, I already can't just play one (or two, or three) characters.

My Roy has issues against my friend's Zelda, so I have Link or Sheik or ... etc.
You misunderstood me. You shouldn't need to change characters for a matchup, but I absolutely believe in being adaptable. Taking on a new character will round out and generally better your play as a whole. I used to main mario, but I switched because I reached a real learning block because he's only really good at developing a basic solid play. I switched to Dorf/Roy because both rely heavily on advanced tech to move around and combo well. I'm definitely not saying you should only have one character.
 

Remo

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No problem man! I can agree the Marth matchup is difficult, but it's inspiring to me to get on that next level. I tend to play hot and cold in the matchup, if you're 100% aggressive Marth will catch on, and he can really punish. Conversely, if you play really defensively, you'll most likely eat more than your fair share of tippers. Personally, I get more ground by dissecting my opponent, not the character. Anyway that's my two cents.
I agree in the opponent entirely. Everyone has a different play style. I really appreciate your input!
 

mimgrim

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As someone who likes to try and play with 2 characters in a Smash game, I've been messing around with Link, Zard, Ness, and MK.

However I am leaning more towards Link atm for my 2nd character. He seems like he can compliment Roy quite well.
 

skwaag5233

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Me and a friend were talking about how to get a secondary and his basic thesis was that you should get a secondary that can cover roy's weaknesses when necessary. In Roy's case, that would mainly be safer approach and being very combo-able.

Marth is a decent pickup IMO since he has a very similar moveset to Roy and has a lot of the things that Roy lacks, mainly being on the whole safer to play because of the tipper sweetspot.

Mario is a pretty easy for anyone. His kit is really easy to use and he does a fair bit of damage (8 damage per fireball wtf).

I've been messing around with Kirby for a bit because I think his kit is hella troll and fun to use. Against certain characters, he can be played much more safer than Roy can and because of his light weight it's easier to get out of combos (and easier to get KO'd lolololol). However, I've really only been playing him in doubles because I think Kirby is better in doubles than Roy and haven't really explored him in singles.
 

YaBoy

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I've picked up wolf as a pocket main for my roy. Iunno if I would recomend it, because both are combo food, but they have similiar play styles without sharing faulty match ups. for example, I can handle ivysaur a lot easier with wolf than Roy. Iunno if thats a match up thing, or just in my head but its there. I agree with "play who you like" sometimes just not being roy for a match can help you feel like its no longer a bad match
 

Remo

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As someone who likes to try and play with 2 characters in a Smash game, I've been messing around with Link, Zard, Ness, and MK.

However I am leaning more towards Link atm for my 2nd character. He seems like he can compliment Roy quite well.
I've messed with Link a bit myself but haven't liked the style he needs. He's a damn good character though in PM.

Me and a friend were talking about how to get a secondary and his basic thesis was that you should get a secondary that can cover roy's weaknesses when necessary. In Roy's case, that would mainly be safer approach and being very combo-able.

Marth is a decent pickup IMO since he has a very similar moveset to Roy and has a lot of the things that Roy lacks, mainly being on the whole safer to play because of the tipper sweetspot.

Mario is a pretty easy for anyone. His kit is really easy to use and he does a fair bit of damage (8 damage per fireball wtf).

I've been messing around with Kirby for a bit because I think his kit is hella troll and fun to use. Against certain characters, he can be played much more safer than Roy can and because of his light weight it's easier to get out of combos (and easier to get KO'd lolololol). However, I've really only been playing him in doubles because I think Kirby is better in doubles than Roy and haven't really explored him in singles.
Marth is my main in Melee so I know his meta game rather well. I've thought about picking the blue-haired princess up again but something just feels awkward when I play him now. ChuDat has some solid Kirby play in singles. And Roy is combo food <3

I've picked up wolf as a pocket main for my roy. Iunno if I would recomend it, because both are combo food, but they have similiar play styles without sharing faulty match ups. for example, I can handle ivysaur a lot easier with wolf than Roy. Iunno if thats a match up thing, or just in my head but its there. I agree with "play who you like" sometimes just not being roy for a match can help you feel like its no longer a bad match
I mained Wolf and Brawl and I love his fast aggro style. I just never could get waveshining or combo's Out of Shine fast enough. Thanks everyone for their input. I've got a few characters to play with!
 

victinivcreate1

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As of lately I've been getting heavy into competitive play. While I love Roy to death and I love the style of play he requires I've been having troubles with larger stages and been losing to Falco/Wolf/MewTwo, and Marth.

Could any of my fellow Roy mains suggest a Co-Main/Pocket Main to try and pick up?
Top Tiers in PM-:foxmelee::sonic::snake::lucario::lucas::mario2::pit::mewtwopm::diddy::metaknight:
Pick one.
 

Chromewhip

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honestly, I've found that snake compliments roy really well. If you're opponent is better at out agressing you or camping you out, switch to snake and out smart them, or out camp them. I find it especially will mess with your opponent, because usually they are stuck in a auto-combo mindset after winning against roy, and it's easy to outsmart them at this point.
 

