Roy Guides Project

[Mr Cats]

Hello, Roy Boards. This is my first post here, though I'm not as new to the Smash community as my profile is. I would like to start a project here on the Project M Roy Forums. This would involve the writing and compiling of a series of guides covering a range of important topics in an attempt to push Roy's metagame forward.

My initial hesitation with this project was that the Project M metagame is still relatively young and underdeveloped, but I'm starting to see this as even more of a reason to get this project going.

Here's what I'm thinking:
We recruit some reputable PM players to write up rough versions of guides covering material such as spacing, frame data, move summaries, match-ups, etc... I am willing to do research on tournament results and try and track down some qualified players for this job. Then, we can organize these guides (either by an index of links or in one thread) into a unified format (I'm willing to take charge of this). I believe that this community project would be instrumental in recognizing the state of Roy's Metagame, making advancements toward a more perfected playstyle, and developing the PM Roy community by serving as a resource for rising PM players.

Let me know what you guys think. If there seems to be some general support, I will get started.

To start things off, here are some areas that I think we should cover:
Frame Data (I see this is already covered)
Counterpick Theory
Match-Up Information (I see this is being discussed)
Training Methods
General Gameplay
Zones and Spacing
Combos and Follow-Ups

 

[iwinatu]

Weird that no one's responded to this yet haha. Sounds like a good idea, and with all the information in once place, it could be really beneficial for new people, and also those veterans looking to freshen up on some fundamentals

 

[Crin]

I've been looking to find a guide on Roy. Since I couldn't, I've just been playing him a lot.

Something I've been doing with him is Spacing some SHFFL Nairs and racking up damage to finish with an Fsmash, Nuetral B or DED. Maybe it's bad to use DED though? I've been sidestepped, and grabbed immediately as punishment before. It works up until about 70% damage, then you can throw in some air game. I've found a really good stage for Roy is Fountain of Dreams for doing this. Yoshi's Story is also pretty good.

Gotta work on Recovery game even if it is pretty horrid.

 

[YaBoy]

I've been looking to find a guide on Roy. Since I couldn't, I've just been playing him a lot.

Something I've been doing with him is Spacing some SHFFL Nairs and racking up damage to finish with an Fsmash, Nuetral B or DED. Maybe it's bad to use DED though? I've been sidestepped, and grabbed immediately as punishment before. It works up until about 70% damage, then you can throw in some air game. I've found a really good stage for Roy is Fountain of Dreams for doing this. Yoshi's Story is also pretty good.

Gotta work on Recovery game even if it is pretty horrid.

do you try and kill using the 3rd or do you go to the 4th part of DED? personally ive had the best experience by always trying to kill using DED >>> relying only on DED>>^> as a mix up.


as for OP :

disclaimer: I suck. everything i say is just my own personal experience, so a lot is probably tinted with personal bias.


Frame Data: uhh, iunno what to really discuss about it, so ima use this as an excuse to discus what i think are his best his moves. Dtilt and Ftilt are by far the most important grounded movs on him. Ftilt lets you out range *soooooo* many things its not even funny, and dtilt just starts every combo ever. everything else is pretty straight foward. Fair//Nair//Uair all are combo tools as is Utilt. Bair is your strongest aerial kill option, though dair does exist i guess (I dont think its reliable, i use it only in combos). Dsmash is really strong when sweet spotted and comes out super fast, but large ending lag keeps it from really working with the rest of his kit. Up smash is in the same boat *IMO*. I've heard roy's dacus is amazing, but i dont know. Fsmash is kill move. DED is amazing and theres a thread that went in depth on it, so i'll leave it there. i find myself going to nB for kills more than Fsmash, personally. Blazer is better recovery than people give it credit for - really roys issue with recovery coems from his falling speed. DED, Jumps, magnet hands and blazer are all decent recovery options. I find Counter to be mostly for flash. Marth's punishes aggressive paly really wel, but Roys starts slower, lasts for a shorter duration and has longer ending lag. I dont find the *huge* counter damage it does to really justify that, but its better than not having a counter i suppose.

Counterpicks: Im unsure if this is "what roy counter picks" or "what counter picks roy" so ima discuss the first. I think roy *DOMINATES* large, heavy characters like bowser and ganondorf and DK. their huge hurtboxes, falling speed, and weight lets you do brainless combos (my personal favorite being able to *just* utilt bowser till like ~70% (disclaimer, my friend could just suck at di)) and you use your absurd kill potential to get them off the stage(if not out right kill them) and use that good old fire emblem edge guard (Fsmash. Fsmash. Fsmash.) until they do die.

