Robin Needs Some Serious Buffs ASAP

[Thegreenblur]

DISCLAIMER! I am not filled with knowledge of Smash 4. Frankly, Im just an idiot in general. So if you think I ****ed up or left something out, please let me know. Or if you want to tell me my opinion is stupid, I should rot in hell or anything else, just reply to the thread. I won't get mad |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Now before you start, I know every character can be good (hell Im a Robin main) but holy ****, Robin is just AWFUL right now. Allow me to explain.

His Projectile Game: This is Robins main way of attacking. His projectile game is good if you're good at reads, but other than that no. His projectiles (aside from Thoron. Which you can only use three times before the tome breaks) Are slow, take too long to cast, and are really predictable. On top of the fact that his tomes run on durability (even his Up B which is linked to his Jab. I'll get to that later) which is unique and pays homage to his game and all, but its his greatest weakness. With his tomes having no plus side and a HUGE downside, it really puts Robin below pretty much any character in the game that can shoot projectiles. (Hell, Mewtwos Shadow Ball Does almost DOUBLE the damage of Robins Thoron, takes less time to charge, and has no limits.) But there is a silver lining in this. This makes Robin a character you need to REALLY think with while playing as him. Also, when a Tome (or his Levin Sword) breaks, you can grab it if you're fast enough and throw it back at the opponent for some serious damage. But that too, comes with a downside. The enemy can just catch your tome or levin sword and throw it right back at you. Also, the time you have to grab the tome or levin sword is only 2 to 3 seconds.

Some Changes to His Projectile Game I think would be a huge help:
Remove Durability. Its an unnecessary downside with there already being almost no upsides. OR They can decrease the time it takes to charge Thunder, and give the tomes more uses.

His Physical Game: Ho boy, this is where Robin really just BLOWS. First of all, he is the slowest character in the game aside from Hyper Shield Kirby and Shulk. His rolls are not fast enough for someone who really needs to play a defensive game to make up for having the speed of a potato. His main ways of racking up damage with Physical attacks are his Elwind Jab, Arcfire Jab and the Levin Sword. The Elwind Jab is GREAT for reading rolls and playing mind games with your opponent. If they get away, you can keep it going and hope they expected you to stop and charge at you. But the Elwind Jab has one glaring weakness, IT TAKES AWAY USES FROM HIS ELWIND B MOVE (Which is his recovery) So if you rely on this for damage because the projectiles aren't working, you can kiss your ass goodbye when you get off stage because your tome is going to break. Now his Arcfire Jab. This is good for launching your opponents at high percentages. But it takes a use of Arcfire. But that's not THAT much of a problem compared to the Elwind Jab. Finally the Levin Sword. This is good for reading rolls or playing mind games with down smash. But don't use it too much or you're stuck defending yourself with the bronze sword (which its ONE OK use is in his Dash Attack.)

Some Changes to His Physical game I think would be a huge help:
Along with the statement made in what I think could help his projectile game, Robin could use a speed buff (but this doesn't need to happen as long as these other changes do) A Faster Roll, And if they chose to keep durability they could make Robin's jabs not be connected to his tome usage. Also, retract that nerf he got to his Elwind jab. He DID NOT need that. They could also give his Levin Sword some more uses. (On a side note, if they could give his Nair a buff, that would help)

Who does Robin stand a chance against in my opinion?
Bowser
Gannondorf
King Dedede
Donkey Kong
Mii Sword Fighter *snicker*
Warios who spam the hell out of their bike
People who don't know how to doge projectiles. All 2 of them out there.

Now do I think all of these changes should happen? Yes. But over time. Gradually give Robin buffs from patch to patch to allow people to adjust. You can't just change a character THAT much in one patch. *cough cough* Ike *cough cough*( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) But these need to happen. Robin has stayed mostly the same aside from a few MINOR nerfs while A LOT of characters have been getting buffed.

 

[ARGHETH]

His projectiles (aside from Thoron. Which you can only use three times before the tome breaks) Are slow, take too long to cast, and are really predictable.

That's why Customs exist.

On top of the fact that his tomes run on durability (even his Up B which is linked to his Jab. I'll get to that later) which is unique and pays homage to his game and all, but its his greatest weakness. With his tomes having no plus side and a HUGE downside, it really puts Robin below pretty much any character in the game that can shoot projectiles. (Hell, Mewtwos Shadow Ball Does almost DOUBLE the damage of Robins Thoron, takes less time to charge, and has no limits.) But there is a silver lining in this. This makes Robin a character you need to REALLY think with while playing as him. Also, when a Tome (or his Levin Sword) breaks, you can grab it if you're fast enough and throw it back at the opponent for some serious damage. But that too, comes with a downside. The enemy can just catch your tome or levin sword and throw it right back at you. Also, the time you have to grab the tome or levin sword is only 2 to 3 seconds.

You pretty much said it. The tomes/sword are a HUGE upside, doing some of the best knockback/damage in Robin's arsenal. And plus, if your opponent is catching it consistently...you're doing it wrong.

Some Changes to His Projectile Game I think would be a huge help:
Remove Durability. Its an unnecessary downside with there already being almost no upsides. OR They can decrease the time it takes to charge Thunder, and give the tomes more uses.

...remove durability? Remove the throwable items? Remove one of the only things discouraging spamming?

So if you rely on this for damage because the projectiles aren't working, you can kiss your *** goodbye when you get off stage because your tome is going to break.

It only takes a few seconds to reappear, though, and has 18 total uses anyways.

