RollingSpinCharge - Sonic Advanced Technique

[carrotstien]

I finally figured it out! https://youtu.be/ifLsLLbrlvU?t=37 for the good stuff. I'm fairly certain this is a new technique because of how strange a button input it requires.

The How:

1. Dash Right
   
   
2. Hit Down+B
   
   
3. Quickly move the joystick to Right or neutral (right is easier), and release B somewhere around this time. B release might not be specific.
   
   
4. Then move the joystick down again at the end of the slide.
   
   
5. Quickly release once the blue charge is visible.
   
   
6. do whatever you want after this.
   

The What:

Sonic's spindash and spincharge both more or less stop Sonic's momentum on the ground. The former moves sonic back as well. In the air, the former negates horizontal momentum, while the spincharge charges with whatever momentum you had + any input.

If you want to punish a laggy move, or just want to attack quickly, the fastest way is the dash attack, but this has 2 big negatives: It is limited in damage and knockback, and it has a lot of end lag. I have found a way for Sonic to dash into a spincharge without losing momentum. It looks similar to the dash attack, but is actually a spincharge.

I guess it is appropriate to call this a Rolling Spin Charge. or maybe Dash Canceled Spin Charge...hmm. Actually it looks the most like the Classic Spindash from Sonic 1 (genesis) before the super spin dash (charging) was introduced in Sonic 2.

Since this is a spincharge at the end, you can instantly spinshot to make what I showed in my previous video to be a Instant Spin Charge Jump. Named so since it looks almost identical to the Instant Spin Dash Jump.

I start the video by showing the progression of what to learn in order to do it. First, get comfortable with steps 1 through 3 - which results in a lame roll. Basically, sonic tries to spincharge with momentum, but doesn't get enough charge. This is virtually useless as it leaves you vulnerable, has no hit box, and has lag.

Once you add steps 4 and 5, you build up extra charge at the end of the slide, and the spincharge commences.

In the video I also compare other methods of using the spin charge to get to an opponent to punish - but they are all very telegraphed. The Rolling Spin Charge (RSC, why not), looks like you are about to dash attack.

More sonic mind games ..not to mention that this can kill at around 110% or so by ending it with a sweet spot neutral air.

 

[Camalange]

This has been known for a long time. Maybe just not properly documented.

Thanks for the write-up, though.

I don't know if we ever named it. I usually just called it Sliding Spin Charge, iirc.

Since this is a spincharge at the end, you can instantly spinshot to make what I showed in my previous video to be a Instant Spin Charge Jump. Named so since it looks almost identical to the Instant Spin Dash Jump.

You lost me here. You can't Spinshot from a Grounded Down-B. Closest thing you can do is during the charge, hit up on the C-Stick and get a lazy Spin Charge Jump with the trajectory of an ISDJ, if using that terminology makes it easier to express.

 

[carrotstien]

I always thought any diagonal jump from the spin moves is called a spinshot - until the unique variant of ISDJ came along.

Edit: what was C-stick up during a spincharge called before? not a spinshot? (just curious)

What I mean is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xTyEgN7ThE
Looks very similar to a ISDJ, but uses the spincharge. That's what made me figure out that I can avoid the jump and dash into a spincharge that way.

 

[Camalange]

I always thought any diagonal jump from the spin moves is called a spinshot - until the unique variant of ISDJ came along.

Nope.

ISDJ is literally a Spin Dash Jump. As such, it retains your double jump and has a hitbox with blue aura.

Spinshot is a double jump canceled Spin with no hitbox or blue aura, and launches you much more quickly.

Edit: what was C-stick up during a spincharge called before? not a spinshot? (just curious)
What I mean is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xTyEgN7ThE
Looks very similar to a ISDJ, but uses the spincharge. That's what made me figure out that I can avoid the jump and dash into a spincharge that way.

This is most similar to ISDJ, but different in the sense of its execution, but yes, essentially the same thing.

ISDJ comes out faster, though, which is why I hesitate to call this "instant". It's just a rolling Spin Charge Roll into Spin Charge Jump.

ISDJ can only be done with Spin Dash while mid-run and completely skips the HOP and ROLL steps of Spin Dash, which makes it unique.

 

[carrotstien]

also...the sliding spin charge that's lame could occur due to lag, or just rushing inputs, but the fact that you have to move the joystick one way and then another way, then a third and then let go.. - I've just never seen this mentioned anywhere. I don't care either way if I figured it out first or not...but just curious if other people knew of this before.