Match ups: in my experience, ivysaur is the toughest matchup roy has, with link being a close second. Projectiles are a pain in the ass, but these two are unique in that they also have disjoints of roughly equal or greater than size, so you cant just get overly aggressive like you might against some one like zelda.

training method: I just practice my tech for ~30 minutes a day. Im out of school so thats bumped to about an hour a day. I wish i had more people to play with ;'( cause i think that's the best way to go about it.



Im not qualified to discuss the last 3 all that much.

 

[Crin]

do you try and kill using the 3rd or do you go to the 4th part of DED? personally ive had the best experience by always trying to kill using DED >>> relying only on DED>>^> as a mix up.

It's 3rd or 4th depending on percent and which one actually connects the hit.

I'll add a bit. Do note, I'm not a reputable smasher, nor do I claim to be. I've only been playing Smash competitively for about 2 months now.

Counterpicks: I still have trouble facing people with projectiles that just don't let me approach them (Fox, Falco, Zelda, Shiek, Link) and when I do get in range, if I don't connect an attack, I get punished hard. I'm able to go toe-to-toe with characters that don't have projectile spam or massive hit-stun. (Marth, Captain Falcon come to mind.) I do agree that Roy LOVES facing heavy characters, so I won't expand on that.

Training Method: I play against CPUs a lot, but my friend comes over every couple days and we smash it out. I've found playing against level 1s at 99 stock and just practicing techs/combos. You can increase the level as you wish, but I like the level 1. When my friend comes over, I practice my mind games and combos while he's DIing. It still works with some adjustments. I can get away with spamming SHFFL Nairs and wavedashing to keep up as a combo. Plan ahead and try to throw in some air game. Uair is great for chaining.

 

[Chu2|DFM]

I remember Sethlon posting in the video thread that he was going to do a video on Roy stuff. It might've been a guide similar to what you're planning, so I would suggest touching base with him if he doesn't reply in this topic.

 

[BertEast]

I'm actually writing a guide right now on paper. If I like the final result, ill post it

 

[G13_Flux]

training methods: practice your DACUS, practice being consistent with DED, practice b-reversing DED, and practice pivots as well. Pivot fsmashes especially, but also pivot dtilts. Be comfortable on the ledge (WLing from the ledge, attacking from the ledge, distances that up b will sweetspot). also, practice CCing as early as possible out of a run so that you can do quick dtilts.

zoning and spacing: there is a false consensus that since roy has weaker tipped attacks, his spacing game isnt good. This couldnt be more wrong however. roy has many useful ranged attacks that are great for poking with the tip to stay safe on block. fair, DED, neutral b, ftilt, dtilt, jab, nair (on smaller grab range characters), and even dair can be spaced on shield and still be safe. fair, his tilts, and DED are the ones you will most commonly use for approaching. particularly, fair and ftilt sport some of the best range out of all characters and non-projectile attacks in all of smash. the fact that his tips do a bit less damage, means that he can actually get some useful combos out of them. sure, the increased damage doesnt give him the frame advantage that marth has, but in all honesty, that extra frame advantage isnt needed for safety, because i can guarantee you that not a single person should ever be able to punish an l cancelled, tipped fair, ftilt, or dtilt on shield from roy anyways. tipped ftilts set up for tech chases on FFers (how valuable is THAT against people like fox and falcon), and tipped fairs can set up straight into dash attacks, tech chases, and even dtilts at low percents).

in addition, roys sweetspots can actually be spaced too provided you arent playing large grab range characters. the sweetspot on roys attacks consists of everything on his sword BESIDES the very tip, meaning that its quite easy to get close to the max spacing on his attacks, and still hit with the sweetpots.

spacing with things like uair and utilt from below is also another important skill with roy, as the tips of those attacks allow for some reliable follow ups even at quite extreme percents.

spacing DED is extremely important to stay safe. most DED combos are about -9 between hits, which gives the opponent a 2 frame window to grab you (which is actually difficult to pull off consistently, especially if you are good with mixing up your hits and ending the sequence early).

dair is a great combo tool, and provides ok coverage from below. if you space it correctly coming down, you can run away after the l cancel and stay safe on shield.

Combos and follow up: fairs, uairs, dairs, dtilts, utilts, grabs > fsmashes and bairs. figure the rest out lol. DEDs too. they lead into everything.

 

[FlashingFire]

Tagging @Sethlon in response to Chu2|DFM's post.

Also, if this project does start to move forward, I wouldn't mind making short videos to demonstrate certain combos/techniques like Fthrow > DACUS, etc.