Rosalina Questions

[Keytrun]

I've posted in other threads to no avail. I'm curious about a few things, but firstly: is separating luma and rosalina not advised in competitive play? I've watched some of dabuz's matches and I haven't seen him separate luma at all. Isn't moving her away advantageous? Sandwich combos? Stage control?

Also, what do you all think about ever going directly from a jump button to the a button? Rolling your finger from X to A. Its the same motion you would make for a jump cancel item throw (tlink JC). That way the second you're rising in the air you and luma immediately start the nair animation. Is that something commonly done? I have some other questions but I've been up for nearly 24 hours and can't think of them at the moment. That first one is really important, though. I really need to know if I should be practicing with luma apart or if I should just always keep her with me. Thanks

 

[kk1127]

I usually keep luma with me, otherwise you lose your (human?) shield and rosa loses a lot of her KO potential. unless I can get a luma snipe.

EDIT: it's also easier for opponents to kill luma when she's away

Going jump to attack by rolling your finger rolling I feel doesn't have much uses with rosalina, it's a better option to do a fast fall into lunar landing. Doing the finger roll would be best for a character like diddy to hit a grounded opponent with an u-air

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I actually had a small discussion with Dabuz about this on Reddit (although it was focused more around the specific case of edgeguarding) and basically it's because Luma covers a lot more options when it's linked to Rosalina than when it's sent out. Plus the usual "Luma is vulnerable by itself" thing.

 

[Parcheesy]

Instantly nairing out of shield is actually fairly useful; the first hit of luma nair comes out super quick.

Playing with Luma separate is definitely an option. I'd argue the reason many competitive Rosalina players shy away from it is because it's extremely high risk, for debatable reward, and when you're facing down pools against a huge number of players, you need to have consistency. Personally, I find this playstyle vital in winning certain matchups where the Luma's lifespan is actually extended by keeping it away from Rosalina. Hell, the metagame is still very early in development, so go ahead and make up your own mind on the subject based on testing. Play with it untethered a lot online, and find out what works and what doesn't; if you come to the conclusion that it's not worth using at all, just stop, simple as that.

 

[icraq]

i think there's a time and a place for it but it's hard to say exactly when those times are, so i just play it safe and keep em teamed up.

luma shot is pretty good tho. so i use it every so often and i know the setups i can get off of the two being separated but i'll try to recall luma asap when it's safe.

 

[Keytrun]

Thank you, lovely kittens. I appreciate the answers

Also, what's the best way to jump out of shield into instant nair?

Also - does anyone know if dabuz uses c stick for tilts or smash? What about other top rosalina players? What's better for rosalina?

 

[Zonderion]

Thank you, lovely kittens. I appreciate the answers

Also, what's the best way to jump out of shield into instant nair?

Also - does anyone know if dabuz uses c stick for tilts or smash? What about other top rosalina players? What's better for rosalina?

As the others have said, it can be situational to play with them untethered. I actually try and mix it up to stay unpredictable. One stock I will play tethered and the next I will play some tethered and some not tethered. Usually when the opponents get around 70 to 80 % I will put Luma right past the edge of the stage to safely cover edge guard options and then Rosa can cover the stage.

As far as jumping oos, if you do not use the right trigger, or z button, you can map that button to attack, so you can quickly jump with your thumb, and attack with your index.

No idea which setup dabuz uses with cstick. I currently use smash, but I'm thinking of changing it to tilts.

Anyone have a preference?

 

[Dabuz]

Can someone explain precisely to me why cstick tilts are good? For reference I have it set to smashes so I can spam our glorious frame 7 invincible upsmash.

 

[Smasher89]

Can someone explain precisely to me why cstick tilts are good? For reference I have it set to smashes so I can spam our glorious frame 7 invincible upsmash.

perfectpivottilts(uptilt is frame 2 for luma if i recall correcly)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ_ZzAvSFis
I read that the cstick behaves differently when used as smashattacks compared to attacks to not get stuck in the same way but havent tested it to confirm it.

 

[Zonderion]

I know there was a video about captain Falcon where for some reason, the c stick set to smash, lowers his momentum when c stick is used for aerials. When set to tilts, he keeps his momentum.

Spoiler

I don't know if this affects Rosalina or not.

