Rex Drives into Battle! (...As Pyra's Final Smash!!)

[Starlight Liger]

You seem to be thinking about this backwards. Besides, they can fight alone, but it took Rex for them to reach their full potential. And do you honestly think that with how DLC has gone, they aren't going to try to replicate them as faithfully as possible? Having them fight without Rex just seems...wrong.

Also bear in mind that Addam was still around when Mythra fought, so it wasn't like she was without a driver.

It's ultimately down to Sakurai and Monolith Soft. Like I said earlier, if it can be done then they'll do it, otherwise, they'll happily ditch Rex just for Pyra/Mythra because that's the fighter everybody wants to see. Rex can't battle without Pyra/Mythra, Pyra/Mythra can battle without Rex.

 

[Arthur97]

It's ultimately down to Sakurai and Monolith Soft. Like I said earlier, if it can be done then they'll do it, otherwise, they'll happily ditch Rex just for Pyra/Mythra because that's the fighter everybody wants to see. Rex can't battle without Pyra/Mythra, Pyra/Mythra can battle without Rex.

I mean...he did fight without them. Just like Shulk fought without the Monado. They even both had "Junk Swords." Even then there are points where they are not available to use.

And while I won't deny wanting Pyra and Mythra myself, don't underestimate Rex himself.

Besides, other than modeling and voice work, mechanically they should be able to do similar things with him as they could with just the Aegis girls. A few standard moves may be out of the question, but you gain access to his anchor. A timing and/or switching mechanic could still work, and they don't have to have affinity do anything. Maybe just a visual thing that turns off with too many fighters if that.

 

[fogbadge]

It's ultimately down to Sakurai and Monolith Soft. Like I said earlier, if it can be done then they'll do it, otherwise, they'll happily ditch Rex just for Pyra/Mythra because that's the fighter everybody wants to see. Rex can't battle without Pyra/Mythra, Pyra/Mythra can battle without Rex.

why do you think theyd happily ditch rex?

 

[Starlight Liger]

why do you think theyd happily ditch rex?

In the event that programming Rex with Pyra/Mythra doesn't seem feasible, Rex can be eliminated and Pyra/Mythra can be the sole fighter. That's my case. If Rex and Pyra/Mythra can be both programmed in as a singular fighter then I'll happily support Rex and Pyra/Mythra.

 

[fogbadge]

In the event that programming Rex with Pyra/Mythra doesn't seem feasible, Rex can be eliminated and Pyra/Mythra can be the sole fighter. That's my case. If Rex and Pyra/Mythra can be both programmed in as a singular fighter then I'll happily support Rex and Pyra/Mythra.

but you said they as in the smash team, why would they happily leave out rex and not pyra/mythra?

 

[PSIGuy]

I think there's a few different levels of compromise they could try:

The ideal is Rex & Aegis fighting Ice Climbers style (both are actual 'fighters', affected by knockback properly, have moves that require them to be together, gimping one and then focusing on the other is a valid tactic etc). This would be the most work but also be the most fun and most interesting.
If that doesn't work, downgrade to Rosalina & Luma style (Rex is an actual fighter, Aegis gets set knockback and more static movements, mirrors Rex's attacks and specials, managing their position relative to you is needed with a recall etc). This is a good compromise.
If THAT doesn't work... Pokemon Trainer 'style' (they run around in the background doing nothing of note, maybe switch places during Blade Specials). This would be kinda lame, honestly, but it'd get them in.

I can't see them immediately giving up just because their first idea can't be fully realized.

 

[fogbadge]

I can't see them immediately giving up just because their first idea can't be fully realized.

and if worse comes to worst have the aegis be off screen like with the duo

 

[Arthur97]

But they aren't supposed to fight at the same time. They use the same weapon, and unless they dust off the junk sword, Rex wouldn't have a weapon of his own. Bear in mind they've been trying to stay pretty faithful, and only the active fighter takes damage in the game, so it seems unlikely they'd have a hitbox at all. Yes, Torna exists, but that's not the main game, and Rex wasn't playable in Torna.

