Review my ruleset?

[TK Wolf]

I hope this is the right place to post this!

I'm hosting a somewhat causal tournament at my workplace, and was looking for feedback on this ruleset. None of us are regular tourney-goers, but we do still want a fair tourney that's fun to watch. Thanks so much for any input!

Format:
Double-elimination, best of 3 matches.
Each match is 1 vs 1, 3-stock, 8 minute limit, items and customs/equipment is off. (I don't have the means to set up customs, and ppl here don't use them. Considering 2-stock 6 min, but we're not strapped for time)
Players may change characters between matches, winner of previous match picks first.

Stage selection:
1st stage: Randomly picked from a set of "neutral" stages. (I would like to have FLSS, but am concerned that no-one will be familiar with it, and want to speed things along.)
2nd and 3rd stages: Picked by the loser of the previous match from "neutral" or "counterpick" stages.

Neutral stages:
Battlefield
Smashville
Town and City
Final Destination

Counterpick stages:
Delfino Plaza
Duck Hunt
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Skyloft
Wuhu Island (I don't like the random stage hazards and odd blast zones during some transitions... considering scrapping it)
Castle Siege
Kongo Jungle
Pokemon Stadium 2
(I wanna include WHZ, Mario Galaxy, and Wii Fit Studio, but they seem to be strongly disliked on the boards here. I thought with the removals of across-the-stage-chaingrabs, walkoffs weren't a problem?)

Controllers:
Any controller supported by the game is allowed, except for the WiiU gamepad.
We will provide gamecube and wiimote controllers, but strongly encourage players to bring their own, unless they are fine using controllers "as is".

Sudden-Death rules:
In the rare case of a match running out of time, winner is decided by the player with the most stocks remaining, followed by the lowest damage taken. If there is still a tie, an additional 2-minute 1-stock match will determine the winner.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

Since this is a more casual affair, this ruleset looks fine.

Concerning walk-offs, people in general are still iffy about putting them back into the competitive spotlight. Personally, if you're interested in using those stages, go ahead and use 'em. TO's usually have the final say in their rulesets, so not many people will argue with you.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Looks OK to me.

4 neutral stages (instead of 5) is iffy when normal stage-striking rules are used, but if it's random select then it doesn't really matter.

You could also consider allowing the winner to ban a stage or two after each game, but if you feel like that would be over-complicating things for your players then it's not a big deal.

The actual list of stages looks fine. I think TOs could stand to be a little more experimental with stages in general, and you say this is a more casual affair anyway.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Looks pretty solid to me
Hope everything goes smoothly

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Stage selection:
1st stage: Randomly picked from a set of "neutral" stages. (I would like to have FLSS, but am concerned that no-one will be familiar with it, and want to speed things along.)

There are ways to make people get this. I deal with a fairly constant stream of inexperienced and new players because the place we host the tournaments is home to a general gaming center and open to the public, and I deal with people who don't know what they're doing all the time. And I only have about 4 hours to get through a 24-man bracket.

Random select from the "neutral" stages really is just about the worst possible option, as the matchup can vary greatly from stage to stage. Random is awful for dealing with this. If you don't think you can handle FLSS, pull Lylat in as a 5th neutral (you should probably do this anyways) and strike 1-2-1. To help players understand this, make printouts - one printout that goes on each station and which has the rules written on it, and another printout which is basically just a list of your starters (or in my case, a list of all stages). Make an announcement at the start of the tournament and explain the concept as clearly as you can, and tell people if they have questions to come to you. Striking isn't so hard that nobody can wrap their head around it, and it really is worth the effort, as it helps make the first round more fair and less random.

Wuhu Island (I don't like the random stage hazards and odd blast zones during some transitions... considering scrapping it)

Random stage hazards? Wuhu has like, maybe three hazards, none of which are random and all of which are fairly telegraphed... You sure you didn't mean Halberd?

(I wanna include WHZ, Mario Galaxy, and Wii Fit Studio, but they seem to be strongly disliked on the boards here. I thought with the removals of across-the-stage-chaingrabs, walkoffs weren't a problem?)