 

[ChikoLad]

I know there was a video about captain Falcon where for some reason, the c stick set to smash, lowers his momentum when c stick is used for aerials. When set to tilts, he keeps his momentum.

Spoiler

I don't know if this affects Rosalina or not.

Pretty sure it's a character wide thing.

There is a bug where by holding the C-Stick in a direction rather than flicking it while it is set to Smash causes your character to quickly lose all aerial momentum, even if you're still holding the left stick in a direction. Since it is pretty strict about what counts as a "flick", people change it to tilt instead.

 

[Dabuz]

It affects everyone but only if you hold the cstick.

Edit: Ninjad

 

[icraq]

perfectpivottilts(uptilt is frame 2 for luma if i recall correcly)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ_ZzAvSFis
I read that the cstick behaves differently when used as smashattacks compared to attacks to not get stuck in the same way but havent tested it to confirm it.

is frame 3, was originally reported as frame 2 but it was found that all inputs have a 1 frame input delay for luma.

that being said, approaching with a perfect pivot utilt initially sounds pretty bad but i'm wondering if you've found a use for it. luma doesn't move forward in a beneficial way with perfect pivoting. i do seem to recall utilt being able to slide with perfect pivot though.

i personally dont see a use for rosa to use cstick tilts. it might be helpful if you're doing a lot of retreating Fairs or something, i'm not even sure that's a good idea, but i dont really use the cstick very often for aerials.

 

[DanGR]

Perfect pivots are useful for retreating after jab spacing on block in anticipation of forward rolls. It's safer than just standing there after the jab because they might use an out of shield option to hit you. And it's more useful than simply running back because you maintain those standing options.

They block jab1 or 2 and you retreat perfect pivot. They jump and whiff an aerial? Punish with fsmash/ftilt or w/e you can manage. They roll? Punish with both Luma/Rosa hit fsmash. They don't do either? Do this a bit more and you can condition them into rolling away after the block. More jab spacing is a solid mixup after the perfect pivot.

 

[Parcheesy]

Not sure if other people are doing this, but against opponents who shield the rapid jab while Rosalina and Luma are tethered will just deplete their shield until it pokes through. For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to move them backwards when both are hitting. Her jab is amazing.

Edit:
Granted, they can still roll out after the first or second jab, so it's not a completely safe option, but it's definitely a fun alternative to a grab against shield reliant opponents. I'm also trying absurdly hard to get shield breaks with this character on For Glory. She's probably the hardest character to accomplish it, but it's at least somewhat possible. ^^

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It should probably be noted that fighters can shield-grab Rosalina, even while the Luma is present.

 

[Parcheesy]

During the first two or the rapid one? Personally, I've never had it happen to me once it starts shredding their shield. I'd be happy to pop into a match and test it quickly if you have the time.

Edit:
Nevermind. I'm going to be playing a few with my friend, so I'll have him test when it's possible to shield grab.

Did the testing, and it seems incredibly hard to shield grab, even when Rosalina is at point blank. spaced a Luma length away seems to be safe from being shield grabbed. Feel free to test it yourself, but this option feels incredibly good against shields.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This did happen to me against a CPU level 1 Bowser. Rosalina and Luma did their standard attack combo, Bowser shielded the hits, and then he successfully grabbed Rosalina before any more attacks were executed.

Basically, having the Luma right next to Rosalina is not guaranteed to save you from getting grabbed, especially against CPUs.

 

[Zonderion]

Not sure if other people are doing this, but against opponents who shield the rapid jab while Rosalina and Luma are tethered will just deplete their shield until it pokes through. For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to move them backwards when both are hitting. Her jab is amazing.

Edit:
Granted, they can still roll out after the first or second jab, so it's not a completely safe option, but it's definitely a fun alternative to a grab against shield reliant opponents. I'm also trying absurdly hard to get shield breaks with this character on For Glory. She's probably the hardest character to accomplish it, but it's at least somewhat possible. ^^

Yes, it is difficult with Rosalina, but apparently breaking an opponents shield when they are on the edge will cause them to fall off and die. I managed this against a yoshi. Not sure if I saved the replay or not.

 

[Parcheesy]

Yes, it is difficult with Rosalina, but apparently breaking an opponents shield when they are on the edge will cause them to fall off and die. I managed this against a yoshi. Not sure if I saved the replay or not.

