Epsilon52
Smash Champion
theres no such thing as right or wrong. there are only situations in which choices are made. then its how much others gain or lose from that decision.
That said, more people would gain from having ridley playable then not
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Ridley as a playable character is BAD.......
- Thread starter plshrk729
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That said, more people would gain from having ridley playable then not
neoREgen
Smash Journeyman
Because of the way he's shaped, he tends to retract into that standing position as posted above, but when he attacks, he has ridiculous range.
If you made his height about even with the tallest character, the fact that he's retracted makes him de facto bigger. To compensate, they'd have to make him even smaller.
Unless you did actually make him really tiny (probably tinier or weaker than Charizard due to Charizard being stumpier and less like a coiled spring), he's going to have a lot of range.
Knowing this, you could make him slower, make his attacks weaker, or make him weigh next to nothing (and therefore get knocked around easily) to balance him.
Ridley by nature is none of these things, and while you could certainly do all of the above in moderate amounts, what you'd end up with is a creature that doesn't seem to move at all like Ridley moves.
So what do you do? Increase the speed and nerf his attacks and weight even more? Then you end up with a Ridley that looks good, has decent range and speed, but plays like Marth or Shiek, barely able to hit hard. You'd have pansy Ridley.
So forget that. Let's make him slower, but have his attacks hit pretty hard.
Then you're back to him not looking right in his movement.
Bowser and Ganondorf were both already more balanced in their games. They were heavy/slow/strong.
I'm not saying Ridley is too good because of Metroid's popularity. Ridley is exceptional because that is how he is portrayed in the Metroid series- heavy/fast/strong. It isn't the type of villain you see in everyday games. Most games innately fall into a more typical villain set up.
And yes, I'm mostly basing this on Prime considering in Super Metroid he doesn't really move his body at all. He just floats back and forth shooting fire and tailing, etc.
If you made his height about even with the tallest character, the fact that he's retracted makes him de facto bigger. To compensate, they'd have to make him even smaller.
Unless you did actually make him really tiny (probably tinier or weaker than Charizard due to Charizard being stumpier and less like a coiled spring), he's going to have a lot of range.
Knowing this, you could make him slower, make his attacks weaker, or make him weigh next to nothing (and therefore get knocked around easily) to balance him.
Ridley by nature is none of these things, and while you could certainly do all of the above in moderate amounts, what you'd end up with is a creature that doesn't seem to move at all like Ridley moves.
So what do you do? Increase the speed and nerf his attacks and weight even more? Then you end up with a Ridley that looks good, has decent range and speed, but plays like Marth or Shiek, barely able to hit hard. You'd have pansy Ridley.
So forget that. Let's make him slower, but have his attacks hit pretty hard.
Then you're back to him not looking right in his movement.
Bowser and Ganondorf were both already more balanced in their games. They were heavy/slow/strong.
I'm not saying Ridley is too good because of Metroid's popularity. Ridley is exceptional because that is how he is portrayed in the Metroid series- heavy/fast/strong. It isn't the type of villain you see in everyday games. Most games innately fall into a more typical villain set up.
And yes, I'm mostly basing this on Prime considering in Super Metroid he doesn't really move his body at all. He just floats back and forth shooting fire and tailing, etc.
Chaosblade77
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,958
Well, to be honest, that didn't stop them with Ike...
stfunerds
Smash Apprentice
Ridley keeps getting smaller and more human sized in every new iteration. I thought he was gonna be huge when fighting him in MP3 for the second match, but he was surprisingly small. So size really ain't a problem. I think Ridley would've been an awesome addition to the roster and I don't think he's too powerful if Samus can repeatedly defeat him. Besides Ganondorf was a god in TP, so a space dragon would've been fine.
@neoREgen:
You posted that somewhere else, and I'll say the same thing I did to that: his proportions are not set in stone. They don't stay exactly the same from game to game. He doesn't have to be ridiculously gangly - the proportions he has in the SSB Melee intro and the trophy of him in Melee look fine, and would be easily workable for a character.
You talk about the proportions of his limb length as if those have to remain fixed (and apparently fixed to the version of him that is the gangliest, so that your point works), and everything else has to change. Not so. The Melee model would have made a great basis for a Brawl playable character..
You posted that somewhere else, and I'll say the same thing I did to that: his proportions are not set in stone. They don't stay exactly the same from game to game. He doesn't have to be ridiculously gangly - the proportions he has in the SSB Melee intro and the trophy of him in Melee look fine, and would be easily workable for a character.
You talk about the proportions of his limb length as if those have to remain fixed (and apparently fixed to the version of him that is the gangliest, so that your point works), and everything else has to change. Not so. The Melee model would have made a great basis for a Brawl playable character..
Ok....you basically summarized what I had previously stated, then contradicted yourself by stating a fact based on your opinion. lolz...theres no such thing as right or wrong. there are only situations in which choices are made. then its how much others gain or lose from that decision.
That said, more people would gain from having ridley playable then not
Epsilon52
Smash Champion
lol silly me....i think im too tired to debate for tonight
I thought it was a fact based on the relative number of people who prefer Ridley as a boss compared to those who wanted him as a PC.
Obviously we haven't taken a poll, but I think the latter outnumber the former.
Epsilon52
Smash Champion
my thoughts exactly...someone make a poll
neoREgen
Smash Journeyman
Some of you continue to contrive my argument as an argument about size only. It isn't. I've long been against size-based arguments as well.
I wish I still had Photoshop. That's really the only way I could show you what I'm trying to say.
So far the counter-arguments are no better than "they could make it work," but I haven't seen anyone show me how they could do that.
I have a feeling the Melee intro has an angle problem going on... not only that, but I think the Ridley shown in that looks horrible.
Indeed Ridley's proportions do change, and if I had Photoshop, that would be something I could investigate- how he'd work through his incarnations.
I take my position in the argument though because I do assume the team tried, and I believe they made the best choices they could. We think "they could do it, look at the other exceptions to the rules..." but I think there's something more going on here.
I wish I still had Photoshop. That's really the only way I could show you what I'm trying to say.
So far the counter-arguments are no better than "they could make it work," but I haven't seen anyone show me how they could do that.
I have a feeling the Melee intro has an angle problem going on... not only that, but I think the Ridley shown in that looks horrible.
Indeed Ridley's proportions do change, and if I had Photoshop, that would be something I could investigate- how he'd work through his incarnations.
I take my position in the argument though because I do assume the team tried, and I believe they made the best choices they could. We think "they could do it, look at the other exceptions to the rules..." but I think there's something more going on here.
To everyone who says that he'd be ackward to implement: R.O.B.
Except they don't share the same body design. Charizard is thickly-built with relatively stubby arms and legs. Ridley is very thin and lanky with a long reach.I think the reason we didn't get Ridley is because he'd be too much like Charizard. They share the same body design, basically.
The_Corax_King
Smash Lord
I proposed this idea in the ridley thread but of course i was endlessly flamed...
What is ridley to the metroid series?
A BOSS...
a big boss...
he has never had a character... he is simply a monster that fights samus...
What is ridley to the metroid series?
A BOSS...
a big boss...
he has never had a character... he is simply a monster that fights samus...
lolololol thats what Im thinkin down scaling him would take away from its awesomeness, its like downscaling a character like mother brain or metroid prime to make them more acceptable within a roster he's in the game as a boss, and thats way more awesome, I never wanted to play as gigabowser but I loved being able to wail on him
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