Rosalina and Luma, the sinking ship?

[Ignis Thoron]

Initially this character was an OP threat that eventually earned nerfs across half of her kit though despite this, in my opinion so many things are sour for her. I have this feeling that over time this character will move done further and further into mid-high tier tbh.

-Her most negative match-ups are against the top tiers of the cast.
-Not only is she hard to learn, but her skill ceiling is damn insane, her light nature makes spacing such a high priority to a point where it's almost too difficult to get a good hang of this character.
-People are learning the match-up, people are seeing that she is terrible at returning to the stage from above and are taking advantage of it.
-Perfect Pivoting literally just makes the game harder for her, she doesn't benefit anyway near as much as some of the cast.
-Also the fact that Luma has no invincibility when it spawns leads to many situations where you're alone and it spawns and immediately dies.

Although I main this character through and through, I have this feeling that she might be one of the more overrated characters like Greninja or Bowser and that I should pour more time into Sheik who I'm currently learning. And as time goes on, her character may become increasingly weak. I honestly hope not as she's fun as heck to play, though I really don't see much going for her anymore. What do you guys think?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

While the competitive scene is still developing, we're simply doing our best to see which characters Rosalina can clobber easily, and which ones give her the most trouble. Keep in mind though that battling in For Glory isn't the best way to determine match-ups, due to online lag. As such, local competitive tourneys are basically the main way to go in this situation.

 

[MezzoMe]

Look at my signature.
According to you I shouldn't be using any of them.
If you like a character, then that character will be the one you will do the best with.
I myself, when the 0.9b version came out, I used the characters that looked top tier to me, since I didn't like any of the characters, in particular I played Ichigo, but then I decided to switch to my current main and I find him natural, requiring me a week or so to multishine, ledge drop->double jump->laser/illusion->regrab and other stuff with a keyboard (learning to drillshine the day i started using him).

It's as simple as it appears; and that concepts extends to everything.
At very last, you might have a high tier character as a poket (assumed you don't like using that same character as much as Rosalina), but again, Rosalina will hardly ever become the new japanese so you shouldn't worry about that too much.

 

[Parcheesy]

Initially this character was an OP threat that eventually earned nerfs across half of her kit though despite this, in my opinion so many things are sour for her. I have this feeling that over time this character will move done further and further into mid-high tier tbh.

-Her most negative match-ups are against the top tiers of the cast.
-Not only is she hard to learn, but her skill ceiling is damn insane, her light nature makes spacing such a high priority to a point where it's almost too difficult to get a good hang of this character.
-People are learning the match-up, people are seeing that she is terrible at returning to the stage from above and are taking advantage of it.
-Perfect Pivoting literally just makes the game harder for her, she doesn't benefit anyway near as much as some of the cast.
-Also the fact that Luma has no invincibility when it spawns leads to many situations where you're alone and it spawns and immediately dies.

Although I main this character through and through, I have this feeling that she might be one of the more overrated characters like Greninja or Bowser and that I should pour more time into Sheik who I'm currently learning. And as time goes on, her character may become increasingly weak. I honestly hope not as she's fun as heck to play, though I really don't see much going for her anymore. What do you guys think?

I'm just a little confused that you're saying she has a high skill ceiling, yet is also mid tier. You'd think the two would go hand and hand as the metagame continues to grow. At some point in this game's lifetime, it might be entirely reasonable to expect tournament Rosalina players to memorize some crazy Luma combos to the point of doing them regularly. Tiers should be made to judge the strength of the character's toolkit, not how popular, or easy they are to be successful with.

That said, I'd be perfectly happy if people considered Rosalina mid tier, and not a threat. It would definitely be a nice change to have a lot less character salt at tournaments...

A couple of other notes:
- Having most negative matchups against popular characters is pretty standard. The important thing to note is she also has some really good matchups against other top tiers as well ( personally I think the Ness / Robin matchups are hugely in her favor ).

- The Luma spawn thing is an issue, but not something you can't play around. It would be too easy to say 'just don't get combo'd while Luma is spawning', but the better answer is predicting when and where it will pop up, and try to make that space as safe as possible. Her aerials are superb spacing tools that can create a zone where the Luma has time to tether back onto Rosalina.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina doesn't have any straight up negative match-ups from what I can tell. While she saw nerfs in 1.0.4, she saw buffs too. Basically, they toned Rosalina herself down a bit, but strengthened the options Rosalina & Luma have as a pair, specifically when they are not linked.