 

[Camalange]

It's possible.

I don't remember moving the joystick that much. I just use the momentum of my running and reset to neutral and perform Down-B really quickly to maintain the slide and go into a Spin Charge Roll.

I'm 100% certain that myself and other Sonic mains have seen, discussed, and utilized this technique before.

 

[carrotstien]

from the second video, it looks like ISDJ and what you call the not so instant spin charge roll into a spin charge jump take the same time. They look almost identical - and behave identically once you are in the air (including the double jump and hitbox). The only difference is the button input, and how Sonic looks going into the ball. This, and for one you can cancel into a shield, or just spin dash forward if you change your mind (or charge), while for the other you can't cancel into a shield, but can slide into a spincharge and let go for what looks like spincharge that doesn't make you stop moving from your dash.

cool. Again, more curious (though it sounds like i'm trying to validate/invalidate something), can you link me to any video or discussion?

 

[carrotstien]

I just use the momentum of my running and reset to neutral and perform Down-B really quickly to maintain the slide and go into a Spin Charge Roll.

If I do this, vs what ends up to be 2 downward joystick motions, the slide is very small and the charge occurs in place. I had to slow it down to 1/4th time to figure out how I messed up in one of my ForGlory matches to end up with a long lame spincharge slide

 

[Camalange]

from the second video, it looks like ISDJ and what you call the not so instant spin charge roll into a spin charge jump take the same time. They look almost identical - and behave identically once you are in the air (including the double jump and hitbox). The only difference is the button input, and how Sonic looks going into the ball. This, and for one you can cancel into a shield, or just spin dash forward if you change your mind (or charge), while for the other you can't cancel into a shield, but can slide into a spincharge and let go for what looks like spincharge that doesn't make you stop moving from your dash.

Well yeah, again, they're just Spin Jumps. They don't turn into other moves.

My point is that the execution itself does make it different.

Spin Charge has less steps to go through. It goes from roll to jump. It's really easy to do a Spin Charge Jump without ever seeing much of the Roll.

ISDJ is unique in the sense that it completely ignores the HOP and ROLL step. Beyond that though, yes it functions the same because, yes, they're both still spin jumps at the end of the day.

I could be wrong about the timing. They may be similar, but the fact that you have to start up a Spin Charge to slide then go into it I think is slower than an ISDJ coming out immediately from a dash. Just less steps in general, but this one is far easier to perform.

cool. Again, more curious (though it sounds like i'm trying to validate/invalidate something), can you link me to any video or discussion?

To be perfectly honest, just lurk the stickied threads and I'm sure it'll come up somewhere... Or just watch high level Sonic play. I know I've talked to 6WX long ago about how he replaced this technique with ISDJ after seeing my video on it, so that's just me coming from personal word.

If I do this, vs what ends up to be 2 downward joystick motions, the slide is very small and the charge occurs in place. I had to slow it down to 1/4th time to figure out how I messed up in one of my ForGlory matches to end up with a long lame spincharge slide

It's worth trying. I'll look into it and see how much affect moving the joystick has on the "lame" slide, if you will.

Also, I appreciate your enthusiasm and motivation, but please refrain from posting more than once. I silently merged it the first time but double posting, and especially triple posting, is frowned upon.

Thank you.

 

[carrotstien]

Sorry about the multi posting - artifact of instant messaging
Looking at the second video, the distance between dash and jump is a bit longer than in the ISDJ case. I find though that the input accuracy required for the ISDJ on ForGlory matches, makes it less consistent for me than using the spincharge+c stick move from the dash. If mess up the timing due to lag or just error for the ISDJ, it becomes pretty useless for what I needed it to do, but in the latter case, I sacrifice a bit of instantaneity for a higher success rate.
I've been watching a bunch of 6WX on youtube, and he is pretty awesome!

 

[Camalange]

Sorry about the multi posting - artifact of instant messaging

It's quite alright.

Looking at the second video, the distance between dash and jump is a bit longer than in the ISDJ case. I find though that the input accuracy required for the ISDJ on ForGlory matches, makes it less consistent for me than using the spincharge+c stick move from the dash. If mess up the timing due to lag or just error for the ISDJ, it becomes pretty useless for what I needed it to do, but in the latter case, I sacrifice a bit of instantaneity for a higher success rate.

I do think this technique has value and is good to know, although I would argue that in the long run, ISDJ will usually be your better option. I wouldn't use For Glory as a general gauge for application... Something being more strict shouldn't rule it out. If it's faster and better, you should get faster and better as well.