Frost | Odds

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VIctin's post pretty much nailed it: those are mostly the guys that'll complement Roy's matchups well - particularly where you're having problems. His list omits Samus and Link who I also think are really good, and also complement Roy well.

Toon Link is also p. good on large stages, but probably not as good as post-puberty Link.
 
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Remo

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honestly, I've found that snake compliments roy really well. If you're opponent is better at out agressing you or camping you out, switch to snake and out smart them, or out camp them. I find it especially will mess with your opponent, because usually they are stuck in a auto-combo mindset after winning against roy, and it's easy to outsmart them at this point.
I like Snake but I feel myself using the same few moves over and over and become too predictable. I need to work on my variety with Snake.

VIctin's post pretty much nailed it: those are mostly the guys that'll complement Roy's matchups well - particularly where you're having problems. His list omits Samus and Link who I also think are really good, and also complement Roy well.

Toon Link is also p. good on large stages, but probably not as good as post-puberty Link.
Out of the list he gave, which do you think fit well with an aggressive style? I don't mind camping but I prefer to stay away from those situations.

Out of the list I am leaning towards:lucario: :mario2: :metaknight: :pit:
 

Frost | Odds

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Mario and Pit aren't very good for all-out aggression. You'll probably be better served by Lucario, MK, or Lucas if that's your style.

Wolf would probably be a pretty decent pickup as well. My intuition is that he plays a lot like Roy, but has a very different MU spread. Could be wrong though
 
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Remo

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Mario and Pit aren't very good for all-out aggression. You'll probably be better served by Lucario, MK, or Lucas if that's your style.

Wolf would probably be a pretty decent pickup as well. My intuition is that he plays a lot like Roy, but has a very different MU spread. Could be wrong though
I don't like the feel of Lucario but I've been testing MK and I love him. Wolf has some great MU but my fingers aren't fast enough for his tech yet. Pit has been feeling good but I need to study more video to figure him out. Thanks for your input!
 

Brim

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I've actually been picking up Lucario. I'm not sure how other Roy mains feel about him however.
 

Kirito-

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Liked mentioned previously in this thread, Marth would be a pretty good secondary. I main both Marth and Roy and they cover each others matchups pretty well. You said you're having problems with Falco/Wolf which Marth wrecks imo.

The initial problem I ran into when using both is when you switch from one to another, your timing on some of the moves can be thrown off a little but that wasn't really a problem after I played for about an hour.

Other than that, you could just pick a top tier lol
 

Remo

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Liked mentioned previously in this thread, Marth would be a pretty good secondary. I main both Marth and Roy and they cover each others matchups pretty well. You said you're having problems with Falco/Wolf which Marth wrecks imo.

The initial problem I ran into when using both is when you switch from one to another, your timing on some of the moves can be thrown off a little but that wasn't really a problem after I played for about an hour.

Other than that, you could just pick a top tier lol
As of lately I haven't had any troubles with Fox/Wolf/Falco. I've learned to deal with them. Marth/Mewtwo/Mario/Diddy have been my only troubles and not really big ones at that aside from a good Mewtwo.
 

Frost | Odds

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Mewtwo is broken; nobody's going to give you a much better shot than Roy, even though our m2 mu is like 70:30 his favor. For that you may want to just tough it out until the next balance patch.
 
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Remo

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Mewtwo is broken; nobody's going to give you a much better shot than Roy, even though our m2 mu is like 70:30 his favor. For that you may want to just tough it out until the next balance pathc.
I wouldn't say Mewtwo is broken but he definitely needs to reworking and that I won't deny.
 

Kirito-

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I just went and read a couple of the threads in the Mewtwo section and it's funny how some M2's think Roy is good against M2, and some Roy's say M2 is good against Roy.
 

Kirito-

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This is an easy way to tell which mewtwos are really bad and/or biased. :o
Agreed. From first glance, anyone can tell Mewtwo's range and teleport options wreck Roy.
 
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menotyou135

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As of lately I've been getting heavy into competitive play. While I love Roy to death and I love the style of play he requires I've been having troubles with larger stages and been losing to Falco/Wolf/MewTwo, and Marth.

Could any of my fellow Roy mains suggest a Co-Main/Pocket Main to try and pick up?
I have no idea about Marth v Mewtwo, but you could just switch to marth for those matchups. He's not too much different from Roy. Marth is one of the few characters who does well vs spacies, and marth v marth is even because it's a mirror.

An alternative would be to pick up a spacie yourself since they excel in almost all matchups.
 

Kirito-

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I have no idea about Marth v Mewtwo, but you could just switch to marth for those matchups. He's not too much different from Roy. Marth is one of the few characters who does well vs spacies, and marth v marth is even because it's a mirror.

An alternative would be to pick up a spacie yourself since they excel in almost all matchups.
Spacies get wrecked by Mewtwo though which is the main problem he's been having.

Marth would be a good secondary because Marth v Mewtwo isn't nearly as bad as Roy v Mewtwo.
 

menotyou135

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Spacies get wrecked by Mewtwo though which is the main problem he's been having.