She is still regarded as the second best character by a lot of people, only character beating her on the tiers is Diddy Kong. Which is ironic, because the Rosalina VS Diddy match-up is highly in Rosalina's favour.

 

[mario123007]

Rosalina doesn't have any straight up negative match-ups from what I can tell. While she saw nerfs in 1.0.4, she saw buffs too. Basically, they toned Rosalina herself down a bit, but strengthened the options Rosalina & Luma have as a pair, specifically when they are not linked.

She is still regarded as the second best character by a lot of people, only character beating her on the tiers is Diddy Kong. Which is ironic, because the Rosalina VS Diddy match-up is highly in Rosalina's favour.

While the competitive scene is still developing, we're simply doing our best to see which characters Rosalina can clobber easily, and which ones give her the most trouble. Keep in mind though that battling in For Glory isn't the best way to determine match-ups, due to online lag. As such, local competitive tourneys are basically the main way to go in this situation.

Okay here's what I'm gonna say:
During E3 I actually thought that Rosalina might be the weakest character in Smash 4. Probably because Bill sucks at using Rosalina when I watch Nintendo live at E3. After the National Tournament, everyone regard Rosalina OP. And then after patch 1.0.4, Rosalina is one of the characters got many movesets and functions being nerfed. But can you say Rosalina is no longer OP anymore? Rosalina may not be powerful anymore, but sincde this is no longer Brawl and Sakurai said he likes this game being balanced, no one is the strongest in this game.

 

[ChikoLad]

Okay here's what I'm gonna say:
During E3 I actually thought that Rosalina might be the weakest character in Smash 4. Probably because Bill sucks at using Rosalina when I watch Nintendo live at E3. After the National Tournament, everyone regard Rosalina OP. And then after patch 1.0.4, Rosalina is one of the characters got many movesets and functions being nerfed. But can you say Rosalina is no longer OP anymore? Rosalina may not be powerful anymore, but sincde this is no longer Brawl and Sakurai said he likes this game being balanced, no one is the strongest in this game.

She was never OP to begin with. Being the best character =/= being OP.

She's simply the second best character now (tied with Sheik, probably). She got some buffs, she got some nerfs, just turns out the nerfs had the overall bigger impact.

However, just as other characters are finding out new techniques and ways to apply them, so is Rosalina & Luma. The meta game is still in it's infancy, and things are yet to be set in stone.

 

[mario123007]

She was never OP to begin with. Being the best character =/= being OP.

She's simply the second best character now (tied with Sheik, probably). She got some buffs, she got some nerfs, just turns out the nerfs had the overall bigger impact.

However, just as other characters are finding out new techniques and ways to apply them, so is Rosalina & Luma. The meta game is still in it's infancy, and things are yet to be set in stone.

At first many of us were worried about her nerfs before the patch, after the patch she was nerfed indeed, but even she might not as powerful as usual. She is still a new character that we are trying to get good with, and there many things we are still trying to discover in this game. Just what will we find out next about Sm4sh and Rosalina over the next few years............

 

[Iron Kraken]

Rosalina is not a sinking ship. I think the reason why OP may feel this way is because there was a time (prior to the patch) when Rosalina was considered the most OP character. And now, Diddy and Sheik are considered to be at the top, and people view Rosalina as a character that is merely in the top 10 (along with Yoshi, Sonic, ZSS, Ness, etc.)

So the natural human tendency is to say "Oh, Rosalina was here, and now she's a little bit further down... so she'll probably keep sinking." But there's no reason to think this. People may like to say things like "People will figure Rosalina out with time." ... But the exact same thing can be said about Diddy, ZSS, or any other good character.

Another thing about Rosalina is that in comparison to other supposedly top characters, far less people use her. You see many more people using characters like Falcon, Fox, Mario, etc.... and of course Diddy and Sheik. I think the reason fewer people use Rosalina is because of her play style. Most people prefer characters that go in on their opponents more. Rosalina, however, is about spacing, and requires a lot of patience to use optimally.

The lack of people who use Rosalina thus contributes to a perception of "Well, not many people user her... so maybe she's not that good." But then just look at Dabuz, who is still dominant with her. ( http://smashboards.com/threads/xsmash-2-results.384495/ ). Just imagine if more top players actually tried learning Rosalina.

