Rosalina and Luma Have Some Nasty Dodge-Cancel Options

[BobVance_]

Toxic to fight=god tier

Ok then the remaining 2 spot in top 3 go to Little Mac and Sonic. That's your logic there. Being campy and annoying doesn't make you top 3, in ANY fighting game.

No, being insanely good and also being technically voted by most as top three = top three tier. She a long with Shiek and Diddy are the most used at tournaments. That's why they're up there...or do you not know how tiers work? Remember when Bowser was "top tier?" lol

 

[TheMikinator3000]

Yay for Rosie and Luma! Funny, I actually tried maiming them. It worked.

 

[TrevonMarrast]

Top 10
1.Sheik
2.Diddy
3.Roasluma
4.ZSS
5.Luigi
6.Mario
7.Pikachu
8.Ness
9.Sonic
10.Captain Falcon/Megaman
Disclaimer: 6-10 are not in specific order!

 

[TrevonMarrast]

No delete post option?

 

[warriorman222]

No, being insanely good and also being technically voted by most as top three = top three tier. She a long with Shiek and Diddy are the most used at tournaments. That's why they're up there...or do you not know how tiers work? Remember when Bowser was "top tier?" lol

Most used at tourneys doesn't make you top tier. if Brawldorf was the most used character in tourneys, would he be top tier? No. I'm not saying rosa isn't top tier, just not top 3. Bring proof of insanely good, as you have brought none. And i mean, technical statistical proof. Until then, you have no argument. SHe is voted at 3rd place my most people, but they don't give any explanation. Being said as top tier a lot doesn't make you top tier. If everyone said Brawldorf was top tier but gave no proof, would he be top tier? No. And that's what you're doing now. Except it also includes bordering spewing insults at the other side. If you won't bring an actual argument, don't argue.

 

[Gionni]

I'm no Rosalinda main but I think that this could be really useful

 

[BobVance_]

Most used at tourneys doesn't make you top tier. if Brawldorf was the most used character in tourneys, would he be top tier? No. I'm not saying rosa isn't top tier, just not top 3. Bring proof of insanely good, as you have brought none. And i mean, technical statistical proof. Until then, you have no argument. SHe is voted at 3rd place my most people, but they don't give any explanation. Being said as top tier a lot doesn't make you top tier. If everyone said Brawldorf was top tier but gave no proof, would he be top tier? No. And that's what you're doing now. Except it also includes bordering spewing insults at the other side. If you won't bring an actual argument, don't argue.

No, being better than half of the cast makes her top tier. Winning a lot of tournaments makes her top tier. Also statistical voting makes her top tier. How do you think sites like Smogon and eventhubs work when determining tiers? Tiers can easily change, but as of now, she is top three.

 

[Gidy]

This isn't a tech, but knowledge is power.

 

[Wasp]

I only have one request and that is to nerf ness' backthrow. And his PK fire should not let him open a combo. I HATE ness -_-

 

[ChikoLad]

Most used at tourneys doesn't make you top tier. if Brawldorf was the most used character in tourneys, would he be top tier? No. I'm not saying rosa isn't top tier, just not top 3. Bring proof of insanely good, as you have brought none. And i mean, technical statistical proof. Until then, you have no argument. SHe is voted at 3rd place my most people, but they don't give any explanation. Being said as top tier a lot doesn't make you top tier. If everyone said Brawldorf was top tier but gave no proof, would he be top tier? No. And that's what you're doing now. Except it also includes bordering spewing insults at the other side. If you won't bring an actual argument, don't argue.

I don't see why you're telling other people they aren't backing up their posts when you haven't provided a single reason why anyone should consider Rosalina below even top 2, let alone top 3.

 

[warriorman222]

No, being better than half of the cast makes her top tier. Winning a lot of tournaments makes her top tier. Also statistical voting makes her top tier. How do you think sites like Smogon and eventhubs work when determining tiers? Tiers can easily change, but as of now, she is top three.

Being better than half the cast makes you middle tier. Winning lots of tournaments... Doesn't define a spot. And how many, exactly? Which ones? Statistical voting also doesn't make someone top tier.

Oh yeah, Smogon tiers run entirely on usage. The eventhubs higher-ups admit that their tier lists can get clogged with popularity sometimes (Bowser 44th, SHulk 1st), and they are extremely erratic, in one day Shulk got every ranking twice at least..

tl;dr None of those make you top tier, and where is the proof of said feats?


