Roy's kill setups

[mattpauly24]

I'm a Roy main, and lots of times I have trouble setting up for kills. Any advice or setups anyone has is appreciated!

 

[AlaGORY]

With Sethlon (and to an extent Lunchables) molding Roy's BNB game play, I highly highly recommend you watch them play against each other and in tournaments on youtube. I will give you my thoughts on Roy and what to do at those higher percentages.

I'm also trying to main Roy being a long time Marth player as far back as melee and have found similar issues. The thing about Roy is that he is not an easy character to use. His strengths come out when you have fast reaction times and 300+ APM. He relies heavily on L Cancelling for his combos and wave dashing for spacing, so be sure to keep in mind that you are trying to main a character that is on the more difficult end of the spectrum to use effectively. This is only compounded when you take into consideration his mediocre recovery.

With that said, when you've racked up an opponent, down tilt into BAir seems to be the go to option, but spacing into his FSmash is also incredibly effective and even just his uncharged neutral B has surprising KB. Roy's uncharged neutral B has as much KB as Ganondorf's FAir. His DSmash is also very impressive and I've seen Sethlon hit confirm with a single hit of Roy's Dancing Blade into his DSmash for a kill. But in all honesty Roy's kill options are kinda small. They're powerful and effective in the right hands but I have trouble finishing people sometimes as well. The best advice I can give is to play to Roy's strengths in his incredible combo potential, his mix ups and overall ability to keep his opponents on the back foot. You do that effectively and the openings for his kill options kinda just present themselves.

I hope I've helped. Really do check out Sethlon's tournament matches though. He amazes all the time.

Smash on!

 

[Smolder]

With Sethlon (and to an extent Lunchables) molding Roy's BNB game play, I highly highly recommend you watch them play against each other and in tournaments on youtube. I will give you my thoughts on Roy and what to do at those higher percentages.

I'm also trying to main Roy being a long time Marth player as far back as melee and have found similar issues. The thing about Roy is that he is not an easy character to use. His strengths come out when you have fast reaction times and 300+ APM. He relies heavily on L Cancelling for his combos and wave dashing for spacing, so be sure to keep in mind that you are trying to main a character that is on the more difficult end of the spectrum to use effectively. This is only compounded when you take into consideration his mediocre recovery.

With that said, when you've racked up an opponent, down tilt into BAir seems to be the go to option, but spacing into his FSmash is also incredibly effective and even just his uncharged neutral B has surprising KB. Roy's uncharged neutral B has as much KB as Ganondorf's FAir. His DSmash is also very impressive and I've seen Sethlon hit confirm with a single hit of Roy's Dancing Blade into his DSmash for a kill. But in all honesty Roy's kill options are kinda small. They're powerful and effective in the right hands but I have trouble finishing people sometimes as well. The best advice I can give is to play to Roy's strengths in his incredible combo potential, his mix ups and overall ability to keep his opponents on the back foot. You do that effectively and the openings for his kill options kinda just present themselves.

I hope I've helped. Really do check out Sethlon's tournament matches though. He amazes all the time.

Smash on!

What he said, except there's one more piece of advice I would like to add.

A great kill setup is actually having the knowledge of where your opponent would like to go in a pressure situation. When you pressure someone, see how they like to react to the pressure, and once you get them back into a similar pressure situation, punish them heavily for going for the same option. There are many times where I have died to someone while they're at high percent, chased them to the edge, and waited for them to shield --> roll behind me so I could get a fsmash for an easy kill.

So basically just combo somebody, see how they try to escape your combo (or any situation that involves pressure), and then punish them for choosing the same escape path again.

 

[Binary Clone]

With Sethlon (and to an extent Lunchables) molding Roy's BNB game play, I highly highly recommend you watch them play against each other and in tournaments on youtube. I will give you my thoughts on Roy and what to do at those higher percentages.

I'm also trying to main Roy being a long time Marth player as far back as melee and have found similar issues. The thing about Roy is that he is not an easy character to use. His strengths come out when you have fast reaction times and 300+ APM. He relies heavily on L Cancelling for his combos and wave dashing for spacing, so be sure to keep in mind that you are trying to main a character that is on the more difficult end of the spectrum to use effectively. This is only compounded when you take into consideration his mediocre recovery.

With that said, when you've racked up an opponent, down tilt into BAir seems to be the go to option, but spacing into his FSmash is also incredibly effective and even just his uncharged neutral B has surprising KB. Roy's uncharged neutral B has as much KB as Ganondorf's FAir. His DSmash is also very impressive and I've seen Sethlon hit confirm with a single hit of Roy's Dancing Blade into his DSmash for a kill. But in all honesty Roy's kill options are kinda small. They're powerful and effective in the right hands but I have trouble finishing people sometimes as well. The best advice I can give is to play to Roy's strengths in his incredible combo potential, his mix ups and overall ability to keep his opponents on the back foot. You do that effectively and the openings for his kill options kinda just present themselves.

I hope I've helped. Really do check out Sethlon's tournament matches though. He amazes all the time.

Smash on!