I believe Rosalina went from being overrated ("OMG she's the new Meta Knight, most OP character everrr") to underrated. Rosalina still has incredible tools that other characters could only dream of, like her incredible gimping game, amazing spacing game / huge hit boxes, lingering hitboxes, insane raw power with Luma, and a protective ally in Luma that gets her out of many bad situations for free.

...I mean, which attack that Rosalina has isn't really good? Her jab with Luma is absurdly good. It can do 20%+ damage easily and you can out space your opponent with it. Her F-Tilt and D-Tilt both have ridiculous range, especially with Luma, and little cool down. Her down-smash starts quickly and covers great range with Luma. Her up-smash and forward-smash are among the strongest in the game when Luma connects with them... and did I mention the crazy range of these attacks? .. Rosalina's U-Air and Dair are among the best attacks in the entire game, and along with her Fair, and ability to go deep, she covers every possible way by which her opponent will attempt to recover to the stage. Her grab game is very solid. I could go on. The truth is that Rosalina still has the world at her disposal.

Her negatives are basically that she's light, tall, can have trouble returning to the stage, and loses much of her power without Luma on the stage. But overall her advantages easily more than make up for these flaws, making her one of the top characters in the game. And I do believe that the skill cap with Rosalina is so high because of all the ways Luma can be utilized, that as it stands (barring another balance patch) I believe Rosalina has a future as a top 5 character in the game when played at the highest level.

 

[Warlock*G]

And now maybe some of these little kids will start seeing why I was speaking out against premature nerfs, a few months ago...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The funny thing about this matter is that Rosalina is one of the easier newcomers to use properly. It's just her learning curve that tends to be the main challenge, as you're also utilizing her Luma partner when fighting.

Regardless of the situation though, Rosalina is much easier to pick up than if one were to use someone like Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Duck Hunt, or Greninja.

 

[MezzoMe]

Regardless of the situation though, Rosalina is much easier to pick up than if one were to use someone like Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Duck Hunt, or Greninja.

At low and maybe mid levels, I don't think that Duck Hunt Duo/Dog is that hard, I recall the first tournaments of SSB3DS were the strategy was more or less like this:

1. Neutral B
2. Side B
3. Down B
4. Repeat from 1 to 3 until they come close to you
5. Either DThrow->Uair, Dash Attack, or Fair
6. Repeat until the enemy dies

Granted, this was the very beginning of the competitive scene where we thought that he was broken, including his recovery and his kill moves but still, it's pretty easy to use the character at beginners levels.
Back on topic:

Another thing about Rosalina is that in comparison to other supposedly top characters, far less people use her. You see many more people using characters like Falcon, Fox, Mario, etc.... and of course Diddy and Sheik. I think the reason fewer people use Rosalina is because of her play style. Most people prefer characters that go in on their opponents more. Rosalina, however, is about spacing, and requires a lot of patience to use optimally

I don't think that the spacing is that much of a problem, especially considering how Marth is popular in Melee and Brawl.

I mean, which attack that Rosalina has isn't really good?

I give you 1.000.000 euvos if you give me a reason to use her FThrow and DA.
And for that matter, I don't think that it's about how many of a characters' moves are useful, but how many situations you can cover with those moves.
For istance, Dimensional Cape and Drill Rush were useless aside for recovering just as his USmash, but he still had several options for any istance in Brawl, while had a use for nearly every attack aside for WP(barring shield breaks), DSmash and Dark Dive (barring recovering), yet he has to hard read the world to being able to punish an attack on his shield and can do nearly anything to not get edgehogged.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I think she's a strong character . I'm not sure of all her MU's but she's ptetty nuts. She's only going to get better with time. She has her weaknesses but I believe that to be true of every character. Her moves have a lot of interesting properties and with the luma landong she's basically putting out hitbox that you can't really see.

 

[mario123007]

The funny thing about this matter is that Rosalina is one of the easier newcomers to use properly. It's just her learning curve that tends to be the main challenge, as you're also utilizing her Luma partner when fighting.

Regardless of the situation though, Rosalina is much easier to pick up than if one were to use someone like Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Duck Hunt, or Greninja.

When I use her for the first time on the 3DS, she feels floaty and slow to me. I haven't used her these so I might need to practice her more.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think she's a strong character . I'm not sure of all her MU's but she's ptetty nuts. She's only going to get better with time. She has her weaknesses but I believe that to be true of every character. Her moves have a lot of interesting properties and with the luma landong she's basically putting out hitbox that you can't really see.