 

[Starlight Liger]

but you said they as in the smash team, why would they happily leave out rex and not pyra/mythra?

In the event that programming Rex with Pyra/Mythra doesn't seem feasible, Rex can be eliminated and Pyra/Mythra can be the sole fighter. That's my case. If Rex and Pyra/Mythra can be both programmed in as a singular fighter then I'll happily support Rex and Pyra/Mythra.

 

[PSIGuy]

But they aren't supposed to fight at the same time. They use the same weapon, and unless they dust off the junk sword, Rex wouldn't have a weapon of his own. Bear in mind they've been trying to stay pretty faithful, and only the active fighter takes damage in the game, so it seems unlikely they'd have a hitbox at all. Yes, Torna exists, but that's not the main game, and Rex wasn't playable in Torna.

Blade Specials are literally them fighting at the same time. There's also the matter of making the fighter interesting, which having them both be valid targets acquires. If you just want to play as Rex by himself, there's an option for you to do that - it's called a Mii Costume.

 

[Arthur97]

Blade Specials are literally them fighting at the same time. There's also the matter of making the fighter interesting, which having them both be valid targets acquires. If you just want to play as Rex by himself, there's an option for you to do that - it's called a Mii Costume.

Not really. They pass the weapon back and forth. Even the level IV which does involve the driver doesn't have them attack at the same time for most of them (the Aegis girls being exceptions, but even then there's only one weapon and it's not like they're running around doing their own thing, they stay close together for those). They generally take turns. That's how combat in XC2 works. Part of why the Ice Climbers work is that they both have weapons. That doesn't work here. And Pyra and Mythra never had HP in the main game, why would they have hitboxes in Smash?

And don't insult me with costume.

 

[PSIGuy]

And Pyra and Mythra never had HP in the main game, why would they have hitboxes in Smash?

Ignoring that they literally share Rex's HP because of the whole shared core crystal thing. Because it's not the main game? Joker never had to build up a meter to summon a Persona, Terry never had an overhead kick, etc. Adapting different kinds of characters and mechanics to be fun in a different setting is the entire point. It's not like targeting a Blade is an invalid tactic (a boss hides behind his Blade, Mythra one-shots Sever and Obrona, etc), and in the context of them sharing % it makes even more sense.

 

[Arthur97]

Ignoring that they literally share Rex's HP because of the whole shared core crystal thing. Because it's not the main game? Joker never had to build up a meter to summon a Persona, Terry never had an overhead kick, etc. Adapting different kinds of characters and mechanics to be fun in a different setting is the entire point. It's not like targeting a Blade is an invalid tactic (a boss hides behind his Blade, Mythra one-shots Sever and Obrona, etc), and in the context of them sharing % it makes even more sense.

But if the driver is there, you target the driver. And, what exactly would the other one do? Are they really just there to hard lock Rex out of certain moves if they aren't close? Since one of them would be weaponless most of the time, that means the fighter essentially becomes an escort mission, and those are notoriously unfun. You know what Rex does while they do blade specials? A silly little arm pump. You know what they mostly do while he's fighting? Stand there with an outstretched arm. Not exactly riveting gameplay. Unlike the ICs, one is often defenseless if given a hurtbox and is likely a passive buff anyway and a requirement for some moves anyway, so why not just spare some misery and have them intangible like the Pokemon Trainers and follow Rex around occasionally helping out with blade specials? You know, like they do in the game. Could even have them necessary for some moves, just make it so if Rex is knocked too far away too quickly or something, he loses affinity.

And you're not talking adding an extra move, this is adding unnecessary difficulty to the fighter of maintaining a largely defensely, and if the IC are any indication, not too bright AI. Sharing percent actually might make it worse cause then you have an AI controlled hurtbox running around building up your percent.