Marth would be a good secondary because Marth v Mewtwo isn't nearly as bad as Roy v Mewtwo.
Funny, most mewtwo's I have seen say Roy is harder to deal with than marth because of Roy's kill options.
 

Kirito-

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Funny, most mewtwo's I have seen say Roy is harder to deal with than marth because of Roy's kill options.
Serious question, are those Mewtwo good?

Marth has a much easier time fighting Mewtwo with his spacing, speed, and quick kills via tipper. I main both Marth and Roy so I know that they both die as soon as they are hit off stage but M2 has a harder time edge guarding Marth which leads to Marth coming back more times than Roy.

Also, I fail to see how Roy can get in consistently on a good M2 that has proper spacing and utilizes hover properly. Just my two cents from my experience versing Mewtwo with both characters...
 

Remo

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I feel like Marth and Roy have about the same chance. Personal Opinion after watching Emukiller take a very good Mewtwo to game 5 with his Roy before being forced to switch at PM in the PM.

Who does have a good shot at Mewtwo if any?
 
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Frost | Odds

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We do. So do Link, Tink, Diddy (if m2 sucks at bananas), Marth, Ivysaur (probably), Snake, Lucas (I think), Mario, Pit, maybe ROB.

Beyond that it gets sketchier imo. Of those, my roommate complains the most about Pit and Lucas, though our local scene isn't huge so ymmv.
 

Remo

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I've read on Diddy forums that M2 is one of their worst Matchups. Especially if M2 is good at nanners. Which isn't really that hard.
 

Kirito-

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I know it's pedantic and dumb, but this word doesn't mean what you think it means.

That out of the way, does Marth's fthrow-> tipper fsmash work unconditionally vs m2?
Yeah I know. I was typing vs on my phone and I must have put "vsi" and it must have auto corrected with that.

Fthrow -> Tipper Fsmash works depending on DI. You can link a couple of Fthrows together at 0% and then the M2 will DI out (usually) where you can catch him with an Fsmash (tipper). At around 50% (where Fsmash usually kills), it is assured unless the Mewtwo DIs straight out but you can catch the Mewtwo with Dthrow -> Pivot Fsmash if they are not prepared for it.

Basically, no. It is DI dependent.
 

menotyou135

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Serious question, are those Mewtwo good?

Marth has a much easier time fighting Mewtwo with his spacing, speed, and quick kills via tipper. I main both Marth and Roy so I know that they both die as soon as they are hit off stage but M2 has a harder time edge guarding Marth which leads to Marth coming back more times than Roy.

Also, I fail to see how Roy can get in consistently on a good M2 that has proper spacing and utilizes hover properly. Just my two cents from my experience versing Mewtwo with both characters...
It's mostly from the M2 forum that I see it. However ther is a decent M2 player down here who commented that he has a hard time against roys in general because I played him as roy.
 
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Kirito-

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It's mostly from the M2 forum that I see it. However ther is a decent M2 player down here who commented that he has a hard time against roys in general because I played him as roy.
Hmm, that's strange.. It might be MU inexperience? I've read that Marth is good against Mewtwo too.. Especially in the Mewtwo MU thread since I basically read all of it.
 
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Charmilio

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Me and a friend were talking about how to get a secondary and his basic thesis was that you should get a secondary that can cover roy's weaknesses when necessary. In Roy's case, that would mainly be safer approach and being very combo-able.
Roy's pretty much the only character I play seriously and I've noticed this in almost all my matchups; Roy's approach game is alright but his horrendous offstage game doesn't lend well to how combo-oriented he can be. I find that Ivysaur makes a great secondary, similar principles of proper spacing, good combo game if you're at all used to roy's dair. great approach options with razor leaf and nair, bair's great for closing in and getting away. Amazing off stage presence as well, and arguably the one stronger fully-charged B than roy/ike. But if you want to go more balls to the wall, then Lucas would probably be my next suggestion.
 

NQuad1Zero

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Can Roy not uthrow chain wolf?
I'm not sure if there's some sort of outdated reply limit as some other forums have (like dont reply to posts 2-3 months old etc), but I just joined and wanted to share my input.
Yes I'm certain he can, but you basically have to perfectly predict his DI, In training mode where there's no DI (I think) wolf will always fall behind you, so you must tap the opposite direction WITHOUT dashing and regrab, or if the wolf DIs away you have to input a dash grab to catch him. I'm basically sure that the human reaction speed isn't THAT fast because I find it actually really hard to tell if the wolf's gonna land infront (without DIing away) or behind the Roy character until he's started to fall, which by then you're too late to input for a grab and he'd just tech away.

However, against no DI (I think, haven't tried on a human player) or Bots (from experience this basically works all the time), upthrow => turnaround grab => upthrow => turnaround grab until about 20%, then upthrow => up tilt (which will nearly literally swing wolf back to the front) and regrab, but seems to only work once. Then probably just Upsmash/shorthop backair. Idk
 
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