It'll be a while before we can get a good idea on how Rosalina fares against everyone. That's pretty much where the match-up analysis thread comes into play.

 

[mario123007]

It'll be a while before we can get a good idea on how Rosalina fares against everyone. That's pretty much where the match-up analysis thread comes into play.

Probably for 2-3 years of playing this game until we got a more legit tier list for every character.
Right here:http://smashboards.com/threads/rosalina-match-up-analysis-week-5-luigi.380230/page-4#post-18290722

 

[icraq]

I give you 1.000.000 euvos if you give me a reason to use her FThrow and DA.
And for that matter, I don't think that it's about how many of a characters' moves are useful, but how many situations you can cover with those moves.

do you have 1,000,000 euros? because i can give you 1,000,000 reasons to use down air. i'm guessing that's what you mean by DA. if somehow you meant down tilt, i can give you probably just a few reasons.

rosalina's downair is hands down one of the best down airs in the game, though for that title to truly be held it requires Luma to be by her side. it has a massive disjoint, it has a long lasting spike that doesn't need to be sweetspotted, it's frame dependent, it can kill on it's own if you hit with the first non-spiking frame, it auto cancels out of a SH and allows you to easily do any auto canceled luma aerial before landing, including uair, one of the hardest aerials to autocancel with luma. add luma to the mix and you have a move with enough base knockback to knock most opponents into the blast zone around 70% if they're hit at all off the stage, or anywhere near teh edge. luma's dair also has incredibly low hitlag, which means if you hit someone with it they have almost no time to react with DI or prepare against a stage spike. if you have high amounts of rage knockback, luma's dair can kill much sooner than 70%, even on the stage.
so many characters literally have no response against this move when recovernig from certain positions. ganondorf when he recovers low has no defense at all, rosalina herself is extremely vulnerable to it, luigi is super exposed to it, fox is extremely easy to spike, diddy recovering low is extremely easy to gimp with dair, rob has no answer against it if recovering low, villager gets spiked easily, captain falcon suffers the same fate as ganon.. if you know sheik is going to use vanish you can cover her ledge snap vulnerability with dair from a ledge release jump, same with zelda.. pit's super easy like rosalina is..

there's a few characters that it doesn't work against. ddd being one, he can super armor through it, yoshi being another since he always recovers high. pacman i find is fairly difficult to edgeguard. wario can usually recover high with his bike, but if he's low it's easy. metaknight is impossible to edgeguard. link/tlink are somewhat difficult, their bombs pretty much prevent rosa from going out there, but it's not impossible to navigate around their bombs.

if you're talking about down tilt, well, it's quick, low start up lag, and covers a lot of range and hangs out there for a bit. and it shield pokes.. and is an easy setup to send your opponent into luma if separated.

fthrow at high percents is better than dthrow if you're trying to keep your opponent off the stage. so there's your reason. i actually think even at mid percents it's a better choice than uthrow, dthrow and bthrow if their back is close to the edge, because of rosa's super solid ability to edgeguard both off the stage and on the stage. uthrow and dthrow both begin to lose their usefulness in the mid percent range, except uthrow probably is still best with plaforms and setting up juggles. dthrow i feel is only good at 0%, or if i want them on a platform.

seriously though, i can talk about downair's awesomeness for days.
also i accept paypal.

 

[MezzoMe]

do you have 1,000,000 euros? because i can give you 1,000,000 reasons to use down air. i'm guessing that's what you mean by DA. if somehow you meant down tilt, i can give you probably just a few reasons.

rosalina's downair is hands down one of the best down airs in the game, though for that title to truly be held it requires Luma to be by her side. it has a massive disjoint, it has a long lasting spike that doesn't need to be sweetspotted, it's frame dependent, it can kill on it's own if you hit with the first non-spiking frame, it auto cancels out of a SH and allows you to easily do any auto canceled luma aerial before landing, including uair, one of the hardest aerials to autocancel with luma. add luma to the mix and you have a move with enough base knockback to knock most opponents into the blast zone around 70% if they're hit at all off the stage, or anywhere near teh edge. luma's dair also has incredibly low hitlag, which means if you hit someone with it they have almost no time to react with DI or prepare against a stage spike. if you have high amounts of rage knockback, luma's dair can kill much sooner than 70%, even on the stage.
so many characters literally have no response against this move when recovernig from certain positions. ganondorf when he recovers low has no defense at all, rosalina herself is extremely vulnerable to it, luigi is super exposed to it, fox is extremely easy to spike, diddy recovering low is extremely easy to gimp with dair, rob has no answer against it if recovering low, villager gets spiked easily, captain falcon suffers the same fate as ganon.. if you know sheik is going to use vanish you can cover her ledge snap vulnerability with dair from a ledge release jump, same with zelda.. pit's super easy like rosalina is..