If you're going to look at stages other than the "big 13", I'd start with Mario Circuit WiiU, which is a criminally underrepresented stage, and Kalos League, which is iffy but generally not bad once people know how it works. Windy Hill Zone has the old pictochat issue of "I'm recovering and a random hazard just kills me at zero" with the springs that show up randomly; beyond that, it's not awful. Permanent walkoffs, on the other hand, are problematic not just because of chaingrabs (although Shiek's fair strings cover about as much ground as Falco's CG used to in Brawl) but also because they centralize the game around camping the walkoff, and lower the skill cap immensely. This only applies to permanent walkoffs - temporary ones are a completely different beast.

I, probably more than the next guy, appreciate a big fat list of stages, and everything else seems pretty on point (I'm just gonna ignore customs for now; if your scene is new and rather casual then I understand not putting in the effort needed). That said, it's missing a thing or two. You should probably have a rule on how to handle non-time-out draws (this happens pretty much only with Bowser's sideB, I recommend just ruling that Bowser loses, as he either loses or ties depending on the stage), you should mention order when counterpicking and striking (game one: characters -> striking; rest: ban -> stage -> winner char -> loser char). Beyond that: not bad at all.

 

[TK Wolf]

Thanks for all the input and feedback! I'm down for the 5-starter stages with striking, but read a lot of complaints about Lylat, so I don't really know where to go with that.

I was considering letting winner ban 2 stages before selection... might add it in. I thought characters were supposed to be picked before stages all the time though, is that not right?

Random stage hazards? Wuhu has like, maybe three hazards, none of which are random and all of which are fairly telegraphed... You sure you didn't mean Halberd?

I meant the offstage hazards while flying that are difficult to see and turn a hit into a KO sometimes.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Thanks for all the input and feedback! I'm down for the 5-starter stages with striking, but read a lot of complaints about Lylat, so I don't really know where to go with that.

Everything wrong with Lylat was patched out in the last update. Any further complaints can be filed under "scrubs gonna scrub".

I was considering letting winner ban 2 stages before selection... might add it in. I thought characters were supposed to be picked before stages all the time though, is that not right?

Only round one. When counterpicking, allowing character pick before stage pick sets the opponent up for a double whammy counterpick which is not particularly nice.

I meant the offstage hazards while flying that are difficult to see and turn a hit into a KO sometimes.

Wuhu doesn't have those. Skyloft and Pilotwings do, but Wuhu is clear of those.

 

[TK Wolf]

Wuhu doesn't have those. Skyloft and Pilotwings do, but Wuhu is clear of those.

Oh my god I derped so hard... nevermind! :D

 

[Raijinken]

Yea, aside with disagreeing with no-customs and starter/counterpick stages on principle, the rest seems fine.

And as mentioned, you're the TO. What you say, goes. In fact, you may want (especially if you're not competing) to include a "The TO has the final say" rule in writing, just to bolster your authority to make calls in silly scenarios. Depending on how well you know the attendees, that clause can be a lifesaver.

 

[Jucchan]

Ignoring the stage list which I fundamentally disagree with you on (I'm almost Japan-level conservative when it comes to stages), it looks fine.
I have some questions though:
How are Miis handled? 1111 sets, customs, or banned?
How are Omega stages handled?

 

[TK Wolf]

Yea, aside with disagreeing with no-customs and starter/counterpick stages on principle, the rest seems fine.

And as mentioned, you're the TO. What you say, goes. In fact, you may want (especially if you're not competing) to include a "The TO has the final say" rule in writing, just to bolster your authority to make calls in silly scenarios. Depending on how well you know the attendees, that clause can be a lifesaver.

I'd be all for customs, but it's just not gonna fly in this environment. That and I don't have a way to unlock everything.
What stages would you recommend? Or do you mean you're in support of FLSS over starter/counterpick?
I'm gonna be entering, though there aren't prizes or anything. Just glory. ;D

 

[TK Wolf]

Ignoring the stage list which I fundamentally disagree with you on (I'm almost Japan-level conservative when it comes to stages), it looks fine.
I have some questions though:
How are Miis handled? 1111 sets, customs, or banned?
How are Omega stages handled?