 

[PSIGuy]

If they target the driver, you use a move where the Blade attacks instead? If Rex or Pyra is getting the snot beat out of them they SHOULD have less access to moves, that's the point. The upside is while in hitstun they still have access to moves at all - when Mario is being hit he can't do anything until you stop hitting him. It provides just as many opportunities for you as it does the opponent. Being able to move around as Rex to reposition during Blade Specials is a huge part of combat (to the extent that a weaponless Rex moves far faster). Chaining moves between them and using them to cover more ground would be a different take on the duo fighter than what already exists.
If you're worried about accruing too much damage, have Rex's armor act like Bowser Jr's clown car which takes less damage. If you're worried about them being too far away, then just use the bloody ether line between them as a 'tether' so they can never be so far apart that their AI breaks and they can't do moves. There's a lot you can do without just making him a reprise of Mii Swordfighter with a tether recovery.

They would hardly be the first DLC Smash character to have an overbearing mechanic, let alone one dependent on RNG.

 

[meleebrawler]

If they target the driver, you use a move where the Blade attacks instead? If Rex or Pyra is getting the snot beat out of them they SHOULD have less access to moves, that's the point. The upside is while in hitstun they still have access to moves at all - when Mario is being hit he can't do anything until you stop hitting him. It provides just as many opportunities for you as it does the opponent. Being able to move around as Rex to reposition during Blade Specials is a huge part of combat (to the extent that a weaponless Rex moves far faster). Chaining moves between them and using them to cover more ground would be a different take on the duo fighter than what already exists.
If you're worried about accruing too much damage, have Rex's armor act like Bowser Jr's clown car which takes less damage. If you're worried about them being too far away, then just use the bloody ether line between them as a 'tether' so they can never be so far apart that their AI breaks and they can't do moves. There's a lot you can do without just making him a reprise of Mii Swordfighter with a tether recovery.

They would hardly be the first DLC Smash character to have an overbearing mechanic, let alone one dependent on RNG.

You can't switch between Drivers and Blades if you're getting smacked around in the game proper (how exactly are they supposed to pass the weapon properly in this situation?). Assuming they both take damage at all times, you would have to preemptively switch before actually getting hit to actually be able to interfere with combos.

There's overbearing, and there's mechanics which do nothing except hinder the character. Pokemon Trainer ditched the lame stamina and type advantages and is all the better for it, and Zelda splitting off from Sheik ultimately let her patch holes in her gameplan.

 

[Arthur97]

If they target the driver, you use a move where the Blade attacks instead? If Rex or Pyra is getting the snot beat out of them they SHOULD have less access to moves, that's the point. The upside is while in hitstun they still have access to moves at all - when Mario is being hit he can't do anything until you stop hitting him. It provides just as many opportunities for you as it does the opponent. Being able to move around as Rex to reposition during Blade Specials is a huge part of combat (to the extent that a weaponless Rex moves far faster). Chaining moves between them and using them to cover more ground would be a different take on the duo fighter than what already exists.
If you're worried about accruing too much damage, have Rex's armor act like Bowser Jr's clown car which takes less damage. If you're worried about them being too far away, then just use the bloody ether line between them as a 'tether' so they can never be so far apart that their AI breaks and they can't do moves. There's a lot you can do without just making him a reprise of Mii Swordfighter with a tether recovery.

They would hardly be the first DLC Smash character to have an overbearing mechanic, let alone one dependent on RNG.

There's a far cry from being a Mii Swordfigher with a tether, and forcing an overbearing mechanic. Why do it? Why not do something more accurate that's less convoluted? Cause, remember, Pyra only uses the sword for the specials before throwing it back. You can do that just as well if not better with her being in the background. Blade switching alone should be able to keep them fresh. And having them literally bound together like that seems to be asking for jank. No wonder some people might think it's too hard to program all of them if you're all insisting on stuff like this. Pyra and Mythra don't have to actually be controllable. They probably won't be. Just cause the DLC let you wander around a bit as Mythra doesn't make that a core mechanic.

 

[PSIGuy]

You can't switch between Drivers and Blades if you're getting smacked around in the game proper (how exactly are they supposed to pass the weapon properly in this situation?). Assuming they both take damage at all times, you would have to preemptively switch before actually getting hit to actually be able to interfere with combos.