there's a few characters that it doesn't work against. ddd being one, he can super armor through it, yoshi being another since he always recovers high. pacman i find is fairly difficult to edgeguard. wario can usually recover high with his bike, but if he's low it's easy. metaknight is impossible to edgeguard. link/tlink are somewhat difficult, their bombs pretty much prevent rosa from going out there, but it's not impossible to navigate around their bombs.

if you're talking about down tilt, well, it's quick, low start up lag, and covers a lot of range and hangs out there for a bit. and it shield pokes.. and is an easy setup to send your opponent into luma if separated.

fthrow at high percents is better than dthrow if you're trying to keep your opponent off the stage. so there's your reason. i actually think even at mid percents it's a better choice than uthrow, dthrow and bthrow if their back is close to the edge, because of rosa's super solid ability to edgeguard both off the stage and on the stage. uthrow and dthrow both begin to lose their usefulness in the mid percent range, except uthrow probably is still best with plaforms and setting up juggles. dthrow i feel is only good at 0%, or if i want them on a platform.

seriously though, i can talk about downair's awesomeness for days.
also i accept paypal.

Actually, by DA I meant Dash Attack.
Also I prefer grab release my opponent if he can be gimped early, since the FThrow is easily DIed

Anyway, here's an anticipation

 

[icraq]

Actually, by DA I meant Dash Attack.
Also I prefer grab release my opponent if he can be gimped early, since the FThrow is easily DIed

Anyway, here's an anticipation

aha! well, i lack as much to say about dash attack, but i have some positives.

sometime it's the only move you can punish with, it starts at frame 6 so it's one of the quickest starting dash attacks in the game, plus it lingers and has multiple hitboxes.
just a random example i can think of, lets say lucario is recovering, and you're expecting him to go low, and he goes high and lands in the middle of the stage. the only way to make it over to him in time is by dashing, an usmash doesn't come out til frame 16 or 18, i dont remember which, but dash attack comes out frame 6 and he's about to recover from his landing lag.

it also covers air dodges into the ground, it lingers a bit longer than other moves. it can also shield poke. it's actually one of my favorite punish moves. i love just dashing in and baiting a strong attack, foxtroting out and quickly fox troting or perfect pivoting back with dash attack.

hmm, oh and it sets up your opponent for being juggled.
also, dash attack canceled grabs! i don't know if that counts but i try to do them every time, it's a free 3% from luma.

not the best move in the game but it's certainly not bad! just dont miss or get blocked!

fthrow still has an okay amount of knockback on it! and it's a fairly quick throw, if you just do it immediately after grabbing i doubt they'll DI properly, pretty much every throw it's better to DI away from Rosa so that'll be first reaction. it still wont kill any time soon but it keeps your opponent off the stage better than anything else would out of grab. however i agree grab release is possibly better if you're holding onto your opponent over the edge.

 

[CNARY]

Someone should probably confirm this but at low percents Fthrow combos into luma shot.
And sure let's say her Fthrow doesn't have a use, it's not like that really changes anything if you just dthrow.
So what you're saying is right, that it's about the amount of situations covered by a certain option rather than an option to cover every situation, but your examples are a little poor.

 

[HeroMystic]

Another thing about Rosalina is that in comparison to other supposedly top characters, far less people use her. You see many more people using characters like Falcon, Fox, Mario, etc.... and of course Diddy and Sheik. I think the reason fewer people use Rosalina is because of her play style. Most people prefer characters that go in on their opponents more. Rosalina, however, is about spacing, and requires a lot of patience to use optimally.

I'm actually pretty sure it's because of the massive hate Rosalina (still) has for being a "cheap" character.

Even commentators take jabs at Rosalina on stream.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm actually pretty sure it's because of the massive hate Rosalina (still) has for being a "cheap" character.

Even commentators take jabs at Rosalina on stream.

That just seems very dumb at this point, as we all know by now that Rosalina is not broken in any way.

 

[HeroMystic]

That just seems very dumb at this point, as we all know by now that Rosalina is not broken in any way.

