Roy as surprise counterpick?

[Link24a]

i went to a local last week and... well i didnt do so well. but when i lost, i didnt lose bad. i feel like if i chose a secondary it would help. roy is my secondary but he needs polish, but i think using lack of knowledge of the character to my advantage i might be able to get a free (scubby) game.

how much do you think i could use lack of knowledge to an advantage? do people know roy too well, or is he too similar to marth to confuse someone enough?

 

[kingPiano]

In general if you aren't getting the job done with Marth then it's not really going to be any better for you with Roy.

The only surprises Roy has are his more powerful counter, OHKO on Jiggs reverse blazer, and his different D-tilt. His slower Up-B can also mess with opponents edgeguard timing if they have been playing against a Marth for a bit. But a skilled player won't have much trouble and will adapt fast even if they are unfamiliar.

IMO it's always a much better idea to have a radically different character as a backup so that the opponent has a hard time adjusting. If you main Marth, then Samus, Ganondorf, Luigi would be great back ups since they aren't seen as often and they differ a lot.

 

[Link24a]

In general if you aren't getting the job done with Marth then it's not really going to be any better for you with Roy.

The only surprises Roy has are his more powerful counter, OHKO on Jiggs reverse blazer, and his different D-tilt. His slower Up-B can also mess with opponents edgeguard timing if they have been playing against a Marth for a bit. But a skilled player won't have much trouble and will adapt fast even if they are unfamiliar.

Yeeeeeah, that's pretty much what I expected. Those differences you listed would probably be the only changes in my play. (though I do use DED, but not sword dance) I didn't mean it as in to use him for when an opponent is legitimately outplaying me by a significant margin. The people I lost to, I just barely lost to, and I feel as though if I'd just switched it on them game 3 I could've taken the set.

 

[kingPiano]

Yeeeeeah, that's pretty much what I expected. Those differences you listed would probably be the only changes in my play. (though I do use DED, but not sword dance) I didn't mean it as in to use him for when an opponent is legitimately outplaying me by a significant margin. The people I lost to, I just barely lost to, and I feel as though if I'd just switched it on them game 3 I could've taken the set.

Ken used to actually couterpick Roy back in the day to mess with people and he found some success in the lack of MU knowledge, but then again he's Ken.

Yea DED would definitely used more often since it's better than Sword Dance, but for a good spacie or falcon that wouldn't matter since they'd be SHFFLing Roy to oblivion. Most people know about Roy's bad combo weight even if they know nothing else.

Maybe if you never used Counter with Marth and you usually played more aggro, then switched to Roy and started playing defensively and using Counter more it could throw them off. I've seen Roy mains go from Marth to Roy and have a bit more success (and vice versa) but I'd assume that's just because they put in a LOT more time with Roy.

 

[Link24a]

Maybe if you never used Counter with Marth and you usually played more aggro, then switched to Roy and started playing defensively and using Counter more it could throw them off. I've seen Roy mains go from Marth to Roy and have a bit more success (and vice versa) but I'd assume that's just because they put in a LOT more time with Roy.

That's a pretty good idea.

Concerning his weight/falling speed/recovery, I'd say that the people I was facing would probably be unable to capitalize on that significantly. I wouldn't expect the Marth I faced to start up throw/up tilt comboing me

 

[supercopper64]

 

[Link24a]

Already done. Also spam

 

[Waluigi is too big]

I been planing to run Iceies and a surprise roy.

I don't really know how that would work.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

To make Roy a useful counterpick, you must first start with using counter.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

@ L Link24a

If you're looking for a useful Secondary for Marth you could try Fox / Samus. Fox because he covers most of Marth's bad match-ups and Samus because she's radically different in terms of her options and sports a hefty amount of projectiles. I can go into the specific advantages / disadvantages of both if your interested?

 

[90007000]

Ya Fox OP.

 

[Link24a]

@ L Link24a

If you're looking for a useful Secondary for Marth you could try Fox / Samus. Fox because he covers most of Marth's bad match-ups and Samus because she's radically different in terms of her options and sports a hefty amount of projectiles. I can go into the specific advantages / disadvantages of both if your interested?

I'm doing significantly better at said local in both sets and friendlies nowadays so I don't really think I need one that bad. I just got 13th just last one (36 player bracket)

I posted this right after my first tournament lol

I have more than enough fox knowledge imo and don't really feel the need to figure out samus

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

Ya Fox OP.

Not trying to feed into 20xx or anything, I'm just trying to look at it from a purely statistical stand-point. Marth does well against heavy characters that he can combo relentlessly on flat stages and who, due to the length of his sword and his speed, cannot easily escape said combos. On floaties who have higher knock-back and who are more difficult to combo Marth's game plan doesn't work quite as effectively. Contrast to Fox's more viable arsenal of single-hits like sweet-spot Bair and U-smash with the ability to kill floaties off the top at low percent and you get a character that's able to cover the characters Marth struggles against.

Character Match-up Thread

Spoiler: The Chart

 

[LSDX]

why counterpick with him when you can go into round one super hot w/ the fresh money match / bracket combo