But don't use it too much or you're stuck defending yourself with the bronze sword (which its ONE OK use is in his Dash Attack.)

You spelled Nair wrong.

Also, retract that nerf he got to his Elwind jab. He DID NOT need that.

But all he got was a (rather large) buff and a bug fix....

(On a side note, if they could give his Nair a buff, that would help)

Lol Raziek would love that.

Who does Robin stand a chance against in my opinion?
Bowser
Gannondorf
King Dedede
Donkey Kong
Mii Sword Fighter *snicker*
Warios who spam the hell out of their bike
People who don't know how to doge projectiles. All 2 of them out there.

Mii Sword Fighter isn't that bad anymore. I don't think many people consider him the worst anymore.

While buffs would be really nice, I wouldn't say he needs them. He isn't that good, has glaring flaws, and probably is among the characters who most want them, but nowhere near needs them.

TL;DR: Some points, but exaggerates a LOT.

 

[LIQUID12A]

ARGHETH already said what I would have, so have my representation of incredulity at this post.

Except...

His Physical Game: Ho boy, this is where Robin really just BLOWS.

As a zoner, Robin is bound to have a somewhat lackluster close-up game. It's just how you apply his tools in that situation that makes it easier or harder at close range.

 

[Tattles]

If you're not willing to play a character that has extreme flaws (and strengths), then Robin is definitely not the character for you.

All of this stuff is the way it is by design. Take away the flaws, you lose Robin. What do you get? A ****ing beyond broken character that has literally everything.

The absolute ONLY buffs Robin "needs" is being able to know when you have 1 tome charge left (solution being, making it a solid grey), and a better grab.

 

[Nah]

His Projectile Game: This is Robins main way of attacking. His projectile game is good if you're good at reads, but other than that no. His projectiles (aside from Thoron. Which you can only use three times before the tome breaks) Are slow, take too long to cast, and are really predictable. On top of the fact that his tomes run on durability (even his Up B which is linked to his Jab. I'll get to that later) which is unique and pays homage to his game and all, but its his greatest weakness. With his tomes having no plus side and a HUGE downside, it really puts Robin below pretty much any character in the game that can shoot projectiles. (Hell, Mewtwos Shadow Ball Does almost DOUBLE the damage of Robins Thoron, takes less time to charge, and has no limits.) But there is a silver lining in this. This makes Robin a character you need to REALLY think with while playing as him. Also, when a Tome (or his Levin Sword) breaks, you can grab it if you're fast enough and throw it back at the opponent for some serious damage. But that too, comes with a downside. The enemy can just catch your tome or levin sword and throw it right back at you. Also, the time you have to grab the tome or levin sword is only 2 to 3 seconds.

His Physical Game: Ho boy, this is where Robin really just BLOWS. First of all, he is the slowest character in the game aside from Hyper Shield Kirby and Shulk.

His rolls are not fast enough for someone who really needs to play a defensive game to make up for having the speed of a potato. His main ways of racking up damage with Physical attacks are his Elwind Jab, Arcfire Jab and the Levin Sword. The Elwind Jab is GREAT for reading rolls and playing mind games with your opponent. If they get away, you can keep it going and hope they expected you to stop and charge at you. But the Elwind Jab has one glaring weakness, IT TAKES AWAY USES FROM HIS ELWIND B MOVE (Which is his recovery) So if you rely on this for damage because the projectiles aren't working, you can kiss your *** goodbye when you get off stage because your tome is going to break. Now his Arcfire Jab. This is good for launching your opponents at high percentages. But it takes a use of Arcfire. But that's not THAT much of a problem compared to the Elwind Jab. Finally the Levin Sword. This is good for reading rolls or playing mind games with down smash. But don't use it too much or you're stuck defending yourself with the bronze sword (which its ONE OK use is in his Dash Attack.)

Jigglypuff is also slower on the ground than Robin (Jiggles actually has the worst ground mobility in the game iirc), and Ganondorf is overall slower than Robin is too. And at least her rolls aren't Samus's slow-ass rolls.

You also could use more tilts and aerials in your life. You're supposed to use all of Robin's moves together and not rely on one or a few specific moves like, say, Captain Falcon or Luigi does. All of her Bronze Sword attacks (especially Nair and Jab) have their uses except for Dair which is ****. Not saying that they're amazing but they help. Levin Sword only takes like 6 seconds to come back anyway.

But I do kinda understand your frustration with Robin a little bit. She's not an easy character to learn and doesn't have godly frame data or braindead throw combos or a super amazing move or a star baby to protect her and stuff.

The absolute ONLY buffs Robin "needs" is being able to know when you have 1 tome charge left (solution being, making it a solid grey), and a better grab.

And for Nosferatu to not put you into special fall/helpless state when used successfully in the air

 

[PK Gaming]

Your OP is annoying and you're off base on a few things, but overall—yeah, Robin could use a hand. Not a complete overhaul mind you, but a few key QoL tweaks.

 

[LochTessMonster]

I really only want three things from Robin. a slightly buffed running speed, nothing serious, just maybe outrun Ganondorf or something similar, a increase in grab range, and finally to actually have a throw which could lead to something. While Robin's throws are fairly powerful, almost none of them have reliable follow ups. Her upthrow and backthrow have zero follow up possiblity, they simply send the opponent too far. Down throw while not sending the opponent very far has little hitstun, meaning your opponent can simply jump or airdodge out of the way. I have managed to use forward throw to reasonable success. It has a very flat trajectory, with ridiculously low knockback scaling. You can follow it up with a thoron on stage, maybe go for a spike/Nair off stage, but none of these are very reliable and rely on a large amount of reading or conditioning your opponent.
And I agree with what all the commentors have been saying about Robin. There's very little that 100% needs buffing, just things we'd all like and can pray to Naga for.