Very true, but unfortunately it still happens. Smashladder.com has users who discourages Rosalina mains, and I've already watched at least two streams that people are tired of seeing Rosalina, despite the fact there are a plethora of Diddys. Once a stigma starts it is hard to take it away.

 

[Warlock*G]

Very true, but unfortunately it still happens. Smashladder.com has users who discourages Rosalina mains, and I've already watched at least two streams that people are tired of seeing Rosalina, despite the fact there are a plethora of Diddys. Once a stigma starts it is hard to take it away.

Rrrrrosalina is cheap! Rrrrrosalina is cheap!~

 

[mario123007]

I'm actually pretty sure it's because of the massive hate Rosalina (still) has for being a "cheap" character.

Even commentators take jabs at Rosalina on stream.

Oh really? I'm very curious to see that video. And what are these Rosalina haters thinking. If some of these haters hate her just because they think Bowser Jr. is a more better Mario Series Smash newcomer than Rosalina then I will &@$₩£%#...
And cheap means.....weak? Why are they saying her cheap? I really don't get it. Is it the competitives think she is too weak or something? Or they think she isn't suitable for Smash?
Can you post some comments from these Rosalina haters(Not just comments from Smashboards, any where around the web)? And want to know the reason.

Very true, but unfortunately it still happens. Smashladder.com has users who discourages Rosalina mains, and I've already watched at least two streams that people are tired of seeing Rosalina, despite the fact there are a plethora of Diddys. Once a stigma starts it is hard to take it away.

Me I'm okay seeing her in tournaments, but only when she wins, I can't stand seeing her being jabbed and get screen koed.
And Captain Falcon,Sheik,and ROB the runner-ups.

Rrrrrosalina is cheap! Rrrrrosalina is cheap!~

Can I report this post?
@ Warlock*G ,
Are you here for muddle?

 

[Warlock*G]

[...]
@ Warlock*G ,
Are you here for muddle?

Keep in mind that a parrot merely repeats what it hears without understanding the meaning of the words...

 

[mario123007]

Keep in mind that a parrot merely repeats what it hears without understanding the meaning of the words...

Oh, I see!!"chuckle" So the parrot resembles these Rosalina haters/braggers I guess? Or just the morons?
You don't hate Rosalina , do you @ Warlock*G ? Hope you aren't these braggers that they mentioned.Well then I'm gonna give your parrot post a like!

 

[Warlock*G]

[...]
You don't hate Rosalina , do you @ Warlock*G ?
[...]

Not at all. Besides, "hate" is too strong a word for any fictional character. At the end of the day, games are merely games. In general, more people should keep that in mind.

 

[mario123007]

Not at all. Besides, "hate" is too strong a word for any fictional character. At the end of the day, games are merely games. In general, more people should keep that in mind.

Got it.
Maybe you're right. Saying hate is a bit too exaggerated, but at least you know what I mean.
But still, these anti-Rosalina mobs should stop criticizing about her being cheap, like you said, this is just a game, but as a Smash Bros game that we all love. We should stop complaining.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

We hear so many complaints with Rosalina, and yet people should be more focused on Diddy Kong, as he's been the bigger story around these parts lately.

 

[Warlock*G]

We hear so many complaints with Rosalina, and yet people should be more focused on Diddy Kong, as he's been the bigger story around these parts lately.

Yes, lately. Stories come and go. Right now everybody is on Diddy's nuts & banana, but I'm waiting for the next OMG OVERPOWERED character to be "discovered".

 

[mario123007]

We hear so many complaints with Rosalina, and yet people should be more focused on Diddy Kong, as he's been the bigger story around these parts lately.

Yes, lately. Stories come and go. Right now everybody is on Diddy's nuts & banana, but I'm waiting for the next OMG OVERPOWERED character to be "discovered".

Nah, I don't think that Diddy Kong would be railed as much as Meta Knight back in Brawl, since Sakurai has made this game more balanced.
I don't really hope Sakurai release another major balance patch that refines many characters for many reasons. First, you will always worried that whether your favorite character ir main will be nerfted or not.( I remember before the patch, many users had noticed some nerfs on Rosalina in the Wii U version)
Second, once you update to the new patch, you can't view your old replays any more. If Sakurai keeps releasing another balance patch once a few month it will be annoying.
Third, the meta gameplay, once a character is either nerfted or buffed, it will effect the tier list and many tournaments. Like Diddy Kong, if he is that OP will Sakurai release another balance patch just to nerf him down?
Even though Diddy Kong may seem over power, we still have to wait for a few years to see the more solid tier list. And not just Diddy Kong of course. Captain Falcon,ZSS, Sheik, and ROB could be the next runnerups of OP characters.