There's a far cry from being a Mii Swordfigher with a tether, and forcing an overbearing mechanic. Why do it? Why not do something more accurate that's less convoluted?

You're both overthinking it.
There's no "throw sword to other character" move.
They're not both playable as full characters with movesets.
YOU DON'T SWITCH BETWEEN THEM.
They have the sword as needed. Blades can regenerate/recall their weapons anyway! You're making up issues for no reason! Might as well ask "how will they breath in the space stages when only Rex has an air-proof suit" or something.

Imagine Rosalina being grabbed. Imagine being able to still have access to Luma and using a Special (because Luma handles all the specials) to break Rosalina out.
Now imagine someone beating on Luma - and you hit them with Rosalina.
That's literally all you have to imagine. Not only are you both making it needlessly obtuse, you're acting as if every DLC character don't have license to be more complex than base game characters. Steve required every stage in the game to be reworked but Luma 2.0 is too much? Have faith that if they're putting the character in game, they're willing to make them have depth without tearing the game apart at the seams. Ice Climber/Rosaluma style mechanics without being 1:1 to either of them is not too much to ask for.

In comparison, just having them in the background means you have Shulk, but with less to him (2 vs 5) and the half of the character with all the popularity (the girls) do literally nothing. Come on. I don't know what version of XB2 you guys played where Blade Specials come out once in a blue moon and otherwise the Blades are just on 100 feet away until you use one.

 

[fogbadge]

In the event that programming Rex with Pyra/Mythra doesn't seem feasible, Rex can be eliminated and Pyra/Mythra can be the sole fighter. That's my case. If Rex and Pyra/Mythra can be both programmed in as a singular fighter then I'll happily support Rex and Pyra/Mythra.

youre not answering the question. you said the smash team would happily leave him out, im asking why you think theyd be happy with it no why youre happy with it

 

[meleebrawler]

You're both overthinking it.
There's no "throw sword to other character" move.
They're not both playable as full characters with movesets.
YOU DON'T SWITCH BETWEEN THEM.
They have the sword as needed. Blades can regenerate/recall their weapons anyway! You're making up issues for no reason! Might as well ask "how will they breath in the space stages when only Rex has an air-proof suit" or something.

Imagine Rosalina being grabbed. Imagine being able to still have access to Luma and using a Special (because Luma handles all the specials) to break Rosalina out.
Now imagine someone beating on Luma - and you hit them with Rosalina.
That's literally all you have to imagine. Not only are you both making it needlessly obtuse, you're acting as if every DLC character don't have license to be more complex than base game characters. Steve required every stage in the game to be reworked but Luma 2.0 is too much? Have faith that if they're putting the character in game, they're willing to make them have depth without tearing the game apart at the seams. Ice Climber/Rosaluma style mechanics without being 1:1 to either of them is not too much to ask for.

In comparison, just having them in the background means you have Shulk, but with less to him (2 vs 5) and the half of the character with all the popularity (the girls) do literally nothing. Come on. I don't know what version of XB2 you guys played where Blade Specials come out once in a blue moon and otherwise the Blades are just on 100 feet away until you use one.

• "You don't switch between them"
• "They both have the sword as needed"

Explain to me how this isn't a contradiction.

Luma and Nana did used to be able to act while grabbing. People found that extremely annoying so they were explicitly nerfed to not be able to do so, because grabbing was effectively useless. Now they only do so incidentally.

Also, if they're both active participants that share damage, doesn't that mean they can take effectively double damage from being hit simultaneously? What would justify such a crippling drawback?

 

[PSIGuy]

The sword is a visual thing, it's irrelevant. When you hit B as Rosalina, Luma shoot star bits wherever it is. When you hit B as Rex, Pyra does their Neutral Special wherever she is. In the actual game, the sword has no problem teleporting huge distances because you started an attack in one place and then ran to the other side of the enemy with your increased movement speed. The upside of all this is that you can make combos that wouldn't be possible as any other character. While Pyra is stunlocking them with a flame pillar or spinny fire sword or whatever the hell you have her doing, you're maneuvering to be in position for a well-placed aerial the moment it ends. Luma and Nana not being able to act while grabbing isn't much different from tethers being totally removed, only to be reimplemented for DLC characters and Ivysaur. The flow of chaining auto-attacks into blade specials and the positioning opportunities it affords is what this moveset is going after.