 

[Thegreenblur]

I really only want three things from Robin. a slightly buffed running speed, nothing serious, just maybe outrun Ganondorf or something similar, a increase in grab range, and finally to actually have a throw which could lead to something. While Robin's throws are fairly powerful, almost none of them have reliable follow ups. Her upthrow and backthrow have zero follow up possiblity, they simply send the opponent too far. Down throw while not sending the opponent very far has little hitstun, meaning your opponent can simply jump or airdodge out of the way. I have managed to use forward throw to reasonable success. It has a very flat trajectory, with ridiculously low knockback scaling. You can follow it up with a thoron on stage, maybe go for a spike/Nair off stage, but none of these are very reliable and rely on a large amount of reading or conditioning your opponent.
And I agree with what all the commentors have been saying about Robin. There's very little that 100% needs buffing, just things we'd all like and can pray to Naga for.

That could be enough. Just anything to help with his defensive game would be great. And I've had reasonable success by playing mind games with my back throw. I don't know why this works but I back throw and roll into them and catch them off guard with a Smash Attack, another grab or Nosferatu. I wouldn't recommended always doing that because they WILL catch on and destroy you.

 

[LochTessMonster]

That could be enough. Just anything to help with his defensive game would be great. And I've had reasonable success by playing mind games with my back throw. I don't know why this works but I back throw and roll into them and catch them off guard with a Smash Attack, another grab or Nosferatu. I wouldn't recommended always doing that because they WILL catch on and destroy you.

Hmm interesting. I've never tried that. You could probably even follow it up with a LSBair for a clean kill, although it would take a good read/baiting out an airdodge.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Yeah, in all my time playing Robin, any buffs he/she could possibly use are very minor, but would help make the rest of his moveset outside of specials and most physicals more viable. Minor run speed buff and dodgeroll speed buff are also desirable.

I don't know about the rest of ya's, but do you find yourself jumping more often than moving on the ground with Robin? I find myself doing it a little more often than ground options because he/she covers more distance and height at a medium-fast pace and has access to his/her better aerial options.

 

[Thegreenblur]

Hmm interesting. I've never tried that. You could probably even follow it up with a LSBair for a clean kill, although it would take a good read/baiting out an airdodge.

I wouldn't recommend it. I just seem to get

Yeah, in all my time playing Robin, any buffs he/she could possibly use are very minor, but would help make the rest of his moveset outside of specials and most physicals more viable. Minor run speed buff and dodgeroll speed buff are also desirable.

I don't know about the rest of ya's, but do you find yourself jumping more often than moving on the ground with Robin? I find myself doing it a little more often than ground options because he/she covers more distance and height at a medium-fast pace and has access to his/her better aerial options.

No, I never find myself jumping. Every time I'm in the air as Robin its a HUGE problem for me. I wish he had a better Nair for a more defensive air game. or just better aerials in case you rung out of you Levin Sword. Otherwise I always find myself getting juggled and struggling to get back on to the ground.

 

[LochTessMonster]

I wouldn't recommend it. I just seem to get


No, I never find myself jumping. Every time I'm in the air as Robin its a HUGE problem for me. I wish he had a better Nair for a more defensive air game. or just better aerials in case you rung out of you Levin Sword. Otherwise I always find myself getting juggled and struggling to get back on to the ground.

No, I never find myself jumping. Every time I'm in the air as Robin its a HUGE problem for me. I wish he had a better Nair for a more defensive air game. or just better aerials in case you rung out of you Levin Sword. Otherwise I always find myself getting juggled and struggling to get back on to the ground.

There's your biggest problem. Robin's saving grace aside from his specials are his aerials, mostly the LS ones but BS can be effective too. Robin has above average airspeed and falls relatively slow. Plus you can combine his airspeed with b-reversing to keep your opponents guessing on where you're going to land. And his Nair is actually very good. It's got deceiving range, starts on frame 9(pretty good, only move that's faster is his jab), and has an incredible gimping angle. Plus if people airdodge it, they can be hit by the second part of the attack, which has equal damage and knockback, and can send them into/under the stage for a stage spike. His LS aerials have great long range hit boxes and have priority over lots of other aerials or simply outreach them. His LSupair even cancels out almost any other dair in the game, at least from my experience.

 

[Silverfox117]

Honestly Robin just needs to have a few small buffs to make her viable, maybe less lag on her moves. She however does need a way to get people off of her and to reset the neutral. Also plz Sakurai give Robins tilts hit boxes plz and give me fire jab back plz.

 

[Raziek]

There's so much wrong in this thread I don't even know where to begin.

 

[ARGHETH]

There's so much wrong in this thread I don't even know where to begin.

I wish he had a better Nair for a more defensive air game. or just better aerials in case you rung out of you Levin Sword.

Maybe here?

 

[Coolpool2]

Your post feels so hyperbolic. I think Robin is in an alright place at the moment in the mid tier/lower upper tier. If they did things like remove durability we would constantly see FG arc fire spammers and it would just dumb down the character. Also it's not that hard to catch tomes and swords. They even flash when they are about to run out. Plus tomes do 18% when thrown and have good kill potential.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Yes, Robin sucks, we all know that (except for maybe some of the denialists). But your post reeks of not knowing anything about the character. Remove durability? The tomes are absolutely amazing. It just needs to have the cooldown time reduced, especially for Arcfire, Levin Sword, and Elwind.