Y'know, I actually haven't given the Miis enough thought. Given that almost no-one uses them I'm tempted to just ban them for simplicity, but that feels like a bad/unfair call to make. Any suggestions on that?
What's the conservative stage list look like?
No omegas, ppl can pick FD if they want. (Unless there's a compelling reason to allow them?)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Y'know, I actually haven't given the Miis enough thought. Given that almost no-one uses them I'm tempted to just ban them for simplicity, but that feels like a bad/unfair call to make. Any suggestions on that?
What's the conservative stage list look like?
No omegas, ppl can pick FD if they want. (Unless there's a compelling reason to allow them?)

Allow anyone to use any Mii. Customs are off, so equipment won't matter either way, and Miis can use all 12 of their customs regardless. But include in the rules that you cannot make your own Mii once the bracket has started - if the Mii you want to use is not already on the console you're playing on, you need to just build your Mii from one of the defaults on the console (making a Mii takes like 5 minutes and you don't want people doing that in the middle of your bracket). Banning 3 characters just for the sake of simplicity is not a good move to make. It takes under a minute to set up a Mii Fighter (as long as you're using a default Mii as the base).

The conservative stagelist varies greatly depending on the region, because it's based on a horribly subjective way of looking at the game. Some TOs think physics changes make a stage banworthy, some TOs think larger blastzones make a stage banworthy, some TOs think that stages moving or interacting at all makes them banworthy. It's based on a misguided conception that anything that doesn't fit the (incredibly arbitrary) "norm" is less competitive. Honestly, if you want a conservative stagelist, copy Evo's. Or don't, because Evo's is arbitrary, messy, and ignores 2-5 really solid stages.

As for Omegas, FD is fundamentally different from, say, Omega Duck Hunt. Some characters really like being able to walljump. I'd just make it so that people can counterpick any Omega, but that banning FD bans all omegas. Also, there's the issue of people with visual disabilities having issues on FD. I have a little rule where if one player objects, they go to Palutena's Omega instead, but that's more of a personal thing.

 

[Raijinken]

I'd be all for customs, but it's just not gonna fly in this environment. That and I don't have a way to unlock everything.
What stages would you recommend? Or do you mean you're in support of FLSS over starter/counterpick?
I'm gonna be entering, though there aren't prizes or anything. Just glory. ;D

Yea, I understand it from the unlocking stance easily. I'd highly recommend trying to find someone with all of 'em unlocked on a 3DS though, if there's general interest. The Custom Moveset Project makes things pretty smooth.
I'm a fan of FLSS, though I can also completely understand keeping that stage list pretty small (maybe as small as 7 for a entry-level tournament). In a few hours I'm going to be running 13 stage FLSS with my friends using:

Battlefield
Final Destination (and Omegas)
Duck Hunt
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Town and City
Pokemon Stadium 2
Kongo Jungle 64
Castle Siege
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Skyloft
Wuhu Island

And that's pared down from 15 (which included Mario Kart 8 and Kalos League) since there wasn't a particularly neat way to trade off strikes for that. The key thing is to reduce the randomness (including by not using Random). Another issue with using Random is that not all setups will necessarily be fully unlocked (I hope your situation is better, but I've seen a lot of big-name and small-name tournaments with setups without Pac Land unlocked due to Smash Tour being lame, and that prevents the use of Random Stage Selection). Going to a 5-7 full list to strike from, with 2-3 winner bans in followup rounds, is probably simple enough to teach and get some reasonable diversity without making it a long process.

For that matter, especially if it's primarily you + friends, I'm not sure how good your group is, but there's a good chance that "informed" stage striking may simply not happen. I was teaching some friends the system yesterday and it was interesting to see how, regardless of skill, stage knowledge is actually super lacking in my group. Maybe yours will be better, or this could be used to improve it.

As for Miis, I'd suggest (much as BPC did above) letting people make any Mii they want (using the guest miis if necessary) before starting, since it doesn't take long and even average-size Brawler is solid (wouldn't vouch for the other two at those specs, but I mostly play Brawler). Especially since they don't require Customizations on (otherwise I'd say go for Palutena, too).