If they're both being attacked, yes, that should be punishing to you and an incentive for your enemy. On the other hand, if they miss and only hit one of you, you have a safe punish and take less damage. If they individually take 75% damage, then hitting only one is a waste.

 

[Starlight Liger]

youre not answering the question. you said the smash team would happily leave him out, im asking why you think theyd be happy with it no why youre happy with it

Simple, because Pyra/Mythra is the face of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. I've already explained my reason as to why that's the case.

 

[fogbadge]

Simple, because Pyra/Mythra is the face of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. I've already explained my reason as to why that's the case.

if the smash team thought the same then why give us a rex costume and not a pyra or mythra one

 

[I.D.]

Rex isn't coming without Pyra/Mythra or viceversa.
Like who cares about cutscenes, the gameplay revolves around drivers and blades. The programming difficulties argument shouldn't even exist after Min Min and Steve.

 

[meleebrawler]

The sword is a visual thing, it's irrelevant. When you hit B as Rosalina, Luma shoot star bits wherever it is. When you hit B as Rex, Pyra does their Neutral Special wherever she is. In the actual game, the sword has no problem teleporting huge distances because you started an attack in one place and then ran to the other side of the enemy with your increased movement speed. The upside of all this is that you can make combos that wouldn't be possible as any other character. While Pyra is stunlocking them with a flame pillar or spinny fire sword or whatever the hell you have her doing, you're maneuvering to be in position for a well-placed aerial the moment it ends. Luma and Nana not being able to act while grabbing isn't much different from tethers being totally removed, only to be reimplemented for DLC characters and Ivysaur. The flow of chaining auto-attacks into blade specials and the positioning opportunities it affords is what this moveset is going after.

If they're both being attacked, yes, that should be punishing to you and an incentive for your enemy. On the other hand, if they miss and only hit one of you, you have a safe punish and take less damage. If they individually take 75% damage, then hitting only one is a waste.

Still doesn't change the fact Rex can't do anything except move around until his Blade finishes her move. In fact, although the driver's regular attacks and arts can be cancelled by other arts and Blade specials, said specials can't be interrupted by the player in any way. They're combo finishers, not starters, and any further capitalization requires outside help from other teammates.

We also shouldn't be too focused on the attacking parts on the character, when the other main feature of blades is the buffs they provide, both through the arts they use automatically and affinity. And Rex is fortunate enough to have two he can switch between freely, depending on which traits are more important at the moment.

 

[Nihilem]

Simple, because Pyra/Mythra is the face of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. I've already explained my reason as to why that's the case.

Well in the anniversary of Xenoblade Wallpaper it was Rex who was in the front next to Schulk and Elma. While Pyra&Mythra were in the back with the other supporting cast.

Nevertheless I dont think they will make Rex without Pyra, that would just be Schulk 2.0 with a hook and no monado. Nor will they make a Pyra/Mythra Combi without Rex.

So to put it short - when someone is cutted from the trio its Mythra

 

[Arthur97]

And I think Mythra being cut is unlikely as switching between them is likely to be the big thing.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

It's true Pyra and Mythra possess stronger influence across official XC2 media overall, as shown by them mascotting the OST album cover and Alrest Records artbook. This effectively makes them the KOS-MOS to Rex's Shion where they're more marketed than the game's own main protagonist. The difference between them and KOS-MOS however is that even though they too are weaponized artificial lifeforms who fight alongside their human awakener and draw power from a giant cross-shaped gate in space, they're also all about transferring that power to another character. And sure, Aegises don't have to follow the rules, but that privilege should be reserved for distinguishing oneself in a crowded field of similar characters -- not the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate roster which will only qualify as such if other Blades get there first.