The biggest things Robin needs are a faster dash speed (which will never happen); better framedata, especially on rolls, grab, and Arcfire; and true followups out of throws.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Hands down, worst thing to ever happen to Robin was not being able to ledgegrab from behind after Elwind freefall. That has to be one of the most absurd nerfs ever in this game, as it measures out absolutely ****ing nothing.

I wouldn't recommend it. I just seem to get


No, I never find myself jumping. Every time I'm in the air as Robin its a HUGE problem for me. I wish he had a better Nair for a more defensive air game. or just better aerials in case you rung out of you Levin Sword. Otherwise I always find myself getting juggled and struggling to get back on to the ground.

Listen to what @ LochTessMonster said. You should utilize N-Air more often, as it's extremely versatile. Quick frames, decent knockback, low cooldown, allows stagespikes, can throw off opponents with 2nd hit if animation and fall are properly timed. Sure, it never lands kills by itself, but your Levin aerials and specials are meant for that.

As for his/her other Bronze aerials, they lack in kill power, range, and damage for what they can do in speed. I find myself using F-Air and U-Air often to juggle, keep away, or resist incoming attacks. Outside of very laggy Levin Smashes and specials, Robin has a hard time keeping away with his/her tilts. There range is pathetically limited and require precise timing, making it best if you're dangerously close to your opponent. I do manage to get a couple combos with D-Tilt > F-Tilt or D-Tilt > Dash Attack with possible N-Air/F-Air followup on bulkier characters.

What do you guys think about making Robin's fallspeed a tad faster? Probably me not being able to set up, but I feel his/her Levin D-Air and 1st Elwind spikeboxes would be easier to connect given how delicate their active frames are. Also might make it easier to connect aerials, but still iffy on that.

There's so much wrong in this thread I don't even know where to begin.

Care to demonstrate?

 

[LochTessMonster]

Hands down, worst thing to ever happen to Robin was not being able to ledgegrab from behind after Elwind freefall. That has to be one of the most absurd nerfs ever in this game, as it measures out absolutely ****ing nothing.

I'm so glad they changed that, in the early days that lead to a lot of my untimely deaths

Listen to what @ LochTessMonster said. You should utilize N-Air more often, as it's extremely versatile. Quick frames, decent knockback, low cooldown, allows stagespikes, can throw off opponents with 2nd hit if animation and fall are properly timed. Sure, it never lands kills by itself, but your Levin aerials and specials are meant for that.

I have netted some great gimps with the Nair as i've mentioned before, it can also lead into a well spaced arcfire if they miss the tech.

As for his/her other Bronze aerials, they lack in kill power, range, and damage for what they can do in speed. I find myself using F-Air and U-Air often to juggle, keep away, or resist incoming attacks. Outside of very laggy Levin Smashes and specials, Robin has a hard time keeping away with his/her tilts. There range is pathetically limited and require precise timing, making it best if you're dangerously close to your opponent. I do manage to get a couple combos with D-Tilt > F-Tilt or D-Tilt > Dash Attack with possible N-Air/F-Air followup on bulkier characters.

Outside of very laggy Levin Smashes and specials, Robin has a hard time keeping away with his/her tilts.
Agreed. The more I use Robin the more I find myself in the air for damage racking and general attacks. Although if you get a close range Arcthunder you can follow up quickly with a Fsmash, that KO's pretty early. Compounding the problem is that Robin's tilts all have pathetic range and some of their hitboxes are broken.

What do you guys think about making Robin's fallspeed a tad faster? Probably me not being able to set up, but I feel his/her Levin D-Air and 1st Elwind spikeboxes would be easier to connect given how delicate their active frames are. Also might make it easier to connect aerials, but still iffy on that.

I think an increase in fall speed would overall be detrimental to Robin. Robin's already a tall and light character, so combo's are pretty easy to get on him, and an increase in fallspeed could lead to more combo problems. I'm thinking about how easy Fox is to combo when saying this. I think Robin's relatively floaty characteristics help his aerial game, as it allows you to spend more time in the air where he is far more dominant.

 

[Wnyke]

The only buff I want is either
more control in elwind so you can move freely after the first elwind and enter a helpless state after the second one...
Or an increase in the speed of elwind...
Anything else could use a buff but is not needed...

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

The only buff I want is either
more control in elwind so you can move freely after the first elwind and enter a helpless state after the second one...
Or an increase in the speed of elwind...
Anything else could use a buff but is not needed...

That sounds like it could be a custom move, as interesting as that sounds.

Still waiting for my Counter Nosferatu for quick lifesteal bursts.

 

[QuantumKiller]

Wishlist for daddy sakurai!
1. A Less laggy Arc-Fire
2. Faster dash/run speed
3. Good tilt hitboxes (I want a usable uptilt more than anything)
4. Less lag on missed grabs
5. A slightly faster roll
6. Nerf Greninja

Other than that Robin is still an excellent character honestly. These thing would raise her potential three-fold.

 

[ShanCold]

Oops I voted a 1 instead of a 10.

But hey I just wanted to say I'm not great but Robin is definitely the most fun character I've played. If you think s/he isn't strong enough just don't use him/her for your competitive games. It's not like Robin can't win though, in fact, I think Robin has a slight but noticeable advantage against a lot of characters.