So let me bring my side of the story: As good as Rosalina is, people have gotten used to her. Luma, is great. Really great. But even if Rosalina is still usable without it, she's still quite handicapped. She's extremely light and dies quickly, and while her gimp game is great, she can struggle to kill heavyweights, because after a matter of being touched a few times you're in danger of dying from the next hit sustained. She has stage contorl, but people as far as I've seen are finding ways around it. Rosalina is like that huge threat that people slowly get used to, as unlike other top tiers, things aren't being found for her constantly to leave us unprepared. While she's won quite a many tournaments, a majority of them were before 1.0.4 and many people don't like using her in tourneys because it means a campy playstyle.

Don't get me wrong, I think she's still top 10. She has a personal shield, ridiculous recovery, good hitboxes, extremely annoying ways to get past you, and can usually get free smahses in. But I think the criteria for 2nd or 3rd place is strict, and that she barely doesn't meet that criteria. I'd put her in Top 10, no lower, maybe even top 5.

 

[Artmastercorey]

wait, can even toonlink cancel his landing lag?

 

[ChikoLad]

Being better than half the cast makes you middle tier. Winning lots of tournaments... Doesn't define a spot. And how many, exactly? Which ones? Statistical voting also doesn't make someone top tier.

Oh yeah, Smogon tiers run entirely on usage. The eventhubs higher-ups admit that their tier lists can get clogged with popularity sometimes (Bowser 44th, SHulk 1st), and they are extremely erratic, in one day Shulk got every ranking twice at least..

tl;dr None of those make you top tier, and where is the proof of said feats?


So let me bring my side of the story: As good as Rosalina is, people have gotten used to her. Luma, is great. Really great. But even if Rosalina is still usable without it, she's still quite handicapped. She's extremely light and dies quickly, and while her gimp game is great, she can struggle to kill heavyweights, because after a matter of being touched a few times you're in danger of dying from the next hit sustained. She has stage contorl, but people as far as I've seen are finding ways around it. Rosalina is like that huge threat that people slowly get used to, as unlike other top tiers, things aren't being found for her constantly to leave us unprepared. While she's won quite a many tournaments, a majority of them were before 1.0.4 and many people don't like using her in tourneys because it means a campy playstyle.

Don't get me wrong, I think she's still top 10. She has a personal shield, ridiculous recovery, good hitboxes, extremely annoying ways to get past you, and can usually get free smahses in. But I think the criteria for 2nd or 3rd place is strict, and that she barely doesn't meet that criteria. I'd put her in Top 10, no lower, maybe even top 5.

Once you describe Rosalina has having trouble against heavyweights or having a campy playstyle, you lose your right to be taken seriously when talking about her.

Also, new things are discovered extremely often with her, people just aren't widely applying them in tandem because of the rate of discovery. There is a lot to take in when mastering her.

 

[warriorman222]

Once you describe Rosalina has having trouble against heavyweights or having a campy playstyle, you lose your right to be taken seriously when talking about her.

Also, new things are discovered extremely often with her, people just aren't widely applying them in tandem because of the rate of discovery. There is a lot to take in when mastering her.

I'm not saying she has trouble with heavies, I said she can have trouble killing them. Not will. And I mean that I'd rather not have to rack up to 170+% when i just need to get tapped at 80% and murdered. I also don't mean camping is required, it's very effective, and usually when the most effective way to play a character is defensive or campy, the pros will usually play them offensively if it's viable (which it is, very much), or not at all. PLus the amount of Rosalinas is lower because global Diddy tierwhoring.

Again, explains why things discovered aren't applied instantly: The lack of dedicated mains playing at tourneys and showing these. While the hour Smash Corner shows his perfect pivot video, the next 10 people i fight use it ridiculously well, all of which were Shieks, Diddys and Sanics.

Also, the rare Rosa i fight are usually skilled, as people usually don't stick with nerfed characters unless they are dedicated. The reason many Rosas would win tourneys is because they're dedicated.

Wow. that was long. Also you said about not proving my side. I'll dop soem research and come back later.

 

[brodouble]

Being better than half the cast makes you middle tier. Winning lots of tournaments... Doesn't define a spot. And how many, exactly? Which ones? Statistical voting also doesn't make someone top tier.

Oh yeah, Smogon tiers run entirely on usage. The eventhubs higher-ups admit that their tier lists can get clogged with popularity sometimes (Bowser 44th, SHulk 1st), and they are extremely erratic, in one day Shulk got every ranking twice at least..

tl;dr None of those make you top tier, and where is the proof of said feats?