Best way to earn style points is to break a shield, then wave them off the stage with your magic wand ( Luma recall windbox ). I'll live the dream eventually ( Problem is, people in For Glory don't shield things :/ ). I'm glad you've proven it can be done though, it gives me hope.

This did happen to me against a CPU level 1 Bowser. Rosalina and Luma did their standard attack combo, Bowser shielded the hits, and then he successfully grabbed Rosalina before any more attacks were executed.

Basically, having the Luma right next to Rosalina is not guaranteed to save you from getting grabbed, especially against CPUs.

Guess it's no where near as safe as I assumed, and probably something best reserved for styling on people and For Glory. Oh well.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Guess it's no where near as safe as I assumed, and probably something best reserved for styling on people and For Glory. Oh well.

CPUs can do stuff that human players can't replicate anyway; they make shield-grabs look easy.

 

[Lavani]

Best way to earn style points is to break a shield, then wave them off the stage with your magic wand ( Luma recall windbox ).

Oh my god I got a shieldbreak right at the ledge last night with the rapid jab and I didn't even think of this

now it's never going to happen again ;_;

 

[kk1127]

I think dabuz uses smash for c stick. You can ask on his stream twitch.tv/dabuz18

He's pretty good about talking to his viewers

EDIT: he uses c stick smash. I asked him today
he said its so he can do jump cancel up smashes

 

[Garde Noir]

For doubles play (what I do more often) Luma slightly away with your partner covers three zones instead of two, and makes it more difficult for approach. This does not work nearly as effectively in singles play, where Luma works really well tethered to Rosalina.

As the others have said, it can be situational to play with them untethered. I actually try and mix it up to stay unpredictable. One stock I will play tethered and the next I will play some tethered and some not tethered. Usually when the opponents get around 70 to 80 % I will put Luma right past the edge of the stage to safely cover edge guard options and then Rosa can cover the stage.

As far as jumping oos, if you do not use the right trigger, or z button, you can map that button to attack, so you can quickly jump with your thumb, and attack with your index.

No idea which setup dabuz uses with cstick. I currently use smash, but I'm thinking of changing it to tilts.

Anyone have a preference?

I also prefer c-stick on tilt because it allows Rosalina to have quicker attacks. Smashes are punishable from what I've found (With the exception of the amazing Up-smash), and don't have as consistent killing potential as up-air juggling or edgeguarding (again, sans up-smash), so I use them situationally. Having quicker access to tilts has just made my Rosalina faster overall.

 

[Zonderion]

I think I may try it on tilts and see how I like it. I usually use it for smashes, so it may take a while to get use too. Thanks for the input.

 

[Garde Noir]

I think I may try it on tilts and see how I like it. I usually use it for smashes, so it may take a while to get use too. Thanks for the input.

It does take a bit. I'm not sure I can go back. I really like the ability to quick land D-tilt. It's something that when you press the directional stick to quick land, will usually come out as a down smash, which has similar range but a lot more ending lag. I also adore Up-tilt, and though up-smash is great, I like up-tilts ability to be a quicker juggle. Without the tilt stick, I found I had to quite literally stop before I could do it, and that wasted time. I like that I can run now and quickly do it where I need. And it's not too hard to perform smashes with the standard Direction stick as well, so it doesn't take as much adjusting as you'd think.

 

[Zonderion]

It does take a bit. I'm not sure I can go back. I really like the ability to quick land D-tilt. It's something that when you press the directional stick to quick land, will usually come out as a down smash, which has similar range but a lot more ending lag. I also adore Up-tilt, and though up-smash is great, I like up-tilts ability to be a quicker juggle. Without the tilt stick, I found I had to quite literally stop before I could do it, and that wasted time. I like that I can run now and quickly do it where I need. And it's not too hard to perform smashes with the standard Direction stick as well, so it doesn't take as much adjusting as you'd think.

That is what I was thinking, is that it will allow running tilts. Does down on the c stick while running still do the dash attack? Or is that option limited to when the c stick is set to smashes?

 

[Parcheesy]

That is what I was thinking, is that it will allow running tilts. Does down on the c stick while running still do the dash attack? Or is that option limited to when the c stick is set to smashes?

The C-stick when set to tilts will always do a dash attack when running. With it set to smashes, you get the convenience of not needing to jump cancel your running up smashes ( C stick up will always up smash ), but that's mostly a matter of convenience.