 

[Astellius]

Robin is a great character as is, but here are a few things I would like to see...

1) Slightly faster run/rolls. I mean, come on Robin, run, don't walk.

2) Choose which sword to use in the air. This may stir up some disagreement, but I think that it would be interesting if you could control whether you used the Levin sword or the bronze sword every time you did an aerial attack. Most people talk about how the bronze sword sucks, but, sometimes, in the air, it's really fast and the best way to get a quick hit in. There is no way to immediately revert back to the bronze sword after you activate the Levin sword. I would kind of like to see: regular aerials = bronze sword, aerial smashes = Levin. I mean, Robin has impressive aerial game with the Levin sword, and it becomes lackluster when it's reduced to just the bronze sword, but a combo where you could choose which one might open up Robin's aerial game even more.

3) No freefall after aerial Nosferatu... I mean, WTF, you pull off a REALLY hard aerial Nosferatu, and then you just plummet helplessly to your death. That's dumb.

4) Better grab reach... both with regular grabs and Nosferatu. With regular grabs, it's hard to be that close. With Nosferatu, it can be difficult to land due to a very small hitbox vs. animation of the spell.

5) Optional second Elwind. When you do Elwind, you automatically do two, but it would be great if you could choose to just do one ( and then maybe another later?). I mean, it can be hard to spike with Elwind in general, without the second Elwind hitting the character after the spike and thus undoing the spike.

Still, all said, Robin is awesome.

 

[LochTessMonster]

Robin is a great character as is, but here are a few things I would like to see...

1) Slightly faster run/rolls. I mean, come on Robin, run, don't walk.

I've always been okay with his rolls but yes, how is little Robin slower than 8 foot tall Ganondorf?

2) Choose which sword to use in the air. This may stir up some disagreement, but I think that it would be interesting if you could control whether you used the Levin sword or the bronze sword every time you did an aerial attack. Most people talk about how the bronze sword sucks, but, sometimes, in the air, it's really fast and the best way to get a quick hit in. There is no way to immediately revert back to the bronze sword after you activate the Levin sword. I would kind of like to see: regular aerials = bronze sword, aerial smashes = Levin. I mean, Robin has impressive aerial game with the Levin sword, and it becomes lackluster when it's reduced to just the bronze sword, but a combo where you could choose which one might open up Robin's aerial game even more.

Originally I was going to put an arguement here about how it wouldn't really be pheasible, but then I thought about Ryu. What if Robin's aerials were the same? You do a light tap and you get the bronze sword, heavy press you get the Levin sword, like Ryu's heavy and strong attacks.

3) No freefall after aerial Nosferatu... I mean, WTF, you pull off a REALLY hard aerial Nosferatu, and then you just plummet helplessly to your death. That's dumb.

No argument there

4) Better grab reach... both with regular grabs and Nosferatu. With regular grabs, it's hard to be that close. With Nosferatu, it can be difficult to land due to a very small hitbox vs. animation of the spell.

Yeah, Robin's grab range is abysmall, and his throws aren't very rewarding once you get the grab. I think Nosferatu should be kept the same, simply because it's a high risk high reward tool.

5) Optional second Elwind. When you do Elwind, you automatically do two, but it would be great if you could choose to just do one ( and then maybe another later?). I mean, it can be hard to spike with Elwind in general, without the second Elwind hitting the character after the spike and thus undoing the spike.

I don't see much use in this, currently there's no way for the second blade of Elwind to hit if the first spikes, and since the first blade of Elwind gives Robin such a pathetic vertical height gain, I don't think it would be of any use unless the vertical properites of each blade were changed changed.

Still, all said, Robin is awesome.

I think we're in agreement

 

[shane3x]

It would be nice if they improved his ability to be able to deal with rushdown characters. Having Rosa and villager high up is a breathe of fresh air to see that the meta doesn't have to revolve completely around zone breakers and rushdown.

 

[Silverfox117]

Robin is a great character as is, but here are a few things I would like to see...

1) Slightly faster run/rolls. I mean, come on Robin, run, don't walk.

2) Choose which sword to use in the air. This may stir up some disagreement, but I think that it would be interesting if you could control whether you used the Levin sword or the bronze sword every time you did an aerial attack. Most people talk about how the bronze sword sucks, but, sometimes, in the air, it's really fast and the best way to get a quick hit in. There is no way to immediately revert back to the bronze sword after you activate the Levin sword. I would kind of like to see: regular aerials = bronze sword, aerial smashes = Levin. I mean, Robin has impressive aerial game with the Levin sword, and it becomes lackluster when it's reduced to just the bronze sword, but a combo where you could choose which one might open up Robin's aerial game even more.

3) No freefall after aerial Nosferatu... I mean, WTF, you pull off a REALLY hard aerial Nosferatu, and then you just plummet helplessly to your death. That's dumb.

4) Better grab reach... both with regular grabs and Nosferatu. With regular grabs, it's hard to be that close. With Nosferatu, it can be difficult to land due to a very small hitbox vs. animation of the spell.

5) Optional second Elwind. When you do Elwind, you automatically do two, but it would be great if you could choose to just do one ( and then maybe another later?). I mean, it can be hard to spike with Elwind in general, without the second Elwind hitting the character after the spike and thus undoing the spike.

Still, all said, Robin is awesome.

