Roll cancel dash grab. Is this something old?

[Leon Trotsky]

I noticed that if you roll forwards you can cancel the first few frames into a dash grab. I tried looking at different smash wikis but couldn't find it described anywhere. It looks like it's a bit faster than a normal dash grab and goes further depending on your characters roll. If you do it right you should see the light that flashes at the start of your roll, but instead you'll go into the dash grab.

I noticed it works extremely well with little mac since the first few frames of his roll are super fast. Other characters not so much.

I created a thread on reddit but so far nobody has indicated this is a thing already.
Apologies if this is old news.

EDIT:
Video - https://gfycat.com/CreativeBitesizedHen

 

[Qbopper]

...that's a nice find. I'll be sure to try this out, thanks for sharing.

I've never heard of this myself

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

The tech!! I love it!!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

FYI, after messing around with this I found that glide tossing is still in the game. It's just bad, like really bad. And a lot harder (except with a few characters like Mac). Try it with a banana peel on Little Mac, his window is a lot bigger than everyone else's, and you don't get a slide. Roll and hit Z with a banana in hand.

 

[RomanceDawn]

I'm kind of slow. How is this performed again? One more explanation please!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This is new as far as I can tell, and it's definitely a noticeable boost for Mac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWNDB6nUj4g

 

[Krugy]

Messed around on a few other characters doing this, it only works if you input dash and then shield after to roll. If you shield and then roll you cannot cancel into grab. It also doesn't seem to provide any noticeable boost to other characters like it seems to with Mac.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You don't have to input Dash then Shield; you just have to not be Shielding prior. It's not quite the same thing, as otherwise you couldn't buffer a roll out of your initial dash, as I do in the second half of my video.

Wario gets a decent boost.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Wario's boost from this technique is incredible, far from "decent" reflex, LOL

 

[Leon Trotsky]

Yeah you can't already be shielding. Also doesn't seem to work on a backwards roll, or at the very least I'm only able to get it to come out on a forwards roll, which isn't really a big deal especially if you are doing this out of a dash dance.

If you do it off a pivot then it'll negate the momentum and you'll dead stop pivot grab. Off a normal pivot grab you'll slide a bit.

This is new as far as I can tell, and it's definitely a noticeable boost for Mac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWNDB6nUj4g

Nice video! Yeah I noticed that you don't get any invincibility frames. I think that's because the first few frames of a roll don't have any and only those ones can be cancelled. Not positive though as I'm not familiar with the frame data on this game. When I was testing last minute rolls to avoid projectiles I was still getting hit during the first few frames of the roll.

I should also note that your character's roll SFX will play if you do this correctly even though a dash grab comes out. So on a character with a notable sound effect on their roll (like Pit) it can be another indication that you are performing it correctly aside from the spark flash

 

[B0NK]

edit ignore pls

 

[Yoki]

You don't have to input Dash then Shield; you just have to not be Shielding prior. It's not quite the same thing, as otherwise you couldn't buffer a roll out of your initial dash, as I do in the second half of my video.

Wario gets a decent boost.

I tested it in the lab, and you do need to input a dash before shielding (or a run turnaround, but you don't get a boost). The input is dash, then roll, then grab, as quick as you'd like but *not* simultaneously. That's why you can't already be shielding, and also why you can't do it during a run despite being able to dodge. Mac's fox trot is so good that you shouldn't ever go into run, though.

Edit: although doing it out of a back roll doesn't work (unless it's out of a run turnaround), you can do a dash, forward roll and pivot grab and get a solid boost.

 

[Leon Trotsky]

Also looks like it doesn't have to be the first frame of the roll, just one of the first few. If I do it as fast as possible I get a shorter distance than if I delay it a bit.

 

[B0NK]

Yep, that's why you can do it backwards. @ Supermodel From Paris explained to me that you can do Back -> R -> A because your character will pivot then input forward roll.

This works because the buffer system is more than one frame.

 

[nightSN]

I tested it in the lab, and you do need to input a dash before shielding (or a run turnaround, but you don't get a boost). The input is dash, then roll, then grab, as quick as you'd like but *not* simultaneously. That's why you can't already be shielding, and also why you can't do it during a run despite being able to dodge. Mac's fox trot is so good that you shouldn't ever go into run, though.

Edit: although doing it out of a back roll doesn't work (unless it's out of a run turnaround), you can do a dash, forward roll and pivot grab and get a solid boost.

From what i am seeing its actually just a very quick dash to shield grab, im testing it right now as the dashing shield grab leaves a glimpse of a star behind you but if you were to use dash and L trigger there would be no star. This does indeed increase your grab range though

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The star signals the start of a roll, though.

 

[B0NK]

^what he said.

The dash to dash shield grab thing you're doing is not it. That was in Brawl.

 

[Yoki]

To test this sort of things, just go to training mode and use 1/4 [L] mode. A very quick L press by sliding your finger can advance game time by just one frame, and you can hold a button to buffer it. It's dash/run turnaround, then roll then grab - doing any of these truly simultaneously will not work.

 

[Krugy]

Has anyone noticed a significant range increase on anyone besides Wario and Mac? I didn't get to finish going through the characters before class.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The characters that benefit are Wario, Mac, Zelda, Robin, and Wii Fit Trainer (barely).

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

^and zero suit

 

[Ganreizu]

Looks similar to the function of jump cancelled grab in melee.

 

[Gaoo]

Wow thanks for the tip. That was pretty easy to get down.

 

[CCCM89]

oh, so THAT's what's going on. I was wondering how yoshi was sliding across the stage with his up special. now I know that it has other applications with more characters.

 

[Pierce7d]

This is an excellent find. I knew browsing the boards would be helpful. It's worth noting that you can still pivot grab using this method, but the timing is of course, technical.

 

[Yoki]

Little Mac's roll canceled pivot grab is actually really good, as it turns out. With proper timing, you can cover enough distance to "crossup" your opponent and pivot grab him from much farther than a standing grab's max range. From testing in 1/4 [L] mode, it looks like getting on the other side of your opponent takes only about 4-5 frames, so it's better than a standing grab and much better than a dash grab at beating out quick jabs. It is also the best option out of a foxtrot when the starting position of your dash is close enough to your opponent.