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rock, paper, tier list.

vonfinell

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
165
Location
Poised for a Zerg Rush on your Base
I'm personally in favor of the 'tires don exits' standpoint, because the way I see it (and this is purely in my opinion, I tried bringing this up in another thread and I got flamed) is that your skill at the game is your skill with the character. The reason Sheik or Marth are considered 'top tier' is just because a lot of people are very good with them. If a pro came up who had trained really hard with Pichu, then suddenly he would start creeping up the list.
I'm not saying that everything is completely balanced, nor do I believe that Pichu is actually a character that could feasibly be used (my theory excludes certain clone characters) but I still think that Melee is one of the most balanced fighting games I've ever played, except perhaps a few of the later MK games (although I hear people have broken Deception).
Really, the existence of tiers is purely based on how you view skill. As I choose to look at it, your main character is your weapon, and your ability at the game is how well you can wield that weapon. Nunchaku are more difficult to master than Katanas, but does that make them a worse weapon? In the end the differences in amount of practice needed for each character is so small that in the end it doesn't really matter. Not all characters are balanced, and quite frankly I don't think it's possible to create a fighting game where characters are both diverse and balanced, but it's as close as we can hope. Let's just pray it becomes closer in Brawl.
That's just my opinion, please don't kill me.

As for the Rock Paper Scissors idea, I think that it could work if polished very carefully. However, this could lead to several problems, like all characters being clones of each other within their classes, or the fight being decided before it has even begun. I think that perhaps it would work a little better if you had individual moves be useful against different types of characters. For example, Samus' Charge Blast can throw a light character clean off the stage, but her Missiles are better for piercing through a heavy characters armor. It's a good idea on paper, but the little details would prove whether or not it works in practice.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
thats right, its not scripture. scripture is not testable. scripture is unchanging and not subject to human varibles and patterns. scripture is a work of theroy and faith and not to be proven or disproven by logic.

no charts like the one wes gave us, combined with the data from professional success rates, are not scripture but a science. varables can be controled, isoladed, and tested. weaknesses and strengths can be quantified.

in other words, i agree with you. because sience states that new data can alwys alter the outcome. no such thing and a "perfect" scientific fact...

however, smash and been anilized to death over a very long perion of time. there is very little, if any, new data to be descovered.

so its accurate to say "witht he data we currently have avalible to us; Fox is currently better than DK" it is also just as accurate to say "with the data we currently have avalible to us; The earth is round"
As far as we KNEW the Earth was round, it has been (relatively) recently been discovered to be, not a circle, but an ellipse, and as far as we know, it has certain specifications, but new information could still chance the specifications of the earth as we know it, especially related to electromagnetism and gravity, as well as the constant changes and irregularities on the surface of the earth.

Speaking simply, there is no accurate definition of what the earth is exactly, the regularities after all, only make it a basically an ellipse, not a true ellipse, and the equation of the ellipse is unknown beyond a certain point of understanding.

Which follows the point, you can always find new information that might totally change things, think of the mew glitch in pokemon red, how many years did it take to find it? With how large a community behind it?

Point, something could always be found to change things to a massive degree, and it's not as unlikely as one might think.An exploit that might make mewtwo top tier could very well be right around the corner.
 

KMB23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
236
i'm just wondering, what the heck is "super armor"???

and also, it won't be nearly as balanced as you say, i'm afraid. Half of the "bad" characters in brawl are probably going to be the ones with amazing final smashes, or who are really good with items, or at banned stages.
 

Homelessvagrant

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
1,966
Location
right here...at smashboards
3DS FC
5455-9417-5731
i'm just wondering, what the heck is "super armor"???

and also, it won't be nearly as balanced as you say, i'm afraid. Half of the "bad" characters in brawl are probably going to be the ones with amazing final smashes, or who are really good with items, or at banned stages.
Super armor is the ability to carry out a move without flinching. It could also just be the ability to stay in battle and not flinch as much. It helps supplement for the character that is slow. Also if Tournys declare final smashes broken, then all is for naught. Sakurais aiming this game for balance and he knows what Smash players look for.

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With this post though, The idea behind it would be that the overall advantages wouldn't be huge but relatively small forcing the player work for the win. Mario over Fox would be like how Fox is over Shiek in melee. Of course the main idea would be to make the game as balanced as possible, this would be a backup plan.
 
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