I feel like this is kind of unrepresentative of Roy, actually.

Roy is not a hard character to use. Relying heavily on L cancelling for his combos is something that applies to pretty much every character in the game, and there are many, many characters that require much more control and/or APM than Roy, like Fox, Falco, Wolf, Squirtle, Lucas, Ness, even Falcon... The list goes on. Even Dedede is arguably more technical than Roy. Roy is an extremely non-technical character. The closest thing he has to character-specific tech is his fantastic ledgedash, and maybe you could consider DED timings and mixups to be tech.

The real thing that makes a Roy player good or bad is spacing, which is something literally everyone has to deal with, and Roy typically has in his favor with his huge range.

If you're having trouble killing with Roy, you're probably not playing optimally. The biggest thing Roy has over Marth is just consistency in killing options. Roy has an abundance of reliably kill conversions on the majority of the cast.

His aerial killmove in bair is something you can rely on pretty well, but you'll likely find that, especially against fastfallers, you can combo into fsmash fairly easily anyway. Grounded dair -> fsmash, dtilt -> fsmash on spacies, or even falling uair -> fsmash often work depending on percent and fall speed. When they're at too high of a percent for those conversions to work, just replace the fsmash with bair and you have conversions on the lighter half of the cast.

On very floaty characters, you can kill with DED xxx^ (typically xx^^) or with dsmash or usmash if you can catch them with it. CC dsmash is very powerful, and the hitbox for dsmash also goes deceptively high, so you can often catch opponents off guard while they're above you since dsmash is so fast and strong.

You also have sweetspot dair for spikes and sourspot dair for gimps while edgeguarding.

 

[G13_Flux]

^that is everything i would have said, including roy being relatively easy to pick up and having consistent kill options. the only thing different i might say is that while hes not terribly difficult to pick up, he does have some very technical optimizations that appear at higher levels of play. connecting with his spike is rather technical, as is footstooling, which is largely underdeveloped even in games from sethlon and lunchables. his spike and footsool work very together for mix ups, gimps, and tech chases and are both really tight in spacing to connect with. something should be said for the level of spacing required for high level play and how technical it can actually get.

I might also add something to say on the effectiveness of edge guarding properly with him while were talking abou killing. while roy cant go as far as others do offstage, hes still got great tools for coverage of the ledge. you can go decently far out and slap someone with a fair to secure a kill. if you learn to use his side b stall in conjunction with ledge dropping and jumping offstage, you can make good use out of this. something interesting to note is that his fair tip has a better angle and more KB at higher percents than fair's sweetspot. additionally, he can run off with his neutral b for good coverage of the ledge with good power as well.

directly from the ledge, you can ledge hop dair, bair or uair, all of which are very rewarding. bair can outright kill an opponent or hit them pretty far from the ledge at least. even the sourspot can slap them away at a decent angle. if you u are using dair, it has amazing coverage right around the ledge, and has 3 possibilities that can happen. if you hit with the tip, it hits at an extremely low angle (37 degrees, as opposed to 40 for fair and bair tips), which makes it a great gimping tool. if you hit with the sweetspot, it pops them up for a fsmash, bair, or neutral b. if you hit with the super sweetspot, it spikes. if you choose to uair, it offers coverage for high recoveries that dair doesnt offer, and again, sets up for fsmashes, bairs, or neutral bs.

 

[ApocalypticAids]

could someone possibly explain DED to me? very curious.

 

[ApocalypticAids]

Also, Flux, do you mean when roy is on the ledge, to avoid pressure, he can use those options or when your opponent is on the ledge?

 

[G13_Flux]

could someone possibly explain DED to me? very curious.

DED is Roy's side b. You can tap b in succession for a total of four possible hits if you want, with the later hits usually being the most powerful.

Also, Flux, do you mean when roy is on the ledge, to avoid pressure, he can use those options or when your opponent is on the ledge?

I mean when your opponent is off the stage and recovering, and you get on the ledge. From there, you can let go of the ledge to drop down, and immediately do a double jump, then aerial. Its a good way to protect the ledge from recovering opponents

 

[Brim]

I feel like this is kind of unrepresentative of Roy, actually.

Roy is not a hard character to use. Relying heavily on L cancelling for his combos is something that applies to pretty much every character in the game, and there are many, many characters that require much more control and/or APM than Roy, like Fox, Falco, Wolf, Squirtle, Lucas, Ness, even Falcon... The list goes on. Even Dedede is arguably more technical than Roy. Roy is an extremely non-technical character. The closest thing he has to character-specific tech is his fantastic ledgedash, and maybe you could consider DED timings and mixups to be tech.

The real thing that makes a Roy player good or bad is spacing, which is something literally everyone has to deal with, and Roy typically has in his favor with his huge range.

If you're having trouble killing with Roy, you're probably not playing optimally. The biggest thing Roy has over Marth is just consistency in killing options. Roy has an abundance of reliably kill conversions on the majority of the cast.