This is just a response to well your second point you can kind of control whether or not you get a bronze sword Leffin sword in the air. If your holding the bronze sword you can lightly press the direction you want to which aerial and you will keep the bronze sword and you wont Leffin sword it up, but if you use the c stick it will change into the Lemon sword, so you can do things like BFair > LFair. However, once you have the Leggo sword equipped you can only get the bronze sword back if you do attacks that only use the bronze sword like tilts and nair.

Also number 3 is stupid who thought that was a good idea. It would be cool if we could get someone shielding on edge with Nosferatu but nope you just die.

 

[ShanCold]

Definitely have to agree with free fall after Nosferatu. That needs to be changed!

 

[ThatRandomGuy42]

My 'biggest' wish is a speed increase. Is there actually a reason Robin is a slow as he/she is? I mean, the only characters slower are Kirby and Shulk with the shield art.
Nosferatu could maybe use a time buff as well. 40 seconds is way too long for a tome to be gone for.
Maybe decrease the time it takes for Arcfire to come out as well.
Other than that, Robin is fine.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Robin is in an odd spot for many reasons.

It's fair to say that those few who still play her are devoted to the character. They know Robin in-depth and are able to, against most players, work around her flaws and still win. I actually suspect (but cannot prove) that Robin wins more often than they lose in For Glory due to this and this might be skewing Sakurai's perception of the character.

There are things he tried to buff but actually ended up nerfing by mistake. Robin's Jab behavior is the most notable of these. Yes, the revised Wind Jab helps against Sheik and a handful of others like Fox. Against most other characters, you can now be hit out of several of your jab strings. I consider this a deal-breaker and have been playing her far, far less than usual. 'My jab works properly' needs to be one of the most obvious things done in a character's QA process. It should be the very first thing checked after "character crashes game upon selection". I expect better of a Jab that consumes my horizontal stage control/combo-builder move or my recovery. And yes, I have died from running out of Elwind trying to integrate even a few Wind Jabs into my play. Not often, but those times it did happen remain very keen in my mind.

Movement speed... I get it. Sakurai wants us to intelligently pick our spots and craft a game plan around that place since we will be staying there due to the low speed. That's kind of Fire Emblem-y. It bugs me, but I get what he's going for here. I'd like some improvements, but I understand they're outside the idea intended for this character.

Tome ejection needs to stay. That is such a fun part of the character that I can't imagine giving it up. Durability is a Fire Emblem core mechanic, forcing the player to care about war logistics.

This just leaves the risk and reward for our moves. Right now the following things keep me from playing Robin much:

- Broken jab, as mentioned above. Even with the changes, a lot of characters can escape Wind Jab's finisher even on minimum duration. This sucks.

- Arcfire is too easily neutralized for how long it takes to recover from. I've had opponents slip out of it after being hit. I've had them just casually roll past it on reaction and ream me for it. In theory that means 'Arcfire smarter', but even if I predict them moving in like that it's often hard to punish, they simply outfight Robin up close.

- Vulnerable recovery. I have to get super precise about how I arc my Elwinds to get back to the ledge, otherwise I tend to eat spikes a lot.

- If my moves are going to be limited in use, I expect them to be superior versions of comparable specials, not merely on par with or weaker. Thunder is harder to charge than Samus' Charge Shot due to using by-stage rather than net-time-spent charging. At its full power it's not even as good as the Charge Shot. Why? Granted I understand making it a Beam will take some power away, but... it still feels like too much. Meanwhile Levin Sword attacks are honestly not much better (if any at all) than unlimited-use normals by many better characters. 11 on a LSFair? Palutena gets that. Ryu outdoes it with his f-air. Ness can use his to wall out opponents. Peach's is outright a kill move.

It's very telling that I can spend just a few weeks with characters like Peach or Ryu and do far better than I do with Robin, who I have played nearly since game launch. Robin might not be completely hopeless, but she does need improvements in order to be relevant in higher level play.

EDIT: Oh, also. Others have mentioned it before but since I actually play Swordfighter: "Swordfighter is not a free win for Robin. He's a decent character now, and you should quit laughing at him."

 

[FieryRebirth]

I admit the question has not befallen me since Robin is my main. Robin is definitely my favorite character as it lets me effectively play mindgames with him/her. Why? Probably because I know Robin is not an attractive character in terms of performance. People like speed, easy combos, and hard-hitters, which Robin fundamentally lacks; but rather his projectiles is his game - and that's about it. Plus, how vulnerable he becomes when people get up to his face and stay there. Not adrenaline-inducing(Getting 3 KOs at once with Thoron has lost it's charm sadly)is a turn-off for the common player of Smash 4.

I take advantage of the many 1v1 FG opponents who never seen a Robin before, but how long is this going to last?

 

[Casey Chase]

There's something that you all have forgotten that warrants buffs. Robin's taunts.
tbh i would really like a better grab
Up-taunt is a pretty good move. Male Robin's is slightly less powerful, though, as he doesn't actually say "Time to tip the scales!", just "Let's tip the scales". That one needs a buff.
and for aerial nosferatu not to suck
Side-taunt is fine as it is. A bit situational, but definitely usable.
a speed buff would be nice but isn't really necessary
Down-taunt tips the scales in male Robin's favor, though. In terms of raw disrespecting power, male Robin's has much more strength. Female Robin's down-taunt is laggy and easily punishable, and the mental damage it deals to your opponent is minimal ("Here I go!", really?).

I dunno guys, I think I may have to switch characters if this keeps up. Female Robin gets completely outclassed by most characters. I'm glad I've been saving male Robin as a secondary.