 

[Ingoro]

To come back to the TC's question, I haven't read all the replies but a few of the earlier ones were pretty on point. Nair with Luma is really quick, if you actaully move forward you can hit them with Luma's nair startup and 'catch' them with Rosalina's ending hitbox of nair.

To tether or not tether,
This is a though question, you must think of the possibilities of what could happen, at first I was really keen on playing tethered only because I feel she's such a sandbag because of her height and floatyness. However, there's situations for everything,

Examples of when I use them untethered:
Offstage: I send out luma with a charged Luma shot offstage, this is to try to hit them far away since the distance is pretty good, a potential KO if they mess up but, this is also to force them to recover low, so I make Luma guard in air and await them with a potential Dair from Rosalina her self.

While your opponent is landing:
This is mainly to invoke fear that there's two potential damage sources coming out when your opponent is landing. I let Luma out the shortest possible range, so that I can potentially hit my opponent with a Dsmash.

There's many, many more things to explore with Rosalina though, we're the beginning of her meta.

 

[Keytrun]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Now - for tournament stages what is best for her? Wouldn't longer stages always be better? The longer the stage the lower the chance of an easy knock off for luma, right?

I have a tournament to play on Saturday in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't expect to win, but I want to give it my all. Last tournament I went toon link and did decently. I was told to switch to rosalina for a match against captain falcon and I lost in losers (lost initially against as toon link vs olimar and peach; didn't know the matchup at all). When I played that same captain falcon in friendlies later as tlink I dominated him. I'm just trying to figure out who I should use toon link for instead of rosalina. Also, as Rosalina, I want to try and stick to stages that have a solid wall going up to the top so I can slide all the way up with my up b. I can't for the life of me figure out the recovery. Sometimes I hit up b then back, even though I'm facing forward, and I'll launch the other direction instead of straight up! Does anyone have insight to that as well?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Now - for tournament stages what is best for her? Wouldn't longer stages always be better? The longer the stage the lower the chance of an easy knock off for luma, right?

I have a tournament to play on Saturday in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't expect to win, but I want to give it my all. Last tournament I went toon link and did decently. I was told to switch to rosalina for a match against captain falcon and I lost in losers (lost initially against as toon link vs olimar and peach; didn't know the matchup at all). When I played that same captain falcon in friendlies later as tlink I dominated him. I'm just trying to figure out who I should use toon link for instead of rosalina. Also, as Rosalina, I want to try and stick to stages that have a solid wall going up to the top so I can slide all the way up with my up b. I can't for the life of me figure out the recovery. Sometimes I hit up b then back, even though I'm facing forward, and I'll launch the other direction instead of straight up! Does anyone have insight to that as well?

Your Launch Star woes are due to b-reversing the move. That's when you do a special move and then quickly tilt the stick in the opposite direction you're facing. This will cause the character to turn around as they perform the special. In Launch Star's case, this is usually fatal for obvious reasons. The timing required for a purely vertical ascent is very tight and if you do it too early, you'll not only b-reverse but launch yourself fairly horizontally to boot, which is a recipe for disaster when offstage. Similarly, it's tricky to b-reverse it on purpose but not go for the horizontal angle, such as when you used your double jump in an edgeguard and need to recover to the ledge.

It would not surprise me if mastering the Launch Star angles turned out to be one of Rosalina's most technically demanding inputs.

 

[Garde Noir]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Now - for tournament stages what is best for her? Wouldn't longer stages always be better? The longer the stage the lower the chance of an easy knock off for luma, right?

I have a tournament to play on Saturday in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't expect to win, but I want to give it my all. Last tournament I went toon link and did decently. I was told to switch to rosalina for a match against captain falcon and I lost in losers (lost initially against as toon link vs olimar and peach; didn't know the matchup at all). When I played that same captain falcon in friendlies later as tlink I dominated him. I'm just trying to figure out who I should use toon link for instead of rosalina. Also, as Rosalina, I want to try and stick to stages that have a solid wall going up to the top so I can slide all the way up with my up b. I can't for the life of me figure out the recovery. Sometimes I hit up b then back, even though I'm facing forward, and I'll launch the other direction instead of straight up! Does anyone have insight to that as well?

I have a discussion about Stages here => http://smashboards.com/threads/rosalina-and-luma-wii-u-stage-discussion.385644/#post-18391415