His aerial killmove in bair is something you can rely on pretty well, but you'll likely find that, especially against fastfallers, you can combo into fsmash fairly easily anyway. Grounded dair -> fsmash, dtilt -> fsmash on spacies, or even falling uair -> fsmash often work depending on percent and fall speed. When they're at too high of a percent for those conversions to work, just replace the fsmash with bair and you have conversions on the lighter half of the cast.

On very floaty characters, you can kill with DED xxx^ (typically xx^^) or with dsmash or usmash if you can catch them with it. CC dsmash is very powerful, and the hitbox for dsmash also goes deceptively high, so you can often catch opponents off guard while they're above you since dsmash is so fast and strong.

You also have sweetspot dair for spikes and sourspot dair for gimps while edgeguarding.

I disagree about Roy not being a technical character [I might be using the wrong term however]. Roy has to be very on point with his play, and while I agree that he really doesn't need it to be played, he needs technical skills to be played at a higher level. Just to throw my two cents in, Roy has some very unsafe moves even if L-canceled, almost every one is punishable. Even his downtilt is quite punishable.
Regardless, I would have to say Roy is more a character about being a "smart player". It's also fair to point out the man that is in my opinion, the best in the world Roy, and who did the majority of the work on Roy in PM has stated Roy lacks reliable killing options, which I heavily agree on.
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Disagreements aside, down-tilt is really all you need for most of the kill setups Roy has. Pivot smashes including running down smashes can do wonders as well though. I don't dislike Roy's spike as a kill move, but boy is it risky, the sheer fact you actually have to be in the other character's face just to land the sweetspot is aggravating enough. It is a strong gimp move however off-stage and can be a superb option OOS (Out of shield). Honestly if I can help it I'd rather just get a combo into a flurry of fairs, and just try to edge-hog and kill if they can make it back.

 

[G13_Flux]

I disagree about Roy not being a technical character [I might be using the wrong term however]. Roy has to be very on point with his play, and while I agree that he really doesn't need it to be played, he needs technical skills to be played at a higher level. Just to throw my two cents in, Roy has some very unsafe moves even if L-canceled, almost every one is punishable. Even his downtilt is quite punishable.
Regardless, I would have to say Roy is more a character about being a "smart player". It's also fair to point out the man that is in my opinion, the best in the world Roy, and who did the majority of the work on Roy in PM has stated Roy lacks reliable killing options, which I heavily agree on.
-
Disagreements aside, down-tilt is really all you need for most of the kill setups Roy has. Pivot smashes including running down smashes can do wonders as well though. I don't dislike Roy's spike as a kill move, but boy is it risky, the sheer fact you actually have to be in the other character's face just to land the sweetspot is aggravating enough. It is a strong gimp move however off-stage and can be a superb option OOS (Out of shield). Honestly if I can help it I'd rather just get a combo into a flurry of fairs, and just try to edge-hog and kill if they can make it back.

Roy wouldn't be top tier right now if he lacked reliable killing options. I don't care if both sethlon and lunchables came here and told me that; I would heavily disagree. I think what might have been said, and what you're referring to, is consistency in kill power. In other words, many of Roy's attacsk deal very low KB, with a certain few moves having the KB to kill. This requires you to play carefully to box your opponent into an optimal spacing, which can finally lead to a kill. Compare to ganon, gw, ike, or bowser. The mere act of covering space with many different moves can lead to a kill. They have tilts, smashes, aerials, and specials that all cover space well and reliably secure kills. In other words, the KB needed for reliable kill power is evenly distributed throughout their move sets, whereas Roy's is confined to more specific options

 

[Brim]

Roy wouldn't be top tier right now if he lacked reliable killing options. I don't care if both sethlon and lunchables came here and told me that; I would heavily disagree. I think what might have been said, and what you're referring to, is consistency in kill power. In other words, many of Roy's attacsk deal very low KB, with a certain few moves having the KB to kill. This requires you to play carefully to box your opponent into an optimal spacing, which can finally lead to a kill. Compare to ganon, gw, ike, or bowser. The mere act of covering space with many different moves can lead to a kill. They have tilts, smashes, aerials, and specials that all cover space well and reliably secure kills. In other words, the KB needed for reliable kill power is evenly distributed throughout their move sets, whereas Roy's is confined to more specific options

Before I give anymore of my opinion, what is the top tier characters in your opinion? Mine are (in order) : Sheik, Falco, Fox, Ike, Falcon (Maybe?).

 

[G13_Flux]

The order really isn't important to me, and I don't necessarily believe there is a reliable way to determine exact order. Fox, wolf, rob, roy, and, lucario are the 5 I'd put in top. Sheik, tink, and falco would possibly be there as well, but also border high tier, which is where I'd probably put them instead.

 

[Taytertot]

(Edit: my computer had an issue when posting this the first time, it doesnt seem like it posted after refreshing the page, hopefully this isnt a double post)

maybe it isnt that roy has difficulty getting kills but that learning how to put opponents in situations where roy can get relible kills has a large learning curve? In other words learning how to use roys tools to control the pace of a match so that kills open themselves up.

Any character whos is based heavily on fundamentals is easy to pick up but hard to master since one cant rely on tricks or gimmicks.