Again, I could be wrong, but as you just said, I do think the slide causes it to not be as instant as an ISDJ.

 

[carrotstien]

I agree with everything you said - and for the purpose of jumping diagonally with a hitbox and velocity, I always try to ISDJ unless I want to wait in a spincharge animation for mindgames.
The thread though isn't about jumping diagonally, but about spincharging from a dash without any horizontal movement stutter. So it looks sort of like a dash attack, but is actually a spincharge.

 

[Camalange]

I agree with everything you said - and for the purpose of jumping diagonally with a hitbox and velocity, I always try to ISDJ unless I want to wait in a spincharge animation for mindgames.
The thread though isn't about jumping diagonally, but about spincharging from a dash without any horizontal movement stutter. So it looks sort of like a dash attack, but is actually a spincharge.

I think if I look hard enough, I can find a video of Joe using it for that purpose...

Again, definitely valuable to know. I apologize if I'm coming off as trying to discredit it. It's all useful in their own regard.

However, it's just very difficult to document every single niche thing Sonic does out of Spin, cataloguing it by whatever various names people come up with, and getting everyone on the same page. A lot of the same things get rehashed, and it may be new to some, which is important, but doesn't mean it's actually new.

As long as it's new to somebody, I suppose it's fine (which is why I didn't lock this).

 

[infomon]

oooo thanks for figuring out the inputs to make this reliable!

 

[carrotstien]

I found an easier way to do it:
set the C-stick to special
Run, C-down, then joystick-down, and release.
I can do it almost 100% of the time with this method, while without resetting the c-stick, I often get a slide that is too small, or end up doing a spindash instead of a spincharge when moving the joystick between forward and down.

That being said, I find the C-stick too useful for many other techniques, so I can't say that I'd ever choose this arrangement.

 

[Myst_R]

This should definitely be in the first page of our moveset thread.

I feel like we should add a whole thread dedicated to spin dash and spin charge. There are so many uses Sonic mains should know about it I think it'd be useful

 

[ShiroSSB]

Genius. Shiro approves.

 

[Camalange]

Genius. Shiro approves.

Feeling #blessed that we have your seal of approval.

 

[carrotstien]

Camalange, you were right. From the video collection on this forum:
https://youtu.be/0_9_qM4r2Oc?t=92
6wx does exactly what was described in this conv during a match. I didn't even notice (thinking it was a dash attack) until i saw him jump out of it and attack.

 

[Camalange]

Camalange, you were right.

D'aw shucks.

From the video collection on this forum:
https://youtu.be/0_9_qM4r2Oc?t=92
6wx does exactly what was described in this conv during a match. I didn't even notice (thinking it was a dash attack) until i saw him jump out of it and attack.

I'm glad you were able to find a prior example. I knew it had to be out there somewhere.

 

[J.APS]

so that's the way you get that
sometimes I do that but never knew how exactly
literally is a IS (Instant Spin) so...what about calling it ISR?
(in case it can only be done with SC, ISCR)
by that it can be under the IS definition along with ISJ

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I'm actually surprised that people think this is new. IIRC this was already a thing during the Brawl era.

I don't think it's an instant roll because it still goes through the charging phase. The transition is just too smooth, that's all.

Also, I prefer doing the "reverse Hadouken" motion for this..

(running right) →↓+tap B, hold ↓ for a single charge, →

 

[Camalange]

I side with Orochi on this. It works on a very different principle from anything like an ISDJ. It's more just like... A buffer/slide thing.

 

[carrotstien]

Orochi - I tried that movement before, and I wouldn't get the slide - but after trying it over and over eventually I got it. So you are correct, in that you don't need to move the joystick back to neutral. But sometimes Sonic runs, and slides into the charge, and sometimes he stops and charges. Is this just a function of how fast I move the Joystick from [forward] to [down] ?
If I change the c stick to special move, I get the slide every time.
So the question is, is there a method, outside of fast thumbs, to make sure sonic goes into the charge before initiating the screech stop animation (which I assume is what happens to make him stop vs slide into a charge)

 

[Sonic Orochi]

The only guaranteed way is to set up the C-stick to B attacks, AFAIK.

 

[carrotstien]

i wish I could map a direction+attack to a button. Like mapping X to downB. I thought maybe the d-pad down mapped to special would work but it doesn't.
or even just mapping the down part of C to special.