 

[Astellius]

Down-taunt tips the scales in male Robin's favor, though. In terms of raw disrespecting power, male Robin's has much more strength. Female Robin's down-taunt is laggy and easily punishable, and the mental damage it deals to your opponent is minimal ("Here I go!", really?)..

Yeah, agreed. At the speed she runs, where does she think she's going? If I taunt, I usually want to remind myself and everyone else just what time it is.

However, female Robin does have the advantage for end quotes, especially against Lucina. "How can you protect Chrom if you can't protect yourself?!" Lol. Checkmate!

 

[megabbaut]

I wish they buffed Arcfire to trap the opponent more. It feels so aggrivating when it only hits once or twice then they shield/roll out of it.

 

[ZombieBran]

I'm picking up Robin.

The fact that we need customs for a great projectile game is extremely disheartening, as customs were implemented haphazardly and I'd rather keep them for fun games only.

 

[Snifflets]

Except our projectile game is really solid without customs. We can't be spamming mindlessly like the rest of the cast but it's all part of our kit. I also think our customs (Thunder and Arcfire variants) are really well implemented compared to other characters. They give us choices for which we need in what matchups, as opposed to some other characters who have a 'strictly best' for each slot.

 

[Astellius]

Our projectile game is excellent. However, Robin has a very high learning curve, so she's really hard to pick up and get going with. It takes a lot of practice to master Robin, but, once you do, Robin is an extremely formidable foe. Some things to think about with regards to Robin's projectiles:

- Arcfire places a temporary fire on the ground, whether it hits the opponent or not. This is extremely useful for a multitude of reasons. I don't always aim to hit my opponent with an arcfire, sometimes I just throw it on the ground to have an obstacle for my opponent to jump over, run into, or stay away from; to make a little barrier to suck up some of the little crap projectiles; or to eject the tome. Something that needs practice is the spacing for putting an arcfire directly on the ledge, as this is one of the best moves when your opponent is on the ledge. It prevents them from doing any real trick and coming back up to get you while it's there, and it has a little burst at the end that will hit them while they're on the ledge.
- Ejected tomes/Levin swords are part of Robin's projectile arsenal. These are some of the best projectiles in the game, because they are very powerful, travel far and fast, and kill at decent percentages.
- The ejection of tomes/Levin swords itself is something you can use as well; it's extra protection because the ejected item hurts the opponent and causes flinching if it hits them. They also go up and behind you, so, for all spells that you're ejecting, that hits in a different direction.
- Arcfire comes down at an angle from above you, which means a few things. It's okay if the thing gets reflected, insofar as the arcfire won't come back and hit you. It also affects how you should use it in when aiming in the air or on the ground, or at the ledge.
- Thunder charges by stages, not by microcharge (so if you stop charging, any time spent charging to the next stage will reset, and you will have to start at the beginning of that stage to reach the next one). The long charging stage is between elthunder and arcthunder, but once you get to arcthunder, it's really easy to get to thoron. While this can be annoying to charge by stage, it's also an effective way to make sure you have the option to choose which thunder spell to hold. Arcthunder and thoron are both unique and have different uses. You can use arcthunder as part of your edge recovery game, but not thoron (the end lag will kill you if you use it over the edge). Thoron crosses the entire stage instantaneously after the initial start lag, and it also travels in level with your body, so you can use it while coming down back onto the stage without having to worry about precise aiming.
- Elwind can be used as an anti-anti-aerial when you're falling back down from being knocked towards the sky. This, of course, needs good aiming, because it leaves you extremely vulnerable. Practice grabbing the ledge while falling from this (it's soooo easy to miss that ledge), and also practice being hard to read with the freefall landing, as you can do minor changes in directions and can trick an opponent into smashing the wrong direction when you land.

Well, this post ended up being waaay longer than I originally intended it to be, but hopefully it'll help some people in their strategic Robin-game.

 

[Thegreenblur]

Our projectile game is excellent. However, Robin has a very high learning curve, so she's really hard to pick up and get going with. It takes a lot of practice to master Robin, but, once you do, Robin is an extremely formidable foe. Some things to think about with regards to Robin's projectiles:

- Arcfire places a temporary fire on the ground, whether it hits the opponent or not. This is extremely useful for a multitude of reasons. I don't always aim to hit my opponent with an arcfire, sometimes I just throw it on the ground to have an obstacle for my opponent to jump over, run into, or stay away from; to make a little barrier to suck up some of the little crap projectiles; or to eject the tome. Something that needs practice is the spacing for putting an arcfire directly on the ledge, as this is one of the best moves when your opponent is on the ledge. It prevents them from doing any real trick and coming back up to get you while it's there, and it has a little burst at the end that will hit them while they're on the ledge.
- Ejected tomes/Levin swords are part of Robin's projectile arsenal. These are some of the best projectiles in the game, because they are very powerful, travel far and fast, and kill at decent percentages.
- The ejection of tomes/Levin swords itself is something you can use as well; it's extra protection because the ejected item hurts the opponent and causes flinching if it hits them. They also go up and behind you, so, for all spells that you're ejecting, that hits in a different direction.
- Arcfire comes down at an angle from above you, which means a few things. It's okay if the thing gets reflected, insofar as the arcfire won't come back and hit you. It also affects how you should use it in when aiming in the air or on the ground, or at the ledge.
- Thunder charges by stages, not by microcharge (so if you stop charging, any time spent charging to the next stage will reset, and you will have to start at the beginning of that stage to reach the next one). The long charging stage is between elthunder and arcthunder, but once you get to arcthunder, it's really easy to get to thoron. While this can be annoying to charge by stage, it's also an effective way to make sure you have the option to choose which thunder spell to hold. Arcthunder and thoron are both unique and have different uses. You can use arcthunder as part of your edge recovery game, but not thoron (the end lag will kill you if you use it over the edge). Thoron crosses the entire stage instantaneously after the initial start lag, and it also travels in level with your body, so you can use it while coming down back onto the stage without having to worry about precise aiming.
- Elwind can be used as an anti-anti-aerial when you're falling back down from being knocked towards the sky. This, of course, needs good aiming, because it leaves you extremely vulnerable. Practice grabbing the ledge while falling from this (it's soooo easy to miss that ledge), and also practice being hard to read with the freefall landing, as you can do minor changes in directions and can trick an opponent into smashing the wrong direction when you land.