 

[Tino]

Just how exactly is Rosalina "cheap" anyways? All I'm hearing is a bunch of excuses if you ask me.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Just how exactly is Rosalina "cheap" anyways? All I'm hearing is a bunch of excuses if you ask me.

She has a little buddy calmed luma and they can be a bit obnoxious . Especially when she's covering massive space with luma. Also dair is pretty nuts as is uair.

 

[Tino]

She has a little buddy calmed luma and they can be a bit obnoxious . Especially when she's covering massive space with luma. Also dair is pretty nuts as is uair.

Besides the Luma, really. Everybody knows you can easily get rid of the Luma just by attacking it. I mean, is it really that hard to do?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Besides the Luma, really. Everybody knows you can easily get rid of the Luma just by attacking it. I mean, is it really that hard to do?

It's not hard to get rid of Luma on some stages it's harder than others. Luma gives Rosalina a lot of options others characters don't have and if you're not consistently killing luma she's going to be a big problem.

 

[ChikoLad]

Luma gives Rosalina a lot of options others characters don't have

That shouldn't be considered "cheap" or even "obnoxious" though. That's literally how you make a diverse fighting game - give each character unique options.

 

[Sleek Media]

I consider Rosalina sunk. Yeah, she's still very strong post-patch, but she has two problems that ensure she'll never get a meta as well-developed as certain other characters without more patches:

1) She has an unconventional play style (it's not rushdown).

2) Her worst matchups are rushdown characters.

Ever since before launch, everyone in the competitive community has whined nonstop about how Smash4 isn't Melee. All they seem to want is a Melee-like game consisting of pure rushdown pressure with no real defensive options. Shiek, who is Rosalina's worst matchup, is that Melee-like character that the bulk of the competitive community wants to play. The preference of competitive players to develop characters which are naturally good against Rosalina is going to create a cycle which continually pushes her down.

Nerfing the crap out of Shiek may help, but don't count on it happening for a long time, until after players have already invested a great amount of time in her.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Rosalina had the misfortune of being flavor of the month back when the 3DS version first released, having an unusual play style that no one knew how to deal with at first, and a few well-publicized matches ensuring the masses knew all about her. (Hi Dabuz.)

1.0.4 helped and the focus has since shifted over to Diddy. But I expect the initial stigma will follow her for quite a while if not the entirety of the game's lifespan. She's still a good character regardless so I'm not worried on that front, it's strictly a PR problem.

 

[Iron Kraken]

I consider Rosalina sunk. Yeah, she's still very strong post-patch, but she has two problems that ensure she'll never get a meta as well-developed as certain other characters without more patches:

1) She has an unconventional play style (it's not rushdown).

2) Her worst matchups are rushdown characters.

Ever since before launch, everyone in the competitive community has whined nonstop about how Smash4 isn't Melee. All they seem to want is a Melee-like game consisting of pure rushdown pressure with no real defensive options. Shiek, who is Rosalina's worst matchup, is that Melee-like character that the bulk of the competitive community wants to play. The preference of competitive players to develop characters which are naturally good against Rosalina is going to create a cycle which continually pushes her down.

Nerfing the crap out of Shiek may help, but don't count on it happening for a long time, until after players have already invested a great amount of time in her.

I agree that the overwhelming majority of competitive Smash players rush to the rushdown characters, which is why comparatively very few people even try using Rosalina compared to some other characters. The simple fact that very few people choose to play her is giving the false impression to some people that she's not as competitively viable as some of the other top characters. The proof of this is: ask most of the top players today if they ever seriously tried learning to use Rosalina. Pretty much all of them will tell you that no, they never seriously considered trying her.

But I don't think her match up against rush down characters is as bad you're making it out to be. Dabuz for example beats plenty of top-level Sheiks with Rosalina. Playing games against people I consider to be at my own level, I don't feel like I'm at such a great advantage using Rosalina against Sheik.

Even then, "sunk" is a tremendous exaggeration. Even if she has a disadvantageous match up against 2 or 3 of the top characters in the game, there are still like 47 other characters people use. If nothing else you could use Rosalina against those 47 characters, and have another character in line just for those 2 or 3 rushdown characters. But I still think Rosalina is good enough so that if someone is dedicated to her, it's hardly necessary.