 

[Nihilem]

And I think Mythra being cut is unlikely as switching between them is likely to be the big thing.

I doubt that. The same thing happened to joker where people were sure that switching between different personas is the identifying mechanic of joker. In the end we only got arsene.

Sure, Mythra is Story wise more important than any persona. But I have the feeling that Sakurai likes to keep things focussed. So my prediction is Rex&Pyra with focus on tag-team battle (like in the cutscenes of XC2)

 

[Arthur97]

I doubt that. The same thing happened to joker where people were sure that switching between different personas is the identifying mechanic of joker. In the end we only got arsene.

Sure, Mythra is Story wise more important than any persona. But I have the feeling that Sakurai likes to keep things focussed. So my prediction is Rex&Pyra with focus on tag-team battle (like in the cutscenes of XC2)

I don't know. Like you said, Mythra is far more important than some persona.

 

[Starlight Liger]

I doubt that. The same thing happened to joker where people were sure that switching between different personas is the identifying mechanic of joker. In the end we only got arsene.

Sure, Mythra is Story wise more important than any persona. But I have the feeling that Sakurai likes to keep things focussed. So my prediction is Rex&Pyra with focus on tag-team battle (like in the cutscenes of XC2)

I don't know. Like you said, Mythra is far more important than some persona.

Why not have a switching mechanic between Pyra and Mythra just like Shulk changing his Monado arts? that'll solve the issue of the starring Aegis.

 

[Arthur97]

Why not have a switching mechanic between Pyra and Mythra just like Shulk changing his Monado arts? that'll solve the issue of the starring Aegis.

Yeah, something like that, but permanent and not on a timer, though maybe add a cooldown before you can switch back. Or maybe not. Could be neat to see the potential with free switching.

 

[Nihilem]

Why not have a switching mechanic between Pyra and Mythra just like Shulk changing his Monado arts? that'll solve the issue of the starring Aegis.

Well they can do many things. I just habe the feeling that they wont. Unfortunately I cannot offer more to the discussion then my feelings.

When I compare the actual movesets of an character in comparision to fan speculation the final movesets feel much more focussed then the speculations which are normally full with additional mechanics. Best example is joker where people speculated about additional personas and „sleeping“ move to regenerate a power meter.

I could ofc be wrong, but I speculate that it will only be Rex&Pyra. With customs were Pyra has Mythras Colorscheme.....

 

[Arthur97]

Mythra is a bit more important than a minor mechanic. Ignoring the mechanics for a second, she's a pivotal character. Part of the package. It seems likely they'd try to bring in all three. If they can reprogram every pre existing stage in the game, surely they can add Mythra.

 

[Nihilem]

Well maybe they do something like steve and hero, where in one custom you run around with mythra and in another with pyra.

 

[Arthur97]

Or maybe they'll incorporate both considering how important Mythra is to the game. Why is it so hard to imagine they'd do both of them?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Or maybe they'll incorporate both considering how important Mythra is to the game. Why is it so hard to imagine they'd do both of them?

Because too many western Smash fans forget that Japan is all about workaholism, and Sakurai is just one example.

 

[meleebrawler]

I believe it's more of a hidden agenda of some people not liking one of the characters and trying to pass off their disdain as logical.

 

[Arthur97]

I believe it's more of a hidden agenda of some people not liking one of the characters and trying to pass off their disdain as logical.

Hmm, up until recently I think it's usually been Mythra though. The Aegis girls do seem pretty neck and neck popularity wise. All the more reason to put both.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I believe it's more of a hidden agenda of some people not liking one of the characters and trying to pass off their disdain as logical.

You just summed up Smash Speculation in one sentence.

 

[PSIGuy]

there's really not much point to adding Rex if the Blades don't factor into it in an interesting way and pyra/mythra are basically their own echo fighter. even if they weren't main characters who were popular and received more than 80% of the game's art, they'd be an easy way to have blade switching. can't see them not having both.

unless Sakurai goes REALLY Avantgarde and you start with the Rust Sword and have to roll core crystals to get blades during battle