So let me bring my side of the story: As good as Rosalina is, people have gotten used to her. Luma, is great. Really great. But even if Rosalina is still usable without it, she's still quite handicapped. She's extremely light and dies quickly, and while her gimp game is great, she can struggle to kill heavyweights, because after a matter of being touched a few times you're in danger of dying from the next hit sustained. She has stage contorl, but people as far as I've seen are finding ways around it. Rosalina is like that huge threat that people slowly get used to, as unlike other top tiers, things aren't being found for her constantly to leave us unprepared. While she's won quite a many tournaments, a majority of them were before 1.0.4 and many people don't like using her in tourneys because it means a campy playstyle.

Don't get me wrong, I think she's still top 10. She has a personal shield, ridiculous recovery, good hitboxes, extremely annoying ways to get past you, and can usually get free smahses in. But I think the criteria for 2nd or 3rd place is strict, and that she barely doesn't meet that criteria. I'd put her in Top 10, no lower, maybe even top 5.

homie you really have no clue how tiers work. just gotta say.

 

[warriorman222]

homie you really have no clue how tiers work. just gotta say.

Actually, i do. I'm just saying that the 2 tier lists he mentioned are based on mostly different processes then Smash's tier list. So i was pinting out those were bad examples.

But if a lot of people cae up and said Mii Swordfighter or some other lower tier character was top tier, without giving any sort of proof, just putting it there, would that character be top tier? (This isn't meant to be a perfect example to what was really happening in the "debate")

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not saying she has trouble with heavies, I said she can have trouble killing them. Not will. And I mean that I'd rather not have to rack up to 170+% when i just need to get tapped at 80% and murdered. I also don't mean camping is required, it's very effective, and usually when the most effective way to play a character is defensive or campy, the pros will usually play them offensively if it's viable (which it is, very much), or not at all. PLus the amount of Rosalinas is lower because global Diddy tierwhoring.

Again, explains why things discovered aren't applied instantly: The lack of dedicated mains playing at tourneys and showing these. While the hour Smash Corner shows his perfect pivot video, the next 10 people i fight use it ridiculously well, all of which were Shieks, Diddys and Sanics.

Also, the rare Rosa i fight are usually skilled, as people usually don't stick with nerfed characters unless they are dedicated. The reason many Rosas would win tourneys is because they're dedicated.

Wow. that was long. Also you said about not proving my side. I'll dop soem research and come back later.

She can if you don't play correctly, but the exact same can be said about every single character. Bowser can actually have a lot of trouble launching Rosalina if he can't catch her, for example. A friend of mine who even mains Bowser told me this a lot.

And camping is a secondary aspect of Rosalina's playstyle, it's far from the most effective way to play as her. Luma is not for building damage, and if that's how you play her, then no wonder you can't KO heavies with her.

 

[The Teleporter]

Awesome I gotta try it out some time!

 

[warriorman222]

She can if you don't play correctly, but the exact same can be said about every single character. Bowser can actually have a lot of trouble launching Rosalina if he can't catch her, for example. A friend of mine who even mains Bowser told me this a lot.

And camping is a secondary aspect of Rosalina's playstyle, it's far from the most effective way to play as her. Luma is not for building damage, and if that's how you play her, then no wonder you can't KO heavies with her.

It's not that I can't KO heavies with her, it's that I don't like having to play more defensively than them when we're both at a above average percentage because it's going to take a lot longer to kill them. Plus, this is generally a personal problem i have with most lightweights, so i usually use characters with more kill power behind their moves.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's not that I can't KO heavies with her, it's that I don't like having to play more defensively than them when we're both at a above average percentage because it's going to take a lot longer to kill them. Plus, this is generally a personal problem i have with most lightweights, so i usually use characters with more kill power behind their moves.

That's not objective though, you just don't know how to use her.

Just yesterday, I Zero to KO'd a Bowser in For Glory, as Rosalina, and he went out at 50%. I played pure aggression that match.

Rosalina has plenty of powerful KO moves, as does Luma, and combined, their damage output is around Ganondorf levels. If you have problems KO'ing heavies, that is literally just your fault, not the characters.

Most of the time when I play heavies, they are the ones forced into a defensive position, because their attacks have so much end lag or landing lag, that they cannot afford to miss. Not to mention that RosalinaxLuma jab combos can do upwards of 40% to heavies with ease.