Well, this post ended up being waaay longer than I originally intended it to be, but hopefully it'll help some people in their strategic Robin-game.

You pretty much just listed all my strategies/notes I already have for Robin.

I still stand by my statement that Robin is a bad character especially since I've been trying out characters like Sheik Villager and Rosalina and noticing how good they are compared to Robin. Does this mean Im ever going to drop Robin? Of course not. But I feel that pointing out the flaws in a character helps you know your weaknesses more and can help you win. My FG win rate is amazing (but lets be real, most people in for glory are absolute trash) but when I fight some of my friends who go to tournaments and such , I get ****ing destroyed. The rush down is just soemthing Robin can't handle like it or not, thats a cold hard fact. And after more experimentation with Robin I've managed to make a shorter list of buffs he/she could use;

Arcfire: Make it go faster. Thats all. This could help him deal with a rush down SIGNIFICANTLY!

Thunder: Make it like his custom Speed thunder but with his normal power. But this could be a tad broken so lower his tome uses or just dont increase the speed as much as Speed Thunder

Elwind: Take its uses away from the jab. You don't know how much times this has ****ed me when trying to get back on stage

Nosferatu: Nothing. I feel this ones fine

Air game: Give him something besides nosferatuing someone sheilding while bodying you. He doesn't need combos, just ways to not get destroyed in the air.

Physical game: Better tilts. Preferably an Up Tilt like Mario's. Also give his grab more range. Its like he has baby arms ffs. Im not saying make his grab Melee Marth levels of good, but a little buff would be nice.

Speed: Although I find it absurd that Robin is slower than Gannon, I feel it fits the character well. But give him better Rolls and Spot dodges.

Thats it. But not all of these changes should be brought on. It would instantly make Robin surpass Rosalina and Sheik in the tier lists. Just pick 2 or 3 from the list and thats enough. If anyone is still doubting me saying Robin's good enough and needs no changes, try fighting a tournament level player using any character they please and you'll be changing your mind ASAP. Robin just cant hold his own at the moment and anyone who says otherwise is frankly just delusional. But for Doubles...Robins a Top Tier doubles partner but that talk is for another day.

 

[Wnyke]

Everyone speaks from their exp...
mine has not been that bad in terms of controlling the game, sadly most of the stocks i've lost are due to be sent off stage and edgeguarded to death...

robin's elwind has no above hitbox/invinsibility/superarmor, meaning every hit that comes from above or even the sides will hurt, also that pseudo double jump just makes it slower giving enough time to rethink how to punish it, it leaves you in a freefall state so you can't use it as mobility, the only notable thing it has is the spike and is so disruptable and doesn't have any range that i just do it to be fancy, not as a killing tool...

every top/high tier character at least have an average recovery, so I'm hoping for a better recovery for robin instead of any damage/knockback/speed buff...

also up tilt should hit in front of you, i mean why the hell not?...

 

[Casey Chase]

I have a few issues with those buffs.
[collapse=Issues]

Arcfire: Make it go faster. Thats all. This could help him deal with a rush down SIGNIFICANTLY!

Firewall exists, you know. Apparently that's good. Anyone reading this, can you link me to a YT video of a Robin using Firewall effectively? I've never been good at it

Thunder: Make it like his custom Speed thunder but with his normal power. But this could be a tad broken so lower his tome uses or just dont increase the speed as much as Speed Thunder

...or just keep Speed Thunder as a custom

Elwind: Take its uses away from the jab. You don't know how much times this has ****ed me when trying to get back on stage

that's why the fire jab exists

Nosferatu: no special fall after landing it successfully in the air

FTFY

Air game: Give him something besides nosferatuing someone sheilding while bodying you. He doesn't need combos, just ways to not get destroyed in the air.

tbh I've always felt that Robin's aerial game is pretty good. LSUair and Nair are great tools that you are probably underutilizing. Also, tomahawking exists[/collapse]

Anyhow.

I feel that pointing out the flaws in a character helps you know your weaknesses more and can help you win.

This is true. However, that implies that you make do with those weaknesses in mind; it's not that you point them out so you can say "plzzz buff Robin omg". These are the cards we've been dealt.

My FG win rate is amazing (but lets be real, most people in for glory are absolute trash) but when I fight some of my friends who go to tournaments and such , I get ****ing destroyed.

Don't use FG to train. Play your friends more often or go on Anther's Ladder (which still has the occasional ****ty player but it's better than FG). From what it sounds like, you don't play with decent people often enough. Your skill at a character influences how good you feel they are compared to the rest of the cast which is why i still think robin is bad lol